MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[oceanblueeyes]

No, I have not heard about that Atlanta incident. Very frightening. Shocking that she ended up in the backseat with a loaded weapon. Someone dropped the ball there.

I know that many male cops call in a female to do some of the body searches when possible. They are nervous about false accusations. And it can look bad on a cell camera even if they are just going with protocol.

Maybe they didn't search as closely as possible because of those kinds of fears. I know a few officers locally that are having morale problems because of this backlash. They are worried about the public resistance that they are now seeing by local youth. Taunting, cussing, flipping them off. In the past that would not be overlooked. Now they are ignoring it because they do not want to get in a struggle and a bad situation for all involved. But I am afraid it is going to get ugly if it continues in that way. JMO

I bet you are right. It was two male officers so they probably put her in their vehicle until a female officer could arrive and do the body search. Both officers are lucky to be alive. I don't know what caliber gun she had but it made a huge hole in the glass when she shot at them. I think it happened this past Thursday or yesterday.

 

[katydid23]

The comments on here about who does all the shootings is what I am talking about.

But it is true statistically. Sad fact but true. Look at Chicago, Miami, Baltimore...Black gangs are responsible for the vast majority of the shootings.

 

[ohreally]

He was unresponsive at the 4th stop before the other passenger was put in the compartment--- nytimes.com

Stop No. 4Ms. Mosby said Officer Goodson was met here by Officers Nero, Miller and Porter. Sgt. Alicia D. White and Officers Porter and Goodson observed “Mr. Gray unresponsive on the floor,” Ms. Mosby said. Sergeant White spoke to the back of Mr. Gray’s head, and he did not respond. “Despite Mr. Gray’s seriously deteriorating medical condition, no medical assistance was rendered or summoned for Mr. Gray at that time by any officer,” Ms. Mosby said. The additional prisoner was loaded into the van on the opposite side. For the fifth time, according to Ms. Mosby, Officer Goodson failed to restrain Mr. Gray with a seatbelt. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...more-police-department-map-timeline.html?_r=0

And yet even with the other prisoners new story he gave on national tv he heard thumps for a short time from the other side of the divider. He may not of responded to the officers, but he was making banging noises after that time.

 

[Elley Mae]

Baltimore prosecutor's swift action, link to victim's lawyer raise questions

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...link-to-victim-lawyer-elected-official-raise/

The Maryland prosecutor who brought charges Friday against six Baltimore police officers within hours of receiving a medical examiner's report on the death of Freddie Gray is facing accusations that her swift action was over zealous and perhaps politically motivated.

 

[popsicle]

Exclusive look inside the Freddie Gray investigation
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...gray-investigation-20150502-story.html#page=1

 

[CARIIS]

I think the media doing all this will cops stop doing their jobs, is sorry, just moronic. They are suppossed to be professionials, they dont know everything either, but the notion that the SA is just gonna go with charging 6 cops cause of protests is kinda far fetched. If a cop refuses to do what he is expected to do after this , just like any other profession - fire him/her. Becasue a colleague has been indicted for doing illigal things does not translate to acting out and not doing what taxpayers are paying one to do.

As a society we obviously have a pattern of grave concern, as video after video has clearly shown - video does not lie. We have a problem, it is race related, all the videos (only the ones that make the news) are sickening. Humans being shot in the back , 25 feet away running the other way, etc etc.

It is a valid and real problem, and the really good thing here, is yes, cops might ponder a second longer before pumping lead into others - that is not neccesarily a bad thing, in fact kinda feel like its overdue, yes think before you just start shooting at people....

breaking necks and spines is a brutal, and viscious "event"- we must not forget that pretty intense stuff

 

[katydid23]

After everything that has gone on in the last 8 months with regards to police brutality do you really not see that there is a problem? That something has to change? What happens next time or the time after that?

IMO< it is a two way street. And I agree something has to change. But when I listened to the speeches just now in Baltimore I have little faith it will anytime soon. I don't see any of the locals taking any responsibility for their part in the mistrust. Cops are on edge in their hood because of the VIOLENCE surrounding them. There are a lot of violent armed robbers/drug dealers/gangbangers hanging out there. And these speakers seem to attribute ALL of the problems to the big mean bully officers. :no:

 

[kaen]

The witness says that he never said that. Thumps could have been him rolling side to side unconscious.

 

[CARIIS]

Baltimore prosecutor's swift action, link to victim's lawyer raise questions

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...link-to-victim-lawyer-elected-official-raise/

The Maryland prosecutor who brought charges Friday against six Baltimore police officers within hours of receiving a medical examiner's report on the death of Freddie Gray is facing accusations that her swift action was over zealous and perhaps politically motivated.

My take on the medical examiner report and subsequent quick action is clear - the medical examiner probably clearly stated that there was no indication that the injuries could d be caused by Gray himself. I think that is what we will find out then it just goes to common sense - necks and spines dont just snap ......so the next conclusion is..........

 

[katydid23]

I think the media doing all this will cops stop doing their jobs, is sorry, just moronic. They are suppossed to be professionials, they dont know everything either, but the notion that the SA is just gonna go with charging 6 cops cause of protests is kinda far fetched. If a cop refuses to do what he is expected to do after this , just like any other profession - fire him/her. Becasue a colleague has been indicted for doing illigal things does not translate to acting out and not doing what taxpayers are paying one to do.

As a society we obviously have a pattern of grave concern, as video after video has clearly shown - video does not lie. We have a problem, it is race related, all the videos (only the ones that make the news) are sickening. Humans being shot in the back , 25 feet away running the other way, etc etc.

It is a valid and real problem, and the really good thing here, is yes, cops might ponder a second longer before pumping lead into others - that is not neccesarily a bad thing, in fact kinda feel like its overdue, yes think before you just start shooting at people....

breaking necks and spines is a brutal, and viscious "event"- we must not forget that pretty intense stuff

You wan tto know what I find intense? The dozens of shooting this week in Baltimore. And it was not the cops doing the shooting. Maybe the gangs could 'ponder a second longer' before shooting.

 

[kaen]

Exclusive look inside the Freddie Gray investigation
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...gray-investigation-20150502-story.html#page=1

Incredible resources and dedication to recreate what happened to FG. Wow.

 

[DebinGA]

You wan tto know what I find intense? The dozens of shooting this week in Baltimore. And it was not the cops doing the shooting. Maybe the gangs could 'ponder a second longer' before shooting.

Nothing like changing MD law to allow the law-abiding to conceal carry to cause gangsters to do more "pondering" about shooting.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

After everything that has gone on in the last 8 months with regards to police brutality do you really not see that there is a problem? That something has to change? What happens next time or the time after that?

Which cases are you talking about? I certainly don't believe the MBs case had a thing to do with police brutality.

I know there are bad cops just like there are bad people in every profession. Those who abuse their power should be held accountable in a court of law BARD based on the evidence. But now it seems so many people have lumped all cops together which I find not only dangerous but deplorable.

Now every cop in our nation is having to pay for the sins of a very few. Their families worry each and everyday if it will be the last day they will see them. What about them? What about the good cops that are getting killed or shot just because they happen to be cops? Cops lives matter also. Its turned to madness. That closed mindset needs to change too. People need to stop holding up banners saying 'kill cops' or going around threatening 'no justice, no peace.' That is like trying to blackmail the justice system to give into someone's demands. Those who do this are no better than the bad cops they hate. The black people are always saying the white people judge them all the same yet they are doing exactly that by trying to paint every cop as bad. Why do they spit on, throw rocks, bottles, Molotov cocktails, at cops who have done absolutely nothing to them but just stand there and take their abuse? There is a lot of things that needs to change.

The honest truth according to Katy's link is 99.95% the arrests are successful without any incident. That gets lost in all the violent protesting drama.

How many people of all races are killed each year by police when there wasn't provocation compared to how many were murdered by those who weren't cops?

I have seen countless black people make videos on FB about all of this and they say that its not only the cops that needs to change but they must also change. And when they dare speak out they are bashed/trashed and ridiculed by their own race. Why is that?

IMO

 

[galiuro]

Gonna have a ton of applicants for all these cops after what's been going on there...

 

[galiuro]

IMO< it is a two way street. And I agree something has to change. But when I listened to the speeches just now in Baltimore I have little faith it will anytime soon. I don't see any of the locals taking any responsibility for their part in the mistrust. Cops are on edge in their hood because of the VIOLENCE surrounding them. There are a lot of violent armed robbers/drug dealers/gangbangers hanging out there. And these speakers seem to attribute ALL of the problems to the big mean bully officers. :no:

Too true.

 

[BirdycatNY]

That's what I am saying. Stop mixing it up. If you know it's not a color thing then what is with all this talk of statistics? Who cares? Get to the source of the damn problem and start to fix it. Stop spending trillions going to war and spend some money building peace. It's not rocket science folks.

That's what statistics are good for in getting to the root of Baltimore communities problems as far as determining who is more of a threat to law-abiding citizens in let's say Mr. Gray's neighborhood, LE related or criminal enterprise/criminal related homicides, and gangs/criminal enterprises are as diverse as the country so race isn't an issue, but gang related crimes are an issue in Baltimore. Allocating resources and time in proportion to issues is very efficient and likely more productive in resolving some community safety issues.

For example, according to the protests today: "Members of Crips, Bloods and Black Guerrilla Family gangs, who came together to help restore order after Monday's violence, appeared together on stage on Saturday to vow unity and said they would defend the black community." (http://news.yahoo.com/six-baltimore-officers-charged-death-gray-one-murder-004330690.html)

Now, I think it's likely that gang death brutality/homicides outweigh LE brutality/homicides in 2015 (there is a useful link showing 2015 homicides in last thread (http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/). This is what seems to delegitimize the protests for me...if peaceful protestors on the one hand are protesting LE brutality/homicides yet protests with criminal enterprises that commit more brutality/homicide in the neighborhood. Do you see the irony and hypocrisy in this? Someone please help me understand why criminal enterprises whose sole purpose is to exploit people through illegal drug trafficking, prostitution, human trafficking etc for monetary profit and murders etc would be welcome at a rally against brutality when gangs likely account for more murders than LE in that particular neighborhood. Jmo/ Why not protest both forms of brutality, what am I missing CoolJ?

 

[katydid23]

That's what statistics are good for in getting to the root of Baltimore communities problems as far as determining who is more of a threat to law-abiding citizens in let's say Mr. Gray's neighborhood, LE related or criminal enterprise/criminal related homicides, and gangs/criminal enterprises are as diverse as the country so race isn't an issue, but gang related crimes are.

For example, according the protests today: "Members of Crips, Bloods and Black Guerrilla Family gangs, who came together to help restore order after Monday's violence, appeared together on stage on Saturday to vow unity and said they would defend the black community." http://news.yahoo.com/six-baltimore-officers-charged-death-gray-one-murder-004330690.html

Now, I think it's likely that gang death brutality/homicides outweigh LE brutality/homicides in 2015 (there is a useful link showing 2015 homicides in last thread (http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/). This is what seems to delegitimize the protests for me...if peaceful protestors on the one hand are protesting LE brutality/homicides yet protests with criminal enterprises that commit more brutality/homicide in the neighborhood. Do you see the irony and hypocrisy in this? Someone please help me understand why criminal enterprises who's sole purpose is to exploit people through illegal drug trafficking, prostitution, human trafficking etc for monetary profit and murders etc would be welcome at a rally against brutality when gangs likely account for more murders than LE in that particular neighborhood. Jmo/ Why not protest both forms of brutality, what am I missing CoolJ?

THANK YOU. Very good post and some very good questions.

"Someone please help me understand why criminal enterprises who's sole purpose is to exploit people through illegal drug trafficking, prostitution, human trafficking etc for monetary profit and murders etc would be welcome at a rally against brutality when gangs likely account for more murders than LE in that particular neighborhood. "



YES. That^^^^^is a key question. It makes me sick every time I see a screen full of gangleaders, mugging for the cameras, professing their love of a peaceful community. Meanwhile, THEY are shooting up their community for the past decade. Selling dangerous drugs, pimping out young girls, doing violent home invasions...but NOW they are all about PEACE, Ya SURE.

 

[CARIIS]

That's what statistics are good for in getting to the root of Baltimore communities problems as far as determining who is more of a threat to law-abiding citizens in let's say Mr. Gray's neighborhood, LE related or criminal enterprise/criminal related homicides, and gangs/criminal enterprises are as diverse as the country so race isn't an issue, but gang related crimes are an issue in Baltimore. Allocating resources and time in proportion to issues is very efficient and likely more productive in resolving some community safety issues.

For example, according the protests today: "Members of Crips, Bloods and Black Guerrilla Family gangs, who came together to help restore order after Monday's violence, appeared together on stage on Saturday to vow unity and said they would defend the black community." (http://news.yahoo.com/six-baltimore-officers-charged-death-gray-one-murder-004330690.html)

Now, I think it's likely that gang death brutality/homicides outweigh LE brutality/homicides in 2015 (there is a useful link showing 2015 homicides in last thread (http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/). This is what seems to delegitimize the protests for me...if peaceful protestors on the one hand are protesting LE brutality/homicides yet protests with criminal enterprises that commit more brutality/homicide in the neighborhood. Do you see the irony and hypocrisy in this? Someone please help me understand why criminal enterprises who's sole purpose is to exploit people through illegal drug trafficking, prostitution, human trafficking etc for monetary profit and murders etc would be welcome at a rally against brutality when gangs likely account for more murders than LE in that particular neighborhood. Jmo/ Why not protest both forms of brutality, what am I missing CoolJ?

I think in these issues the potency of poverty and hopelessness gets lost. For the very poor, the looting is functionial in that it a opportunity to get some money. There is also a notion of the haves and the have nots. CVS, a cooperate giant was the first thing set on fire after the cars. There is "stuff" there - cooperate america, those that have.

Poverty is the core issue here, race comes into it because more africian americans tend to suffer in poverty. At its core poverty leads to helplesness, powerlessness. Jail is not a deterent, it is often a repreive - regualr food, structure, place to sleep , electric etc.

despair.....hopelesness.....no way out......nothing to lose...........dont care any longer......

 

[CARIIS]

For some reason, I have doubt about the heroin in his system deal. There would be no reason for that to not be clearly stated. If true why would they just not state the tox results?

[h=3]Urine[/h] Generally, heroin can show up on a urine test for as little as two and half hours or as much as two days, according to MedlinePlus. However, heavy users can fail a drug urine test for as long as seven days.
[h=3]Blood[/h] Blood tests are another way to detect drug use, but it's the least reliable. Many opiates, like heroin, leave a person's blood stream within 6 hours, according to a drug treatment center.

http://addiction.lovetoknow.com/wiki/How_Long_Does_Heroin_Stay_in_Your_System

 

[al66pine]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...feloniously-killed/felonious_topic_page_-2013


Weapons
"Of the officers killed in 2013, most (26) were killed with firearms. Of these, 18 were killed with handguns. (A breakdown of the types of weapons used in these slayings is provided in Table 27.)

• 2 officers had their weapons stolen.
• 6 officers fired their weapons; 3 officers attempted to use their weapons.
• 9 officers were slain with firearms when they were 0-5 feet from the offenders....."

Body armor

"In 2013, 19 of the officers feloniously killed were wearing body armor at the time of the incidents...."


Circumstances

• "6 officers died as a result of arrest situations.
• 5 officers were involved in ambush situations.
• 5 officers died as a result of investigating suspicious persons or circumstances.
• 4 officers who died had responded to disturbance calls.
• 4 officers were killed as a result of tactical situations (barricaded offender, hostage taking, high-risk entry, etc.).
• 2 officers were fatally injured during traffic pursuits or stops.
• 1 officer was conducting investigative activity (surveillance, search, interview, etc)."
  

FYI--
Other tables cover accidental deaths of LEOs; other tables for federal officers, etc.
Other tables present LEOs assaulted.