MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[Bravo]

I wonder if CVS will rebuild? They will probably be better served taking the insurance money and leaving the area. I also wonder if the Insurance Companies will sue the city for the Mayor not allowing LE and others to protect private property. Why should this cost the insurance companies? Of course many of the businesses weren't insured, the Governor said the state will be there to help them. So guess who's paying for that? This is so wrong on many levels.

It will be interesting to see if CVS rebuilds. Sad part is I read earlier (sorry no link) that the nearest Pharmacy was a mile away. So what do the Elderly and those who have no access to transportation do? At this point I would not be surprised if they don't rebuild. This has not even gone to Trial yet. If some of these "folks" are not happy with verdicts/lesser charges etc. it will get ugly. Again! Such a brilliant move to have your own community suffer further!!!!

 

[MissSunshine]

It will be interesting to see if CVS rebuilds. Sad part is I read earlier (sorry no link) that the nearest Pharmacy was a mile away. So what do the Elderly and those who have no access to transportation do? At this point I would not be surprised if they don't rebuild. This has not even gone to Trial yet. If some of these "folks" are not happy with verdicts/lesser charges etc. it will get ugly. Again! Such a brilliant move to have your own community suffer further!!!!

People in the affected areas who are having difficulty obtaining prescription medication should call 311 and ask that the Baltimore City Health Department help locate the nearest open pharmacy to have their prescriptions transferred. Medicine can be delivered to those with transportation issues or limited mobility.



The following pharmacies are closed until further notice:

** CVS at 2509 Pennsylvania Avenue

** CVS at 2560 West Franklin Street

** Rite Aid at 238 McMechen Street

** Rite Aid at 2043 Mondawmin Mall

** Rite Aid at 2497 Frederick Avenue

** Rite Aid at 3425 Clifton Avenue

** Rite Aid at 423 East North Avenue

** Rite Aid at 250 West Chase Street

** Rite Aid at 1521 Harford Avenue

** Rite Aid at 300 Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard

** Target at 3251 Tioga Parkway

** Keystone Pharmacy at 1358 W North Ave

** Breathe4Sure Pharmacy at 643 N. Carey Street

http://foxbaltimore.com/m/news/feat...y-destruction-and-violence.shtml#.VUaaoRDD_qA

While the CVS was the one they kept showing on the news, many more were completely destroyed. At least they are helping people get their meds.

 

[katydid23]

People in the affected areas who are having difficulty obtaining prescription medication should call 311 and ask that the Baltimore City Health Department help locate the nearest open pharmacy to have their prescriptions transferred. Medicine can be delivered to those with transportation issues or limited mobility.



The following pharmacies are closed until further notice:

** CVS at 2509 Pennsylvania Avenue

** CVS at 2560 West Franklin Street

** Rite Aid at 238 McMechen Street

** Rite Aid at 2043 Mondawmin Mall

** Rite Aid at 2497 Frederick Avenue

** Rite Aid at 3425 Clifton Avenue

** Rite Aid at 423 East North Avenue

** Rite Aid at 250 West Chase Street

** Rite Aid at 1521 Harford Avenue

** Rite Aid at 300 Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard

** Target at 3251 Tioga Parkway

** Keystone Pharmacy at 1358 W North Ave

** Breathe4Sure Pharmacy at 643 N. Carey Street

http://foxbaltimore.com/m/news/feat...y-destruction-and-violence.shtml#.VUaaoRDD_qA

While the CVS was the one they kept showing on the news, many more were completely destroyed. At least they are helping people get their meds.

I was shocked when I heard the Governor say today that 250 local business were lost! :sigh: That is a lot of lost jobs, lost revenue, lost wealth and services for the local community.
And the police presser said there were 18 shootings in Bmore since last Tuesday. So in the past 5 days= 18 shootings, NOT BY THE COPS.

It just seems so incongruous that people are dancing in the streets about this arrest of the 6 cops. And yet their neighborhood has taken a huge financial hit with serious implications and the gangs are shooting and killing like usual. :sigh:

 

[sorrell skye]

It matters IF, hypothetically speaking, he had screamed and yelled and asked for an EMT several times previously, and he was fine when he arrived at the station. It matters IF he had dragged his legs previously, and he was fine and able to walk with no problems. It matters IF he was never belted in and was fine when he arrived the previous dozen times. If those things were true, then the officers would have had reasons to believe that everything would be fine once again. JMO

At this point in time, it's only a rumor (which I believe is based on the interview with the hoodie-wearing, anonymous alleged cop who SillyBilly stated in a post upthread is not considered an MSM source).

Since there is no verifiable info at this point in in time regarding whether or not FG feigned illness or injury during his previous arrests, I won't take it as fact that he did.

Hypothetical scenarios are a dime a dozen. Unless they're based on solid info that can be corroborated by reliable sources, they're nothing more than baseless fiction, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

At this point in time, it's only a rumor (which I believe is based on the interview with the hoodie-wearing, anonymous alleged cop who SillyBilly stated in a post upthread is not considered an MSM source).

Since there is no verifiable info at this point in in time regarding whether or not FG feigned illness or injury during his previous arrests, I won't take it as fact that he did.

Hypothetical scenarios are a dime a dozen. Unless they're based on solid info that can be corroborated by reliable sources, they're nothing more than baseless fiction, IMO.

But it is true that he was arrested dozens of times previously. Do we think this is the very first time he objected loudly?

He apparently made it to the station safe and sound every other time. What happened this time to make it go so wrong? I think that is an important question to ask.

 

[Sonya610]

It will be interesting to see if CVS rebuilds.

I doubt if they will rebuild. That store was opened 20 years ago, I wonder what the neighborhood was like back then? Stores in bad areas not only risk being looted/burned/robbed but they often face a lot of loss due to theft (from customers and employees) and have to spend more on security and loss prevention.

Sadly a lot of the mom and pop stores in really rough areas can't buy insurance at all.

Most large chains look at the Cap Index (index of crime by area) when deciding where to open/build stores.

------------------------------------------
Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake has said that the community fought hard to get CVS to invest in these neighborhoods.

Both CVS stores were opened in the mid-1990s and are among the few options residents have for pharmacies and groceries, Castel said.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/30/news/companies/cvs-baltimore-riots-jobs/

 

[katydid23]

I doubt if they will rebuild. That store was opened 20 years ago, I wonder what the neighborhood was like back then? Store in bad areas not only risk being looted/burned but they often face a lot of loss due to theft.

Most large chains look at the Cap Index (index of crime by area) when deciding where to open stores.

------------------------------------------
Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake has said that the community fought hard to get CVS to invest in these neighborhoods.

Both CVS (CVS) stores were opened in the mid-1990s and are among the few options residents have for pharmacies and groceries, Castel said.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/30/news/companies/cvs-baltimore-riots-jobs/

My Insurance Adjuster friend said that CVS might not be allowed to rebuild upon advice from their insurance/legal team. I think there were more than one CVS that were damaged/closed in the area. Once they pay for the damages/loss and other costs they may decide it is not a viable investment. Thus CVS might not be able to get reasonable insurance to rebuild there. JMO

 

[galiuro]

Saturday is when people first started behaving badly, smashing up cop cars, smashing windows in businesses...

On Sunday I saw the IG posts about what was going to go down on Monday. By recommendation of LE, we closed early Monday. It started at like 2:30 Monday afternoon and the mayor didn't even address it until like 9:30 that evening. She set the curfew in place but said it wasn't going to take effect until Tuesday because she had to give people time to adhere to it or something along those lines.

There was time to stop my city from burning. I know who I blame for allowing it to happen.

Wow it escaped my notice that stuff actually started on Saturday...and they were already closing stuff on Monday? Okaaay....

 

[Bravo]

I was shocked when I heard the Governor say today that 250 local business were lost! :sigh: That is a lot of lost jobs, lost revenue, lost wealth and services for the local community.
And the police presser said there were 18 shootings in Bmore since last Tuesday. So in the past 5 days= 18 shootings, NOT BY THE COPS.

It just seems so incongruous that people are dancing in the streets about this arrest of the 6 cops. And yet their neighborhood has taken a huge financial hit with serious implications and the gangs are shooting and killing like usual. :sigh:

Agree. I didn't get the celebration. So much was lost.
ETA-nobody won here. Nobody

 

[sorrell skye]

But it is true that he was arrested dozens of times previously. Do we think this is the very first time he objected loudly?

He apparently made it to the station safe and sound every other time. What happened this time to make it go so wrong? I think that is an important question to ask.

None of us have any idea at this point if he "objected loudly" during his prior arrests. If there is video evidence, then I say let the defense attorneys bring it on, if any of them believe it might help to mitigate any of the officers conduct on April 12.

What happened this time to make it go so wrong? IDK. Perhaps it was being handcuffed behind his back, shackled at the ankles, and placed facedown in the back of the police van when he was experiencing medical distress, as his calls for help went unheeded by those who had the ability & power to call for the necessary aid. Perhaps something occurred during the transport that caused FG's fatal injuries. IDK.

All I know is that he suffered catastrophic injuries which led to his death. He was helpless in the back of the police van. He was unable to seek medical assistance for himself, while those who had the power to seek assistance failed to do so numerous times, until it was too late.

Despite FG's criminal record, despite FG's numerous prior arrests, he did not deserve to be treated in such an inhumane manner.

 

[bestill]

My Insurance Adjuster friend said that CVS might not be allowed to rebuild upon advice from their insurance/legal team. I think there were more than one CVS that were damaged/closed in the area. Once they pay for the damages/loss and other costs they may decide it is not a viable investment. Thus CVS might not be able to get reasonable insurance to rebuild there. JMO

My point exactly with my earlier post. Why should Insurance companies have to pay for this? Especially when the Mayor said "stand down". This is going to get nastier. She's in some deep doo, don't think she's not...

 

[kareylou]

I am coming out of lurkdom because I was away over the weekend and just checked back in on this thread. I have to express how disappointed I am. I thought Websleuths was a victim-friendly website. People on this thread are sleuthing the victim and sleuthing the victim's family. They are bringing all the most unflattering information about the victim and his family into the thread. I thought this was against the TOS. You may not feel that the Freddie Gray deserves the same treatment as other victims on this board, but who is to decide which cases will be the exceptions to the TOS? The moderators, I suppose, as they have decided this is acceptable in this case. I disagree, respectfully and with gratitude for all the work the moderators do here.

Posters are also bringing in all sorts of extraneous topics, such as the number of shootings taking place in Baltimore, and whether black people or white people carry weapons more frequently. There are soooooooooo many places on the internet where you can get into racial discussions. They never end well. In fact, they never end. IMO this thread is starting to resemble the comments section of the less reliable news sources, such as Daily Mail or Yahoo News. I fully expect that next time I check in it will resemble my bitter old uncle's Facebook page. Har har.

I am proud to live in a country where the rights and dignity of all persons are respected; it is written right in the Constitution and its amendments. I don't think that I have rights and Freddie Gray had rights; I think that we all have rights as Americans and whenever someone's rights are ignored and they are not treated with the dignity afforded by our Constitution, all of our rights have been violated. Freddie Gray was an American citizen and in our system of law, he had not yet done anything to surrender his rights.
The courts will decide whether these officers committed the crimes they have been charged with. The officers will be entitled to a vigorous defense, and a jury will decide their fate, along with the judge if there should be a sentencing. Freddie Gray deserved his day in court too. (Yes I know he had already had many days in court. It is pretty clear to me that he was an addict, with neurological issues from lead poisoning. But our Constitution does not say that you are entitled to a speedy trial and a vigorous defense UNLESS you are an addict, unless you have prior arrests, etc.) It is not up to us, the arresting officers, or the van driver to decide whether he deserved to live through an arrest.

I would like to say that I am proud of our country's ideals including equal treatment under the law, and I am proud of Websleuths for being the kind of place where rumor-mongering, victim-bashing, and devolving into the same tired political arguments are ordinarily not permitted. Everyone else has politicized this man's horrible death; maybe we could be the exception?

JMO of course.

 

[bestill]

I am coming out of lurkdom because I was away over the weekend and just checked back in on this thread. I have to express how disappointed I am. I thought Websleuths was a victim-friendly website. People on this thread are sleuthing the victim and sleuthing the victim's family. They are bringing all the most unflattering information about the victim and his family into the thread. I thought this was against the TOS. You may not feel that the Freddie Gray deserves the same treatment as other victims on this board, but who is to decide which cases will be the exceptions to the TOS? The moderators, I suppose, as they have decided this is acceptable in this case. I disagree, Posters are also bringing in all sorts of extraneous topics, such as the number of shootings taking place in Baltimore, and whether black people or white people carry weapons more frequently. There are soooooooooo many places on the internet where you can get into racial discussions. They never end well. In fact, they never end. IMO this thread is starting to resemble the comments section of the less reliable news sources, such as Daily Mail or Yahoo News. I fully expect that next time I check in it will resemble my bitter old uncle's Facebook page. Har har.

I am proud to live in a country where the rights and dignity of all persons are respected; it is written right in the Constitution and its amendments. I don't think that I have rights and Freddie Gray had rights; I think that we all have rights as Americans and whenever someone's rights are ignored and they are not treated with the dignity afforded by our Constitution, all of our rights have been violated. Freddie Gray was an American citizen and in our system of law, he had not yet done anything to surrender his rights.
The courts will decide whether these officers committed the crimes they have been charged with. The officers will be entitled to a vigorous defense, and a jury will decide their fate, along with the judge if there should be a sentencing. Freddie Gray deserved his day in court too. (Yes I know he had already had many days in court. It is pretty clear to me that he was an addict, with neurological issues from lead poisoning. But our Constitution does not say that you are entitled to a speedy trial and a vigorous defense UNLESS you are an addict, unless you have prior arrests, etc.)
I would just like to say that I am proud of our country's ideals including equal treatment under the law, and I am proud of Websleuths for being the kind of place where rumor-mongering, victim-bashing, and devolving into the same tired political arguments are ordinarily not permitted. Everyone else has politicized this man's death; could we be the exception? JMO

BBM...How do you know this? Maybe the victims in this case are LE too. I agree the court will decide, but if the decision doesn't go the way the protesters think it should, what will happen??

 

[sorrell skye]

I applaud you Kareylou. Thank you for coming out of lurkdom. Please don't hesitate to post your thoughts & opinions regarding this case.

 

[epiphany]

That's fine if the mayor is going to allow the police to police...but if she lets them 'stand down' again...

But what about the Police Commissioner?

The mayor, the mayor, the mayor, and I agree with many of the statements made here about the Mayor's lack of immediate response to the looting & burning, but I barely see a word critical of the PC of Baltimore.

IMO, the PC and the Mayor are in agreement on how things should have been handled, were handled and will be handled.

In Oakland:

In an interview looking back on his brief Oakland career, he commended his handling of the demonstrations, saying his department had worked with liaisons to the protesters and hung back to allow them as much free expression as possible.

“We allowed the protesters to start breaking into Foot Locker. They broke into Foot Locker and different places. But we had to do that because we didn’t want to look like this was a police action, where we were responding too soon,” Batts told Oakland North, a local news website.

<snip>

In Oakland, however, he struggled to satisfy a monitor and federal judge who were threatening a department takeover because of a lack of compliance with court-ordered reforms over the framing and beating of suspects.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-baltimore-police-chief-anthony-batts-20150427-story.html

 

[CuriousGuy]

BBM...How do you know this? Maybe the victims in this case are LE too. I agree the court will decide, but if the decision doesn't go the way the protesters think it should, what will happen??

Sadly bestill, I think we all know what will happen. One can only hope it is handled in a more expeditious manner.

 

[Bravo]

I am not into victim bashing either however if named in MSM either party is open for discussion. Same way one of the Officers named had some prior mental health issues. We are a discussion board and look at all angles. This case has opened dialogue on many issues. Yet many issues not discussed. What the truth is IMO remains to be seen. My only hope is the truth does come to light and justice for all. What angers me is how this has been handled. Mayor ignoring Governors calls. Charges announced before the task force completed their Investigation. Livelihood of honest hard working people lost as a result of rioters having free reign. Police having to stand down while "folks" antagonized them. Ignored curfew etc. etc. A poor community further destroyed? I don't get the celebration. Nothing has been gained compared to what has been lost.

 

[Bravo]

I applaud you Kareylou. Thank you for coming out of lurkdom. Please don't hesitate to post your thoughts & opinions regarding this case.

I do as well. All opines are welcome. Here.

 

[Rocco]

But it is true that he was arrested dozens of times previously. Do we think this is the very first time he objected loudly?

He apparently made it to the station safe and sound every other time. What happened this time to make it go so wrong? I think that is an important question to ask.

Maybe his legs hadn't been shackled before. If not, even with his hands in handcuffs, he could have used his feet and legs to brace himself if he was getting bounced around from not being seat belted before. But with his hands in handcuffs and his feet shackled, he was helpless as far as bracing himself from bouncing around this time. Just a thought.

 

[epiphany]

How the Feds Went Soft on Baltimore

The city's involvement in a Justice Department program shows the softer side of intervention

But unlike other cities that have come under investigation by the department&#8217;s Civil Rights Division after complaints of excessive force, Baltimore, found its way into a less-onerous and adversarial Justice program that emphasizes cooperative support for local law-enforcement agencies. In fact, Baltimore requested the intervention.

<snip>

The Baltimore police chief, Anthony W. Batts, had known Davis for years when he telephoned him last fall to ask for the COPS program&#8217;s help. The call came just days after the Baltimore Sun reported that the city had paid out $5.7 million in court judgments and settlements to resolve more than 100 police misconduct lawsuits since 2011.

http://time.com/3844411/baltimore-police-reform-justice-investigation/