MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[CoolJ]

Interesting. What point do you think it's missing?

I think the cartoonist got it exactly right. There are many layers of meaning there, not just the obvious, IMO.

I do think it is essential that we all nod our heads and agree with the meaning in that cartoon. There is nothing to disagree with there, IMO, unless one believes intentional destruction of 13 pharmacies, a 16 million dollar old folks home, dozens of city and privately owned vehicles destroyed, 16 police officers hospitalized from violent assaults, 250 local businesses destroyed, hundreds of fires, etc-- is "okay". How could any person on earth other than a rioting criminal, think that is okay? There is no level of poverty, no level of disenfranchisement, no level of frustration, no level of boredom, no level of "I'm poor and mad", for people living in one of the wealthiest nations on earth, that justifies and excuses what happened in Baltimore last Monday-- or in Ferguson a few months ago.

Something tells me that the desperately poor people of Nepal, digging out from a natural disaster, and mourning the loss of 7500 of their innocent citizens, would not burn their own cities down, even if they wished their lives were more prosperous.

The people of B'more did not burn their city down. The criminals of B'more took advantage of a situation and tore up a neighbourhood.

 

[Curious Guy]

Interesting. What point do you think it's missing?

I think the cartoonist got it exactly right. There are many layers of meaning there, not just the obvious, IMO.

I do think it is essential that we all nod our heads and agree with the meaning in that cartoon. There is nothing to disagree with there, IMO, unless one believes intentional destruction of 13 pharmacies, a 16 million dollar old folks home, dozens of city and privately owned vehicles destroyed, 16 police officers hospitalized from violent assaults, 250 local businesses destroyed, hundreds of fires, etc-- is "okay". How could any person on earth other than a rioting criminal, think that is okay? There is no level of poverty, no level of disenfranchisement, no level of frustration, no level of boredom, no level of "I'm poor and mad", for people living in one of the wealthiest nations on earth, that justifies and excuses what happened in Baltimore last Monday-- or in Ferguson a few months ago.

Something tells me that the desperately poor people of Nepal, digging out from a natural disaster, and mourning the loss of 7500 of their innocent citizens, would not burn their own cities down, even if they wished their lives were more prosperous.

Excellent post K_Z.

 

[SStarr33]

The people of B'more did not burn their city down. The criminals of B'more took advantage of a situation and tore up a neighbourhood.

The people of B'more did not burn their city down. The abused children of B'more took advantage of a situation and tore up a neighborhood.


FIFY

 

[K_Z]

Is this correct that there will be a GJ?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/02/freddie-grays-family-says-they-want-justice-in-his-death/

for some reason I thought she is bypassing that.

I read that there has to be a preliminary hearing/ probable cause hearing within 30 days of charging under the area that the prosecutor used to bring charges herself , and that isn't likely to happen, so the "punt" is to send it to a grand jury within that 30 days-- which will take weeks to hand off, and months to hear the case and decide. Many analysts feel Mosby's decision to bring charges was politically motivated, and that even she knows that the charges are excessive and likely not provable-- and that she knew it would have to go to a GJ all along. She was sacrificing the officer's due process, IMO, and grandstanding with those charges-- appealing to the rioters. All about her career and image (and her spouse's), and not at all about the law, IMO-- and in the opinion of many legal analysts who are opining all over the web.

There was also an article I read discussing whether all 6 will be tried together, or if they can be severed into separate trials. IDK how that will shake out.

 

[bettybaby00]

Is this correct that there will be a GJ?

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/02/freddie-grays-family-says-they-want-justice-in-his-death/

for some reason I thought she is bypassing that.

Answering without reading the link. Lol. I've read she has to either have a preliminary hearing of probable cause ( I think that's what it's called) befOre a judge or take it to a GJ.

This is why cynical side of me believes the charges from Friday were in part, theater. If a GJ or a judge doesn't bring about an indictment, it's "not her fault."

MOOOOOO

 

[dandy]

Just my opine, Nero & Miller. IIRC The bicycle cops, they have the least charges against them. jmo idk

thanks . . . i just would have hoped that they'd wait on w/out pay til the may 28? hearing.

edit - on the official docs - there's a 5/28 (should be 27) 1:30 p.m. on all of them

edit - this says 5/27: The charges announced by State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby on Friday are just the start of the legal process. The officers have been released on bond. Two are suspended with pay and four are suspended without pay. Court records show a preliminary hearing is scheduled May 27 in Baltimore District Court for Lt. Brian Rice, Sgt. Alicia White, and officers Caesar Goodson, Garrett Miller, Edward Nero and William Porter.

http://www.godanriver.com/news/nati...cle_bcd813af-226d-5b29-8c28-b4a28b9a0f9f.html

 

[Brightbird]

Interesting. What point do you think it's missing?

I think the cartoonist got it exactly right. There are many layers of meaning there, not just the obvious, IMO.

I do think it is essential that we all nod our heads and agree with the meaning in that cartoon. There is nothing to disagree with there, IMO, unless one believes intentional destruction of 13 pharmacies, a 16 million dollar old folks home, dozens of city and privately owned vehicles destroyed, 16 police officers hospitalized from violent assaults, 250 local businesses destroyed, hundreds of fires, etc-- is "okay". How could any person on earth other than a rioting criminal, think that is okay? There is no level of poverty, no level of disenfranchisement, no level of frustration, no level of boredom, no level of "I'm poor and mad", for people living in one of the wealthiest nations on earth, that justifies and excuses what happened in Baltimore last Monday-- or in Ferguson a few months ago.

Something tells me that the desperately poor people of Nepal, digging out from a natural disaster, and mourning the loss of 7500 of their innocent citizens, would not burn their own cities down, even if they wished their lives were more prosperous.

I think the cartoons/situations are incomparable. I doubt that most people in Nepal would give a rats behind what's happening in Baltimore, and I'd guess that those that do would have as mixed views as the rest of us. Trying to draw a parallel between the two is meaningless. I fail to see how it's essential to agree with the meaning in that cartoon.

 

[ShadyLady]

I think the cartoons/situations are incomparable. I doubt that most people in Nepal would give a rats behind what's happening in Baltimore, and I'd guess that those that do would have as mixed views as the rest of us. Trying to draw a parallel between the two is meaningless. I fail to see how it's essential to agree with the meaning in that cartoon.

Cartoons can do that...

 

[okmom23]

Here are my thoughts and being such are obviously JMO:
It seems to me that FG was known to BPD and more than likely known to these 6 officers who work this neighborhood; and being known to them I'm sure his behavior during previous encounters was definitely part of the LEOs thought process when determining the need/type of force used to make the arrest and in determining the need for medical assistance-after all SOMETIMES the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
In my line of work I sort of equate FG to the frequent flyers/drug seekers we encounter on a daily basis, at times it can become difficult to remain professional when you see this repetitive behavior that you may feel is a waste of your time/resources; but the 1 time you fail to act in an appropriate and professional manner you just might open yourself up to the medical equivalent of the FG events. I don't believe LEOs intnt was to brutally injure and certainly not to cause the death of FB, but will concede a "rough ride" may well have occurred. IMO see this entire event as 6 individuals who each MAY have failed to follow policy/procedure and the individual actions came to together to lead to FGs death. I certainly don't see this event as a premeditated conspiracy to kill FG. I definitely feel that these officers deserve to be punished but until I hear the entirety of evidence in regards to this event I am not so sure as to what the punishment should be.

 

[Peliman]

I'm one who just loves people who write job orders and aren't the one who has to enforce them.

I wouldn't get near some of these prisoners without a tranquilizer gun.

 

[DebinGA]

Census data shows Baltimore Co. is ~ 63%W-26%B, while Baltimore City is nearly the reverse. In GA and NC where I've lived and served on juries, grand jurors are pulled from throughout the county in which the crime occurred. I think that was true with the Ferguson gj too. Mosby better have some compelling facts if she expects a majority of jurors to true bill these serious charges.

http://www.city-data.com/county/Baltimore_County-MD.html

 

[Brightbird]

I'm one who just loves people who write job orders and aren't the one who has to enforce them.

I wouldn't get near some of these prisoners without a tranquilizer gun.

I'd probably feel the same about some people in authority i.e. not want to get near them. I tend to take these things individually.

 

[Peliman]

I'd probably feel the same about some people in authority i.e. not want to get near them. I tend to take these things individually.

As it should be, I'm having difficulty accepting seat belting ALL prisoners as a Holy Grail.

 

[mysteriew]

I read that there has to be a preliminary hearing/ probable cause hearing within 30 days of charging under the area that the prosecutor used to bring charges herself , and that isn't likely to happen, so the "punt" is to send it to a grand jury within that 30 days-- which will take weeks to hand off, and months to hear the case and decide. Many analysts feel Mosby's decision to bring charges was politically motivated, and that even she knows that the charges are excessive and likely not provable-- and that she knew it would have to go to a GJ all along. She was sacrificing the officer's due process, IMO, and grandstanding with those charges-- appealing to the rioters. All about her career and image (and her spouse's), and not at all about the law, IMO-- and in the opinion of many legal analysts who are opining all over the web.

There was also an article I read discussing whether all 6 will be tried together, or if they can be severed into separate trials. IDK how that will shake out.

I read that the advantage of a GJ hearing is of course the fact that it is secret. If they hold a preliminary hearing then in open public court the state's attorney has to lay out the case before the judge. And in doing so the SA more or less shows her theory of the crime and her trial strategy. Which supposedly gives the defense an advantage.

 

[K_Z]

The people of B'more did not burn their city down. The criminals of B'more took advantage of a situation and tore up a neighbourhood.

WAIT! Do I hear you agreeing that criminals are not "the people?" That the criminals are not citizens of Baltimore? That criminals are in a SEPARATE category from people and regular citizens?

Because the Mayor herself made that distinction, before she decided that the "t-word" didn't brief well with the disgruntled masses in her constituency. Lol, now "they" are just "misguided" young people, who are "frustrated", and need to "express themselves", and "want to be heard".

The other "they"-- the ones who run legal tax-paying businesses, and the law abiding "they", don't really matter. That group of "they" should just tolerate the other "they" burning down their neighborhood, and keep quiet about it, right?

Oh, attention "they": the city will send a health department runner out to your door with medicine, since all the pharmacies in about a dozen block area are completely destroyed by the other "they" group of your fellow citizens. Thanks, "other group of they" for your patience, while the health department locates a pharmacy to fill your meds, and a runner who is willing to go into your destroyed, dangerous neighborhood to bring your disabled home-bound grandma her heart pills. We, the city managers of Baltimore, appreciate your patience. Our young people just needed to be heard, dontcha know. They are the FUTURE of this city! Were you listening? Cause that group of "they" just might need to be "heard" again. Soon. And I doubt it will be at the voting precincts. Give them some room, people-- room to destroy!

 

[mysteriew]

Sorry I have been away over the weekend. Has the autopsy come out?

 

[Elley Mae]

That's either very sad or very shocking, or both. I cannot think of one small town, let alone city, in Australia where I would presume that about people. Most urban/country people here, and perhaps even remote communities, I think they would have a good idea where Nepal is.

Here's one on the first amendment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5GaAQ8g4gg

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/my-baltimore-business-problem-1430688970

Why businesses are fleeing Baltimore.

 

[K_Z]

Sorry I have been away over the weekend. Has the autopsy come out?

Nope. It'll be months, my prediction.

 

[CoolJ]

WAIT! Do I hear you agreeing that criminals are not "the people?" That the criminals are not citizens of Baltimore? That criminals are in a SEPARATE category from people and regular citizens?

Because the Mayor herself made that distinction, before she decided that the "t-word" didn't brief well with the disgruntled masses in her constituency. Lol, now "they" are just "misguided" young people, who are "frustrated", and need to "express themselves", and "want to be heard".

The other "they"-- the ones who run legal tax-paying businesses, and the law abiding "they", don't really matter. That group of "they" should just tolerate the other "they" burning down their neighborhood, and keep quiet about it, right?

Oh, attention "they": the city will send a health department runner out to your door with medicine, since all the pharmacies in about a dozen block area are completely destroyed by the other "they" group of your fellow citizens. Thanks, "other group of they" for your patience, while the health department locates a pharmacy to fill your meds, and a runner who is willing to go into your destroyed, dangerous neighborhood to bring your disabled home-bound grandma her heart pills. We, the city managers of Baltimore, appreciate your patience. Our young people just needed to be heard, dontcha know. They are the FUTURE of this city! Were you listening? Cause that group of "they" just might need to be "heard" again. Soon. And I doubt it will be at the voting precincts. Give them some room, people-- room to destroy!

When you are speaking of burning a city down, yes, you separate the criminals from the law abiding citizens. Categorizing people by their ACTIONS makes sense. Categorizing people by the color of their skin or the $$ in their bank accounts is discriminating.