Deceased/Not Found MD - Heather Grogg, 33, & Danielle Tyler, 18, Carroll Co, 6 Apr 2020 *arrest*

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All of this is so upsetting to me. I haven't been able to sleep for days after the news of DT and HG were murdered was in the news. I never gave up hope that they would be found safe and got to come home. I prayed every night for the safety of those girls. I can't even begin to know how family and friends of the loved ones feel that were murdered. I can't believe how many lives will forever be changed. And for what reason or reasons? All of this comes down to:
IF MM WOULD HAVE SERVED HIS FULL AMOUNT OF TIME HE WAS GIVEN. Would we be here texting about these terrible crimes and loss of lives?
Things need to change. But I am just one person with a little voice. Things won't change and as time goes by there will be more cases just like this one.


Just my thoughts opinions.
 
RSBM

I originally guessed meth not because of the way any of these characters look or the things they did, my guess was just based on reading about that motorcycle gang. They cook and sell a lot of meth from what I found.
My thought was meth also, and like you it's not related to their appearance.

Meth users experience paranoia like no other drug, and exhibit very little self control. They were very sloppy in the cover-up of the original murder, and eliminating some witnesses considered to be the weak link is just over the top. I have to believe some of this behavior is drug-induced.
 
Seems a lot of people were offended by the comment I made about MM's Dad.. I apologize.. there was no intent on implying he had anything to do with what MM did, I just wanted to give a possible connection that I heard. As I said I have no proof..

With that being said.. the Pagan Motorcycle Gang are not all terrible people or bad guys.. some of them live absolutely normal, law abiding lives and don't do these kinds of things. Back in the day they were extremely violent but these days they are for the most part quiet.. but you also have some terribly twisted individuals that belong as well.

I apologize.. I'm sure his parents are hurting just as much just trying to process everything their son did. I have a son and I couldn't imagine.


I wasnt offended! Sorry if it came off that way I was more shocked...but your 100% right not all pagens live the criminal life, so in that case I could see that...i was just basing my notion of their family based on social media and word around town/ them owning a buisness ...seemingly upstanding members of society. I can't imagine what they are going through right now, westminster is not big so they not only know of the victims family but are also one of the killers parents. The whole situation is just horribly tragic... Anyways sorry for coming off rude, not at all my intention!!!
 
Thank you for being so candid about your past drug addiction. I commend you for being in recovery!! To me, I agree they have the feel of meth addicts or heron or pills. The first two are cheaper than pills. And to think of it, it’s easier for them to make Meth out there than travel for others.

Im still stuck on why they killed JR. I still can’t imagine that 9 people agree to and watch him be murdered. I have a horrible idea and would hate to say it out loud since he has passed. I don’t want to put that on his name.



I agree with @Knox websleuths is all about speculation and theories! Please share your thoughts on a possible motive for killing of JR -we understand your not defaming anyones name or reputation, just posting possiblities for a motive in this seemingly senseless murder!
 
Theories are what we are all about here at WS. I'm curious what you think, and feel you could very tactfully express your idea.
I agree with @Knox websleuths is all about speculation and theories! Please share your thoughts on a possible motive for killing of JR -we understand your not defaming anyones name or reputation, just posting possiblities for a motive in this seemingly senseless murder!
My thought was meth also, and like you it's not related to their appearance.

Meth users experience paranoia like no other drug, and exhibit very little self control. They were very sloppy in the cover-up of the original murder, and eliminating some witnesses considered to be the weak link is just over the top. I have to believe some of this behavior is drug-induced.

This is a thought only and many variables can change the possibility.

IF it is meth the murder can make more sense due to paranoia.

if we exclude drugs since they aren’t mentioned anywhere in any articles or even online...this is also guessing HG was home babysitting while the group was at the party and called over JR. ... The only reason I can see a group agreeing to killing someone is if he did something to the children. If they got home and saw or thought he had done something sexual to the kids, I can see a large group agreeing to beating him up, even stabbing him, and maybe even killing him.

or second maybe hurting HG. remember he did have many peace orders against him. Nothing else makes sense to me.

But now that I’m thinking of it, didn’t an article say all of them, including HG, rode in 2 cars back to WV? So who would have stayed with the kids? There are too many unknowns


Side note: I also don’t understand why HGs sister would talk badly about DS As if she didn’t know him well when he was the God father to her kid. I’m not convinced she wasn’t involved with knowing the party or knew his background and violent life.
 
In MSM regarding JR
His wife of 2 years and friends of the same circle year's before they were married. Has had nothing but praise regarding her husband JR.

She notes he was wonderful family man whom loved his step children, nieces and nephews. JR wanted to have a career in firefighting. They even went on a cruise not long ago.

I think we need to find the link to HG and JR.
MM and his goons could of been looking to insert violence on someone.
Seems they knew he would be murdered when they arrived at DS's home.
Or this could of been a planned execution. Ordered by someone.
Payment could of been drugs, promised money or make believe gang hogwash all by MM.

Why would they kill HG and DT. ?
I see DS did DT in and had someone kill HG. How could you know the babysitter of your children was going to be murdered, you were known to her sister and not stop it. Both of these victims thought they were going to safety.
It makes me sick!!!
 
This is a thought only and many variables can change the possibility.

IF it is meth the murder can make more sense due to paranoia.

if we exclude drugs since they aren’t mentioned anywhere in any articles or even online...this is also guessing HG was home babysitting while the group was at the party and called over JR. ... The only reason I can see a group agreeing to killing someone is if he did something to the children. If they got home and saw or thought he had done something sexual to the kids, I can see a large group agreeing to beating him up, even stabbing him, and maybe even killing him.

or second maybe hurting HG. remember he did have many peace orders against him. Nothing else makes sense to me.

But now that I’m thinking of it, didn’t an article say all of them, including HG, rode in 2 cars back to WV? So who would have stayed with the kids? There are too many unknowns


Side note: I also don’t understand why HGs sister would talk badly about DS As if she didn’t know him well when he was the God father to her kid. I’m not convinced she wasn’t involved with knowing the party or knew his background and violent life.


I'm interested in finding out if JR & HG were present @ the biker party... One MSM recent article states both girls were at the biker party --- however it didnt mention JR being at the biker party--- but an article from mid April states that the informant told police, JR was going to meet HG at DS/ERD apartment, and that later, DS, ERD, MM, DT, JB, (presumably AusB & 2 unnamed minors) came from the biker party back to DS and ERDs apt, and at somepoint a fight occurred between JR & MM & then DS stabs JR....

So thats conflicting and is kind of a major aspect in this crime, if HG was @ the apt babysitting, it would make sense DS and ERD were partying in WV, in that case I guess JR could possibly have done something at that apt which had the 2 girl children, HG and JR --- what happened idk? I haven't heard anything alluding to JR being a predator, but with drugs like meth, ppl can turn into monsters...even without drugs...

Another possibility is HG told the 'crew' at the biker party JR was at the apt, due to some past issue, possibly drugs or money, who knows, but the boys could have left the party in order to kill JR, I must agree it's odd so many young ppl with no apparent motive would participate in the murder & disposal of JR...

The deaths of HG & DT, seem pretty obvious, in MSM article Det. Holz stated that JB confided in DT while they were on the road in rippon where they disposed of JR, JB told DT that he helped kill JR and was one of the ones who delt a final blow, however JBs lawyer is trying to fight it saying JR was dead at the apt,,,, having these girls dead was a better option to these evil ppl then them possibly telling. But due to the overall stupidity they only made the situation worse, involving even more witnesses & killers.


I think its sad to see how cold DS, ERD, MM are...to be able to knowingly betray someone they were close too, who literally you trusted with your kids (HG lived and trusted DS & ERD....& young 18 yr old DT who was crushed by her long time ex boyfriend for cheating, she found solace in MM and he had no problem ordering them both dead.., it shows how little balls they have because DS & ERD likely couldnt kill HG so they did DT and MM and JS had no issue killing HG... And all because they were scared they would talk, and all get caught... Well shocker now they are caught and 2 more ppl dead all over what??

I agree we need to find out why JR was with HG, what happened and why they chose the option of killing him, even with babies sleeping in the same apt (the babies were at home when their mom and dad ERD /DS killed someone in the living room.....)
 
But now that I’m thinking of it, didn’t an article say all of them, including HG, rode in 2 cars back to WV? So who would have stayed with the kids?
RSBM

I think ERD and maybe DS stayed in Westminster with the kids. I don't know that for sure but the article someone posted yesterday says MM, JB, HG, DT, 2 juveniles, and of course JR were in the 2 cars but came back in 1 car. I don't think they had room for ERD or maybe even DS on that trip back to WV.
 
This is a thought only and many variables can change the possibility.

IF it is meth the murder can make more sense due to paranoia.

if we exclude drugs since they aren’t mentioned anywhere in any articles or even online...this is also guessing HG was home babysitting while the group was at the party and called over JR. ... The only reason I can see a group agreeing to killing someone is if he did something to the children. If they got home and saw or thought he had done something sexual to the kids, I can see a large group agreeing to beating him up, even stabbing him, and maybe even killing him.

or second maybe hurting HG. remember he did have many peace orders against him. Nothing else makes sense to me.

But now that I’m thinking of it, didn’t an article say all of them, including HG, rode in 2 cars back to WV? So who would have stayed with the kids? There are too many unknowns


Side note: I also don’t understand why HGs sister would talk badly about DS As if she didn’t know him well when he was the God father to her kid. I’m not convinced she wasn’t involved with knowing the party or knew his background and violent life.



Also to answer you question about HG riding in car to dump JR body---

Weather or not HG was at the biker party is still a bit cloudy due to conflicting MSM articles (unless one of you guys have info on that?))

But I do know MSM confirmed that HG & DT along with MM,JB,DS, 2 unnamed minors (1 MMs relative) & (possibly AusB? Possibly no confirmation yet..) All drove in 2 vehicles from the apt in westminster to WV to dispose of JRs body/finish killing him... It said 1 vehicle was JRs and was torched...1 vehicle belonged to a relative of MM (the Malibu that was found 2 days after JR was found...MM was with the car..but not arrested...yet another chance for LE to step in and possibly save DT & HGs life....)

So during the disposal of JR body its my thought ERD stayed back at the apt with her 2 daughters. Idk why those who went did?
 
Why did they bring so many people to Rippon? What was the point of driving HG and DT all the way to Rippon?

Why were the 2 juveniles out all night on a weekday? I know schools are closed, but moms and dads usually keep track of their kids.
 
Jeff Smith is in North Central Regional Jail in WV. Only 1.8 stars on Google reviews.

If you are keeping score:
DS is at Potomac Highlands Regional Jail
JB is at Eastern Regional Jail
MM is at Tygart Valley Regional Jail
ERD is at Eastern Regional Jail

LE is keeping them separate to make them paranoid about the others snitching?
 
Why did they bring so many people to Rippon? What was the point of driving HG and DT all the way to Rippon?

Why were the 2 juveniles out all night on a weekday? I know schools are closed, but moms and dads usually keep track of their kids.


It said one of the juveniles is related to MM, so I wonder how old these minors are, are the 17? 16? Why are the being protected...? It would seem they participated, at least after the fact..in burning out the car & getting the gas to burn it out... I truly hope these arnt some 13 year olds !!!-!!

Maybe due to be releated to MM the one kids parents didnt think it odd that the kid did not come home? I wonder where MM was staying after his first release from prison in Jan 2020? According to early MSM, MM had checked in with his parole officer up until like a few days/ a week before the murder of JR. How did his parole officer not know he was partying and hanging out with other known felons? ( DS, JB, JS, MM all have criminal backgrounds spanning at least a few years) I find it odd MM gets released from prison in Jan 2020 & is not breaking laws, he was obviously partying within days of a his last check in , how did he pass drug tests? Likely, they only contacted him a few times and didnt follow up with him or whoever he was living with otherwise they would have known he was staying at DS and ERDs apt at least a chunk of the time, (according to DTs grandma saying that MM and DT would often spends nights away at that apt or other places) if the parole officer was doing a thorough job MM could have been detected and violated before he got the chance to encite all this killing....


As for So many in the car, I believe I saw somewhere like 6 rode in the Malibu on the way back, in that case idk if DS was present..,and I would doubt AusB would have gone too seeing as only 6 came back....
 
Det. Holz stated that JB confided in DT while they were on the road in rippon where they disposed of JR, JB told DT that he helped kill JR and was one of the ones who delt a final blow, however JBs lawyer is trying to fight it saying JR was dead at the apt,,,,
RSBM

I agree, JB's defense is that he didn't stab anybody at the apartment and his attorney claims JB did not take part in whatever happened in Rippon other than being there by the car, claiming he didn't go into the woods. Someone told the detective that JB told DT he was in on the final stabbing. If it was only DT saying that she can't confirm or deny it anymore. I get the feeling JB will do time for something less serious than 1st degree murder if he cooperates with police.
 
I would like to know why the blood stain found inside the door frame of MM Malibu has not yet been analyzed? This was stated in the article that came out yesterday. If that turns up to be JR. Would that not been enough evidence to bring him in for more questions. If not arrest him. That may have made all the difference in the lives of DT and HG.

Rippon killing occurred after biker gang party
 
In MSM regarding JR
His wife of 2 years and friends of the same circle year's before they were married. Has had nothing but praise regarding her husband JR.

She notes he was wonderful family man whom loved his step children, nieces and nephews. JR wanted to have a career in firefighting. They even went on a cruise not long ago.

I think we need to find the link to HG and JR.
MM and his goons could of been looking to insert violence on someone.
Seems they knew he would be murdered when they arrived at DS's home.
Or this could of been a planned execution. Ordered by someone.
Payment could of been drugs, promised money or make believe gang hogwash all by MM.

Why would they kill HG and DT. ?
I see DS did DT in and had someone kill HG. How could you know the babysitter of your children was going to be murdered, you were known to her sister and not stop it. Both of these victims thought they were going to safety.
It makes me sick!!!

Regarding your comment of nothing but good things being said about JR: when people deal with grief, they deal with it in many way. Some romanticize and idolize the person. It is a way to deal with trauma, death and guilt. Here’s an article about it Grief Mythology: Mourning Can Create Alternate Realities - GoodTherapy.org Therapy Blog

my main concern with him are all of the peace orders. That is not normal. And MD doesn’t hand out those without proof. They aren’t easy to file against someone.

HG and JR are known friends, running in a rough crowd. Him going back to that with HG at night possibly to a trailer party (I do not believe it was a pagan party) shows the “changed man” idolization is false.
MOO
 
Why were the 2 juveniles out all night on a weekday? I know schools are closed, but moms and dads usually keep track of their kids.

Just a thought - maybe one of the juveniles was the child of someone in the group?

As for the other juvenile, who is alleged to be a relative of MM, the parents may have thought they were somewhere else in a safe environment. Possibly a friend's house, or even with MM, just not getting into trouble.

MOO
 
It's super up. It went from a stabbing, to a murder, and ending in a double murder coverup. ALL OVER A DRUGS.

All these lives ruined. All the parents dreams for their child's future crushed. On all sides. These individuals were selfish, sick, and deeply disturbed. Not one more than the other. MM, DS, JB, & JS may have been the ones hands on, but the rest are just as guilty. At any point they could've stopped. I don't want to hear anyone was scared, or they needed to show loyalty. Forget all that . All these people involved, and not one had a single regard for human life.
 
I'm posting in regards to what drugs these ppl could be on :

As I posted in a previous page, I personally have lived that drug life, my main drug of choice was heroin, I always had that, but I also used meth quite a bit, now ofcourse your right meth does usually cause noticeable picking scratching ECT. But in the 5 years I would use meth close to every day (smoking) I didnt ever have anything on by face or really anything that would make someone think I was on meth... Now that could be due to the heroin use,. But I'm thinking it more has to do with how long and often someone uses it as well as route of ingestion. Shooting up meth is 100% different and more intense then smoking it, the ppl who you see who have mental breaks from meth use usually happen after long term IV use.. As for opioids, you likely wouldn't be able to tell until they hit bottom & are homeless with a sign. From the drugs that are most commonly used in that area I would venture to guess they all 'party' im thinking they do pills, maybe they get dope from Baltimore...but I do believe meth is one of the drugs these ppl were using...trust me I don't look like I ever did meth...i have my teeth, no scratches, etc. But like I said I only used it by smoking and for only 5 years which is relatively short time period in the overall scheme of things.!

BBM. Thank you for stating this. I was actually trying to find a source to back up a reply I was gonna make about meth users and their looks (sores and meth mouth) but could not find anything. I was going to state that not all meth users have these physical effects bc I actually know someone that I found out uses but I couldn't tell by their appearance. May be because they did not use long or often, I have no idea. I was actually pretty shocked!
 

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