MD MD - Sr. Catherine Cesnik, 26, Baltimore, 7 Nov 1969 "The Keepers"

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I think the timing of the initial flurry of reports of abuse at Keough occurred in about 1992. The "Satanic Panic" era was in full swing but the primary impact was not the bizarre allegations of Satanic Rituals and Day Care Centers involved in child sexual abuse but rather, the thousands of young adults, usually but not always women, who claimed that they had been abused by their fathers or other men they had contact with as children and they had no recollection of this abuse until those memories were either spontaneously recovered or, more likely, with the help of a Therapist specializing in Recovered Memories.

It was very common for someone to see a Psychologist about problems or general dissatisfaction they were experiencing in their lives and " Discover" that it was all caused by abuse they had suffered as a child. Fathers, relatives, neighbors, teachers clergymen etc. found themselves accused of heinous crimes committed years before with no way to defend themselves.

The public became very willing to believe these accusations and the Therapy Professionals who were uncovering these memories became heroes and saw their practices flourish. States enacted laws to override Statutes of Limitations that had limited prosecutions of these cases. Men ( it was mostly men ) went to prison, lost their families and their livelihoods or otherwise had their lives ruined.

By 1993 or '94, the tide began to turn. Men who had been accused went public with their denials and the Science of Recovered Memories was called into question. People who had made accusations of sexual abuse were now coming forward with claims that Therapists had manipulated them and planted False Memories. The term "False Memory Syndrome" entered the lexicon.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists who had been leaders in their professions were now losing their credentials and being sued to the limits of their malpractice limits. Juries began acquitting defendants who had recovered memories used as evidence and suddenly, "victims" coming forward with claims of past abuse were looked upon with skepticism if not written off completely as "nut cases".

One thing that did come out of the era was the acceptance that sexual abuse did occurs. People came to realize that bad things happened and even Priests were capable of horrible thing. What also came out is that people were capable of making false accusations; either deliberate lies or things that that they believed happened but did not.

It is in this climate that we have you consider the case of Sr Cesnik.
 
I definitely take all of their accounts with a grain of salt, especially Koob's. At the end of the day, we only have his word for what the nature of their relationship was.

Whether Sr Cathy told anyone we will never know, just because she was killed four months later doesn't mean she waited that long without doing anything. We have already seen how manipulative the church is, maybe she just wouldn't rest until she sorted it like she promised the girls. A lot of people are speculating that she had been moved outside of the convent because of her discovery of the abuse and not as an "experiment."

I'm quite surprised that you find it hard to believe that Maskell would show Jean the body; he raped and molested multiple girls/boys, brought in policemen and other clergy to join in, had a sick alliance with the gynaecologist, and also bragged about going into the examinations with the girls to his mechanic of all people. Not forgetting that he also got the gravedigger to bury countless incriminating documents in a very accessible place. So tell me, would someone who does all that with no fear of getting caught have a problem with showing someone he's trying to control a dead body? Especially as he knows, based on evidence, it cannot be traced back to him? I wholeheartedly believe Maskell was involved and possibly initiated the murder but don't think he got his hands dirty himself.

As for Gerry Koob, he probably knows more than he's letting on and is not telling us the full story about what happened when he went to Sr Russell that night, but I don't think he killed her.
 
Am I the only one who thinks Gerry did it? He had a very clear motive. He had just been rejected by her. And her letter makes it sound like they were having sex. ( do we even know she wrote that letter? It was typed. He could have typed it.)

He said their relationship was platonic, but her letter said they were romantic. So he lied. And WTF was that story about her vagina wrapped in newspaper!?!

She had already been gone for four months. Why would the priests come after her that long after she had left? Why would she wait that long to report any abuse?

I do believe the abuse happened, but I just don't think it is related to sister Cathy's murder.

And I do not believe the recovered memory about Jane Doe being taken to see the dead body. The police said that maggots would not be present in the time period between November and January. It was too cold. Of course, that means we have to believe the police, and I am not a bug expert, so I don't know if that is true. But I don't see why anyone would risk being exposed as a murderer by showing somebody a dead body.

Gerry had motive, means, and opportunity. I think he is the simplest answer and the suspect that makes the most sense.
I had zero hackles watching and listening to him.

I don't know why, but the recovered memories thing doesn't sit well with me.

Also, I 100% believed Jane Roe but had doubts about Jane Doe. Can't put my finger on why that is.
 
Just jumping in. Started watching the series last night. N not even thru the 1st episode yet but have many many questions. I need to jot them down.
 
The love for their teacher all these years is what gets me.
Waiting for justice.
 
Gerry Kobb did not strike me as a killer at all, but we know all about the charming sociopath who had everyone fooled. You can never be sure.

A stronger argument against his involvement is that the only motive he would have would have been the fact that she had rejected him and that motive doesn't fit the circumstance.

When someone kills out "rejection" and there is no other underlying motive such as Life Insurance, Child Support or other financial considerations, the real factor at work is humiliation. It usually is not rejection so much as having others see you as "rejected". Since their relationship, whatever it amounted to, was on the low down, this really would not be a factor.

In addition, if Kobb was involved, it would require the other priest who provided the alibi, to be an active participant in the murder. I can not think of a case where someone killed out of personal rejection, humiliation or whatever, and brought someone else in to help them. That kind of murder is strictly do it yourself.
 
The love for their teacher all these years is what gets me.
Waiting for justice.
I'd like to second that. Sr. Catherine's murder is at the top of my list of cases where I'd like finally to see truth and justice. That's why I started the thread 3-4 years ago. It's been far too long coming.
 
I read that the Police said that Jane Doe knew things about the crime scene that were never released to the Public which is why they find her account creditable. Also, the Autopsy report confirms that the maggots she described were on the body where she describes them. A second victim, who remains anonymous according to the Police, also described the body and said she was shown the body. The other girl who lived two blocks from Maskell's and attended Mass where he was a Priest who the FBI investigated, would have had contact with Maskill. Also, it was reported but I can't find out in reading where it was documented, that a black shoe, like a nun shoe, and not belonging to the victim was found with her body.
 
The autopsy confirmed the maggots! The temperatures were in the high 50's to low 60's and the maggots were found where Jane Doe describes them.
 
I wonder what percentage of bodies that sit outside in temperate weather conditions have maggots on them? I wasn't able to pinpoint when she was taken to the body. I have read everything from a couple of days after Sr. Cathy went missing to a month or more. Is there a date certain?
 
I definitely take all of their accounts with a grain of salt, especially Koob's. At the end of the day, we only have his word for what the nature of their relationship was.

Whether Sr Cathy told anyone we will never know, just because she was killed four months later doesn't mean she waited that long without doing anything. We have already seen how manipulative the church is, maybe she just wouldn't rest until she sorted it like she promised the girls. A lot of people are speculating that she had been moved outside of the convent because of her discovery of the abuse and not as an "experiment."

I'm quite surprised that you find it hard to believe that Maskell would show Jean the body; he raped and molested multiple girls/boys, brought in policemen and other clergy to join in, had a sick alliance with the gynaecologist, and also bragged about going into the examinations with the girls to his mechanic of all people. Not forgetting that he also got the gravedigger to bury countless incriminating documents in a very accessible place. So tell me, would someone who does all that with no fear of getting caught have a problem with showing someone he's trying to control a dead body? Especially as he knows, based on evidence, it cannot be traced back to him? I wholeheartedly believe Maskell was involved and possibly initiated the murder but don't think he got his hands dirty himself.

As for Gerry Koob, he probably knows more than he's letting on and is not telling us the full story about what happened when he went to Sr Russell that night, but I don't think he killed her.

Maskell was a monster, but he wasn't stupid. He would never risk getting caught as a murderer. Especially if it meant the end of his free pedophile train. He wanted to keep being free and having access to all those young girls.

Besides, I think we all agree that he didn't personally murder Sister Cathy, right? If he were involved, he had others do it. So how would he know exactly where the body had been dumped? It sounded like he didn't have to search around, he walked right up to it.

Nothing about that recovered memory makes any logical sense to me. I just can't buy it.
 
I had zero hackles watching and listening to him.

I don't know why, but the recovered memories thing doesn't sit well with me.

Also, I 100% believed Jane Roe but had doubts about Jane Doe. Can't put my finger on why that is.

Agree 100% about Jane Doe. I just can't buy that memory about being shown the body. It does not make sense to me. The thing that bothered me about Gerry was his story about the cops showing him Cathy's vagina wrapped in newspaper. C'mon. That never happened. He was trying to deflect attention off of himself and onto the police.
 
Agree 100% about Jane Doe. I just can't buy that memory about being shown the body. It does not make sense to me. The thing that bothered me about Gerry was his story about the cops showing him Cathy's vagina wrapped in newspaper. C'mon. That never happened. He was trying to deflect attention off of himself and onto the police.
Oh right. I forgot about that! When I watched​ that scene, it was like a needle being dragged across a record. Like what the bleep. [emoji55]

The above is just my opinion.
 
Two victims reported seeing the bodies.

I'm missing where the second victim seeing the body was mentioned. Or is there an article on this? This seems like a huge bit of info that is overlooked.


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I'm missing where the second victim seeing the body was mentioned. Or is there an article on this? This seems like a huge bit of info that is overlooked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It happened before episode 3 (I stopped watching) I think it was the girl that was then taken immediately from the body to some waiting LE and they raped her in the car, out on a road that used to be dirt but now is paved.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
 
I'd like to second that. Sr. Catherine's murder is at the top of my list of cases where I'd like finally to see truth and justice. That's why I started the thread 3-4 years ago. It's been far too long coming.
Thank you for doing that! Have you reached out to the two sleuths who run the Facebook page for sister Cathy? I keep expecting them to show up here. I think they would find themselves quite at home.

The above is just my opinion.
 
I read that the Police said that Jane Doe knew things about the crime scene that were never released to the Public which is why they find her account creditable. Also, the Autopsy report confirms that the maggots she described were on the body where she describes them. A second victim, who remains anonymous according to the Police, also described the body and said she was shown the body. The other girl who lived two blocks from Maskell's and attended Mass where he was a Priest who the FBI investigated, would have had contact with Maskill. Also, it was reported but I can't find out in reading where it was documented, that a black shoe, like a nun shoe, and not belonging to the victim was found with her body.
I kept wondering about that shoe. I don't think they mentioned it in the documentary, did they?
 
I read that the Police said that Jane Doe knew things about the crime scene that were never released to the Public which is why they find her account creditable. Also, the Autopsy report confirms that the maggots she described were on the body where she describes them. A second victim, who remains anonymous according to the Police, also described the body and said she was shown the body. The other girl who lived two blocks from Maskell's and attended Mass where he was a Priest who the FBI investigated, would have had contact with Maskill. Also, it was reported but I can't find out in reading where it was documented, that a black shoe, like a nun shoe, and not belonging to the victim was found with her body.

Where did you read that the police said that Jane Doe knew things about the crime scene that was never released to the public? It would be interesting to see the exact wording.


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Oh my, I hadn't considered this--but do we know if the 2nd person who was shown the body is living--is there any possibility the 2nd woman was Sr. Russell?? Could that be why she was so terrified to talk about it her entire life?
 

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