Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[otto]

How odd that Perugia LE is up and ready to investigate Aviello's claim that he committed perjury in return for a bribe by the Sollecitos. We never saw that much energy when it came to investigating Aviello's original lie that his brother killed MK by mistakes and hid the keys, etc.

How about ... prosecutors knew the original lie was a lie, and as long as it wasn't presented in court it wasn't worth wasting the time. Now that the liar claims he was promised something by the lawyers or families of Knox and Sollecito in exchange for false testimony and he lied under oath in court, it's a bit of a problem for the lovebirds.

We knew when the pair paraded the lying prisoners through the courtroom that the lovebirds looked desperate. Now we see how desperate they are. I wonder who else has been offered money in exchange for favorable testimony.

 

[SMK]

How about ... prosecutors knew the original lie was a lie, and as long as it wasn't presented in court it wasn't worth wasting the time. Now that the liar claims he was promised something by the lawyers or families of Knox and Sollecito in exchange for false testimony and he lied under oath in court, it's a bit of a problem for the lovebirds.

We knew when the pair paraded the lying prisoners through the courtroom that the lovebirds looked desperate. Now we see how desperate they are. I wonder who else has been offered money in exchange for favorable testimony.

I cannot imagine that educated and sophisticated persons such as the Sollecitos are known to be, could ever in their wildest dreams, imagine that Aviello's crappy, clumsy concoction of nonsense of a bogus story would help Raffaele and Amanda in any way, shape or form. Only a cretin or a moron would bribe such a boor. It is all gossip. He wants more attention, and he is getting it.

 

[otto]

As I'm sure you know, the court-appointed experts did not opine on the evidence that implicates RG.



<modsnip>: the contamination of DNA is not an affirmative defense; the defendants do not have the burden of proving contamination beyond a reasonable doubt. But that doesn't make the proven potential contamination "hypothetical."

DNA results that COULD come from contamination because proper protocol was not followed are no longer reliable evidence. They can't be used to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Not by any sane court.

Since contamination cannot be absolutely ruled out in any DNA lab, would you like to see DNA excluded from all murder investigations?

 

[miley]

Yikes, you are right. And here I was wondering why "he shaved all the pretty hair off". I hope he gets out of there soon.

yeah, it went right over my head too! (sorry Steve, and yes, I agree with you)

 

[otto]

The new experts did not review those findings. However, if they did, I'm not so sure they would find all of Guede's evidence was collected and analyzed correctly. In point of fact, the reason the results for the handle of the knife are not contested is because it is clear it cannot result from contamination (peaks are quite high). It's like contesting a smudged fingerprint as compared to a clear fingerptint. Certainly you can attack the collection of fingerprint evidence on the smudged ones, but say the clear ones still stand.

Tthe bra clasp clearly has at least a 3rd person and possibly a 4th person's DNA. Maundy has shown that Casey Anthony's DNA is more likely than Amanda's DNA. It isn't Rudy's. Whose is it? The burden of proof is not on the defense to figure out whose it is to prove the evidence is sound, it is the prosecutions.

There's no way that knife can be the murder weapon b/c it can't have starch (indicating it wasn't thoroughly cleaned) and also be the murder weapon (so well cleaned it only left the faintest trace of Meredith on the tip.) So the knife result is contaminated. In fact, if we start saying RFU peaks at Meredith's height count as real DNA evidence, then the bra clasp might have 5 DNA profiles on it. You see all the tiny peaks on the graph?

These tiny peaks can also be seen on the cigarette butt graph.

It has been suggested in the report that the machines may have had some trace DNA on them, thus providing one hypothetical reason for contamination. I would think that this would also be a reason to consider the DNA on the knife handle to be contaminated, yet the experts don't allege this in connection to the DNA on the handle ... seems a bit inconsistent.

 

[otto]

I cannot imagine that educated and sophisticated persons such as the Sollecitos are known to be, could ever in their wildest dreams, imagine that Aviello's crappy, clumsy concoction of nonsense of a bogus story would help Raffaele and Amanda in any way, shape or form. Only a cretin or a moron would bribe such a boor. It is all gossip. He wants more attention, and he is getting it.

Educated and sophisticated? Dr Sollecito is a urologist. Sollecito completed his studies in jail. Dr Sollecito is known for offering money to "make water run uphill" and he describes his son's lawyer as "Ms 30 Balls". Even the white collar crowd is capable of offering bribes to see their preferred outcome ... in fact ... that's more of a white collar crime than a blue collar crime.

 

[otto]

I'm speculating, but I think that might be the reason behind the shaved head.

It probably isn't a good idea to look too "waif-like" or pretty in a men's prison.

Perhaps he picked up lice in prison and had to shave his head ... that seems a little more likely that suggesting that after three years into his sentence, other prisoners thought he was too pretty so he shaved his head.

 

[otto]

Yes, their agenda is absolutely in a different direction to ours......

The agenda of the investigators is to solve the murder of Meredith Kercher. Based on heaps of evidence, three culprits were found guilty and sentenced to a quarter of a century in jail. The agenda of the culprits is to do anything they can to obfuscate the truth, including trying to discredit DNA labs on the basis of claims that contamination cannot be ruled out, parading five lying prisoners through the court, alleging that every single person associated with the investigation is corrupt or incompetent and running a PR campaign to bury any information that reveals the involvement of the lovebirds in the murder.

 

[emyr]

It has been suggested in the report that the machines may have had some trace DNA on them, thus providing one hypothetical reason for contamination. I would think that this would also be a reason to consider the DNA on the knife handle to be contaminated, yet the experts don't allege this in connection to the DNA on the handle ... seems a bit inconsistent.

It would be inconsistent if the DNA on the handle registered below 50 RFU. But I believe it registered around 800 RFU.... which is highly unlikely to be trace contamination.

I imagine there is some cut-off number for what you would see if the machine was contaminated. I think that's the issue with the bra clasp. Can you say a 125 RFU peak could still be accredited to machine contamination? I don't know the answer to that.

 

[emyr]

I cannot imagine that educated and sophisticated persons such as the Sollecitos are known to be, could ever in their wildest dreams, imagine that Aviello's crappy, clumsy concoction of nonsense of a bogus story would help Raffaele and Amanda in any way, shape or form. Only a cretin or a moron would bribe such a boor. It is all gossip. He wants more attention, and he is getting it.

If they couldn't have imagined his story would help them, then their lawyer should have realized that too. It was a stupid move putting this guy up on the stand. I don't think I've been impressed with any of the defense counsel thus far.

 

[Allusonz]

Here is more on that story:

"Italians cops harass scientists in Amanda Knox trial"

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/07/26/italians-cops-harass-scientists-in-amanda-knox-trial/

I found it interesting that they sent 2 patrols to collect the DVD without a search warrant....

 

[SMK]

Educated and sophisticated? Dr Sollecito is a urologist. Sollecito completed his studies in jail. Dr Sollecito is known for offering money to "make water run uphill" and he describes his son's lawyer as "Ms 30 Balls". Even the white collar crowd is capable of offering bribes to see their preferred outcome ... in fact ... that's more of a white collar crime than a blue collar crime.

 

[Allusonz]

I think it's quite miraculous that the DNA testing and collection of evidence related to Guede was done correctly, and more significantly that the testing of Knox DNA on the knife handle also was done correctly. It is significant that evidence collected and analysed in the crime scene that does not implicate the lovebirds was correct. That must be quite a relief to the court experts. At least not everything they did is criticized.

The knife blade could only have been contaminated in the lab, so we see a tidy argument from the Rome experts identifying how that could have happened. It's not a very interesting hypothetical argument about what could have happened and it is unfortunate that there is no proof to support the hypothesis. The funny thing is that the results of the DNA analysis do match Meredith's DNA.

The clasp could have been contaminated at the crime scene or the lab. This hypothetical argument seems to cover all the bases proposed by the vocal self-proclaimed US experts. This argument seems to be dangling to some extent. If contamination occurred in the cottage, at the same time that other correctly processed evidence was collected from the sealed crime scene, where did it come from? How did DNA from Sollecito, and not anyone else that lived in the cottage, manage to attach itself to the clasp? Why didn't his DNA attach itself to one of the bathrooms, Filomina's bedroom or even Amanda's bedroom? Sollecito's DNA must have been on a self-destructive mission to fly from the kitchen, into the bedroom, only to land on a crucial piece of crime scene evidence.

I look forward to hearing from the other experts.

I believe you are mistaken. The experts were appointed on behalf of the appeals court to examine the DNA testing regarding RS and AK. Nothing in the mandate requested that they review the DNA findings of RG. This could though be something that could now be filed on RG's behalf

 

[SMK]

Perhaps he picked up lice in prison and had to shave his head ... that seems a little more likely that suggesting that after three years into his sentence, other prisoners thought he was too pretty so he shaved his head.

 

[Allusonz]

I'm speculating, but I think that might be the reason behind the shaved head.

It probably isn't a good idea to look too "waif-like" or pretty in a men's prison.

Looking good is not a good idea in a mens prison but I do recall that AK did cut her hair due to the heat of the summer. It could be as simple as that as well as I have not seen an explanation as to why RS did indeed shave his head...

 

[emyr]

There is that starch again Funny how if a bra clasp is left for 6 weeks in a sealed room, people scream contamination. But if a kitchen knife is left in a kitchen drawer for days and is possibly still being used then of course we can't have any starch on it. The starch means nothing. JMO.

Eww. I'm sorry, it never occurred to me that they would use the murder knife to cut potatoes with afterwards.

But if they had done that... then the logic would be they doused the knife in bleach, and then sometime later used it to cut potatoes (or some starchy food), and then cleaned it again in such a thorough way that the police's suspicions were raised enough that they thought it was the murder weapon (because it was so clean?)

The WHOLE scenario is that they took the kitchen knife from Raf's house, randomly met Rudy at the basketball court, went to the cottage, killed Meredith, cleaned the knife somewhere, took it back to the cottage. Scrubbed and bleached it. Sometime within the next three days cooked with it (instead of using the other knives), and then thoroughly cleaned it again to a level where the suspicions of the police were raised.

It defies plausibility. JMO. :innocent:

 

[SMK]

Perhaps he picked up lice in prison and had to shave his head ... that seems a little more likely that suggesting that after three years into his sentence, other prisoners thought he was too pretty so he shaved his head.

Well, if you understand anything of the artistic and gay male perspective, you can see that formerly he was indeed "pretty" as Amanda, and looks like he is dressed for Provincetown - and the shaven head has him looking like a hardened convict. Medicated shampoo takes care of lice, and I see Amanda has not shaven her head. :razz:

AND the journalist for Rolling Stone sees it as Nova and I do:

Sollecito, who sat 10 feet away, no longer resembles Harry Potter. Men's prisons in Italy are not so forgiving. He has shaved his head and has added muscle on his shoulders, arms, back. He smiles bitterly at his lawyers and has a cold gaze. He has begun to look like a convict.

 

[Allusonz]

How about ... prosecutors knew the original lie was a lie, and as long as it wasn't presented in court it wasn't worth wasting the time. Now that the liar claims he was promised something by the lawyers or families of Knox and Sollecito in exchange for false testimony and he lied under oath in court, it's a bit of a problem for the lovebirds.

We knew when the pair paraded the lying prisoners through the courtroom that the lovebirds looked desperate. Now we see how desperate they are. I wonder who else has been offered money in exchange for favorable testimony.

Did it ever occur to anyone that since the letters to the Court went ignored and never investigated in the first trial that the defense was simply doing due diligence?

This should of been investigated by ILE when these started to come forward instead they were ignored thus the defense had to bring them up in the appeals. It does not mean they believed them to be true. That is their job to defend their clients

 

[Allusonz]

Eww. I'm sorry, it never occurred to me that they would use the murder knife to cut potatoes with afterwards.

But if they had done that... then the logic would be they doused the knife in bleach, and then sometime later used it to cut potatoes (or some starchy food), and then cleaned it again in such a thorough way that the police's suspicions were raised enough that they thought it was the murder weapon (because it was so clean?)

The WHOLE scenario is that they took the kitchen knife from Raf's house, randomly met Rudy at the basketball court, went to the cottage, killed Meredith, cleaned the knife somewhere, took it back to the cottage. Scrubbed and bleached it. Sometime within the next three days cooked with it (instead of using the other knives), and then thoroughly cleaned it again to a level where the suspicions of the police were raised.

It defies plausibility. JMO. :innocent:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I had thought the same thing emyr. I can't believe that while stoned out of their minds they were able to navigate the streets to carrying this knife let alone go back and cook with it. (My quirky sense of humour is showing again )

 

[Allusonz]

Perhaps he picked up lice in prison and had to shave his head ... that seems a little more likely that suggesting that after three years into his sentence, other prisoners thought he was too pretty so he shaved his head.

Do you have a cite on the lice?