Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #20

[Chris_Halkides]

when I first came to this case, as an American, I thought oh the little cute girl from Seattle is being railroaded. After doing some research (not from american tv or american sources) I came to the conclusion that not only were she and rafa NOT innocent, but they were quite savvy killers for their age. SCARY. Almost got away with it. Their only mistake was throwing away those phones too early. If they didn't do that she'd be chilling in Seattle right now smoking a joint.

weedemout,

Can you tell us a little bit more about the research that you did? One of the things that I find difficult to accept is how Amanda and Raffaele are supposed to be so cunning one minute and so stupid the next. I am also not sure what you mean with respect to the phones.

 

[Rolfe]

If they did actually murder Meredith, I think their huge mistake was going anywhere near the cottage that morning, let alone without a coherent story or plan of action. They should have left for Gubbio at the earliest possible moment.

How anyone can believe that the comings and goings of that morning were the result of an actual decision by two competent adults who had had time to discuss and decide what to do, I can't imagine.

 

[Nova]

Casey Anthony had no DNA tying her to Caylee's murder but people were ready to hang her.

If Amanda is innocent then so is O.J. Simpson & Casey Anthony.

Now that is ridiculous! There are no similarities between the cases--except that most of us believe the guilty parties were acquitted in the Simpson and Anthony trials.

That hardly means that everyone who is acquitted is guilty.

 

[Nova]

Explain all the lies told by Amanda.......

Maybe you'd like to read back a few threads. This has been discussed at length.

Amanda told one lie: that she met PL on the night of the murder and they went to the cottage where they met the victim. She began recanting that false testimony almost immediately and it was later proved that PL could not possibly have met her.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

The jury found for her. They stated that 24 out of the 29 police officers violated her civil rights by being supremely indifferent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurman_v._City_of_Torrington

believe09,

Are there other citations available? I just did a quick google search and did not find anything that focussed on the conspiracy aspect of the case.

 

[Nova]

She was in the kitchen.
She was covering her ears.
Patrick was attacking Meredith.

I'm sure there are more, but these are three I can think of for a start.

Those are all part of the same false testimony given to Perugia LE.

Breaking the false (and soon to be recanted) story into phrases doesn't actually make each phrase a separate "lie".

AK also made statements that MAY be erroneous, such as the time she and RS ate dinner. But these may be misstatements rather than lies.

Malkmus is right: there was basically one false story and it was recanted the following day.

 

[Rolfe]

Like I said, I was trying to be accommodating to weedemout and iluvmua.

If that is all a single lie, the rest of the lies must be the ones the investigators and prosecutors told.

 

[wasnt_me]

It is not a fact. You are just speculating based on one trace of DNA which I admit proves he touched the purse. He obviously had blood on his hands when he touched it. If he had gone through the purse there would have been more traces, if he had hold the purse upside down there would have been more traces, where are his bloody shoe prints showing he went back and forth doing these things?, where is the blood on the phones that he grabbed with his bloody hands? How did he do all those things in the 1 or 2 minutes till he was heard running away?

I agree. It just doesn't fit

He was not heard running away. And I'd like answers to all these questions in regards to Ak and RS, really.

 

[wasnt_me]

How does anyone who supports Amanda explain all of the lies she told? She implicated an innocent man in a murder.

The only person I support is Meredith.

I often wonder some MK supporters are not outraged by this shoddy investigation. Personally, as a supporter of MK, I also became a supporter of reasonable doubt for AK and RS. I want nothing more than the right person punished. I don't believe AK and RS fall in that catagory.

 

[wasnt_me]

The only "lies" seem to be the statements given to the police. Here is the text (translated to English) of these two statements. (can be downloaded from here.)

1:45 am:


5:45 am:


These were both written in Italian -- Knox was not fluent in the language at that point. By 1:00 pm, she had written a letter to LE saying that her earlier statements were not reliable.

On the basis of these statements, LE arrested Patrick, kept him in jail for two weeks despite the fact that he had an alibi witness, and kept hs business closed for two months as a "crime scene."

Is Amanda responsible for the way ILE treated PL? I personally blame ILE.

Edited to add: I also want to note that the text message mentioned in these statements was literally "See you later" translated into Italian. "See you later" is recognized by most Americans as another way to say goodbye, but would be translated in Italian to mean that a later meeting was intended to take place. It seems obvious that AK would intend the American meaning. Yet in these statements purportedly written by her, she refers to them by the badly translated meaning. To me, this shows obvious authorship by someone other than AK.

I wanted to add a correction to this. It's my understanding that PL was arrested somewhere around 2am and the police where already "searching" RS's apartment. So it seems that the agenda was already set, and AK did what the police needed her to do to justify what they were already doing.

I believe they found some kind of evidence to indicate a black man had been at the house. I think they saw AK with PL that afternoon. I think they arranged the tag-team interrogation and sent officers to PL and RS's while the interrogation was still going on. I think that they thought they had it right. That's why they tried so hard to shake PL's alibi, and that's why they kept him in jail. If he was arrested before the ink was dry on Ak's statement, it can't be logically assumed that her statement alone was holding PL in custody. We heard early on that what appeared to be hair from a black person was found. They said later it was wool, but these arrests probably happened before the lab distinguished that. I'm just speculating, but I think it's gotta be considered that the police already had some kind of reason to toss PL in jail.

I don't think it's logical to say AK misled the police and they were naive enough to fall for it, but then say that they conducted the rest of the investigation with impeccably. It's also not logical to assume that if they put all their belief into AK's statement, but she was wrong, that the rest of the witnesses they put their faith in are correct.

How can the police be naive enough to make the mistake of believing AK, but be cunning enough to find "impeachable" witnesses like the homeless man, and the half-deaf woman? How are these two witnesses more believable than the tow truck driver and family who were on the street? Nara was in her house and saw nothing. The homeless man was around the corner. So why aren't the people actually parked in front of the house and the man working on their car more credible when they saw the house was dark and no one was running around anywhere?

 

[wasnt_me]

If they did actually murder Meredith, I think their huge mistake was going anywhere near the cottage that morning, let alone without a coherent story or plan of action. They should have left for Gubbio at the earliest possible moment.

How anyone can believe that the comings and goings of that morning were the result of an actual decision by two competent adults who had had time to discuss and decide what to do, I can't imagine.

The theory is, they went back to clean up after a good night's sleep. Why they'd kill someone at between 930 and 1130pm but wait about 10-12 hours to return to clean up makes no sense. Why not wrap the body in the blanket and take it out of there and clean up everything completely during the middle of the night? Instead, they supposedly tossed phones and went back to RS's and chilled all night? Then they did a half-A job of cleaning the crime scene the next morning.

Why is it so important to toss phones and not completely clean the house? OR toss Mk's body? the crime reeks of an impulsive killing in which the perpetrator fled, never to return. even the front door was wide open. In no way does there appear to be one ounce of thought put into covering up anything but MK's body. AK and RS didn't even bother to go to a bar or some place to be "seen" as RG did that night, and what would have been the point of turning off their phones again? If the murder was over before midnight, and they were not cleaning, why did the phones need to be off?

 

[wasnt_me]

Now that is ridiculous! There are no similarities between the cases--except that most of us believe the guilty parties were acquitted in the Simpson and Anthony trials.

That hardly means that everyone who is acquitted is guilty.

some people believe that the juries got it right in the other two cases. Some believe OJ and Anthony AND AK are innocent. Others believe varying combinations of guilt for each of them. It's some people think cucumbers taste better pickeled.

 

[wasnt_me]

So no talk of the footprints in the hallway? No talk of the new info on the computers? How did the defense fair today?

 

[Malkmus]

From Frank at Perugiashock:

The police gave the tapes with the wiretapped calls to the defense, but 29 calls between Amanda and Raffaele and between Raffaele and his dad, Maori revealed today, were missing.
Another accident? Another mistake?

The message was saying “Ci vediamo più tardi, buona serata”. But they told the judge that it was only “Ci vediamo più tardi”. Can it be a mistake?

“13 October 2006″, Raffaele writes on his blog that he was having strong emotions (his mother was just dead, etc.). But they gave to judge Matteini a copy of the page without the year, only “13 Ottobre”. So Matteini thought that Raffaele was having strong emotions right on those days before the murder. Also this editing was by mistake?

they absolutely wanted to produce a sentence that, in their opinion, would have guaranteed the life sentence for the two... Hellmann yesterday said no. But today, as soon as the hearing started, he announced that the trio had sneaked it anyway in the middle of their report!

http://perugiashock.com/2011/09/27/luca-maori-“the-police-are-nice-only-some-cops-are-criminals”/

Explain all the lies told by PLE...

 

[Rolfe]

I don't think it's logical to say AK misled the police and they were naive enough to fall for it, but then say that they conducted the rest of the investigation with impeccably. It's also not logical to assume that if they put all their belief into AK's statement, but she was wrong, that the rest of the witnesses they put their faith in are correct.

How can the police be naive enough to make the mistake of believing AK, but be cunning enough to find "[un]impeachable" witnesses like the homeless man, and the half-deaf woman? How are these two witnesses more believable than the tow truck driver and family who were on the street? Nara was in her house and saw nothing. The homeless man was around the corner. So why aren't the people actually parked in front of the house and the man working on their car more credible when they saw the house was dark and no one was running around anywhere?

That is an extraordinarily good point, wasnt_me.

 

[Rolfe]

The theory is, they went back to clean up after a good night's sleep.

They're supposed to have done WHAT????

:floorlaugh:

Not that it's funny, I suppose, but just, WOW. They've just committed a horrific murder, they are presumably wired to the moon and scared out of their wits, so they go back to Raff's and have a good night's sleep?

Leaving all that incriminating evidence right there for Filomena or the postman or just anyone to find, before they get a chance to clean up. Then they go back in daylight, when the town is waking, and perform this miraculous selectomatic DNA removal, cleaning only theirs and leaving Rudy's. Except they leave Raff's bloody footprint so they can lead the cops right to it. And they don't quite get finished (still holding mops and so on) when the very evidence they discarded leads the cops right to the door.

And then Amanda forgets they're supposed to be throwing Rudy under the bus and starts wittering on about Patrick....

How stupid do the prosecution think the court is? (No don't answer that....)

 

[ziggy]

Ha ha "selectomatic" DNA removal.

Yeah, leaving the murder scene to get some shut eye before you decide to do a clean up then incriminate the wrong...oh God I'm not even going to finish. The entire IDEA that AK and RS were involved in a sex game gone wrong etc. staged a break in, protected a perp they barely knew while incriminating each other or others...is so incredible, meaning without credibility, that it really scares me what bulldookey people will buy into! It's like the more incredible it is, the more they believe it. When a jury buys it, it is downright injustice.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Ha ha "selectomatic" DNA removal.

Yeah, leaving the murder scene to get some shut eye before you decide to do a clean up then incriminate the wrong...oh God I'm not even going to finish. The entire IDEA that AK and RS were involved in a sex game gone wrong etc. staged a break in, protected a perp they barely knew while incriminating each other or others...is so incredible, meaning without credibility, that it really scares me what bulldookey people will buy into! It's like the more incredible it is, the more they believe it. When a jury buys it, it is downright injustice.

ziggy,

The pro-guilt community sometimes remarks on Raffaele's computer activity around 6 AM as evidence that he lied about his actions the morning of 2 November. IIRC, he was making a playlist for the day trip they were planning (or for the selective cleanup, depending on one's perspective). If I had just committed murder, I do not think I would be worried about making a music playlist.

 

[SMK]

Amanda Knox appeal: How she changed Raffaele Sollecito's life


You meet a girl at a concert, she lives with friends and from that day you go out more and more, you spend untroubled days together... You can't ask for any more from life.

"Then one morning you return to her house and find a big mess.

"The problems begin: the police arrive, break down the locked door of a bedroom and discover the lifeless body of one of her friends.

"From then on they suspect everyone and everything, including you.

"And you, thinking you are helping them, fall into a trap you have made with your own hands."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...llecito-s-life-115875-23452085/#ixzz1ZFhFipjD

Pro-Knox woman 'told prosecutor he is evil'
Nick Pisa
27 Sep 2011


A supporter of Amanda Knox has been questioned by police after shouting: "You are evil," at one of the main prosecutors in the American student's appeal case.

Michelle Moore sought out Giuliano Mignini during a break in court proceedings in Perugia, Italy, where Knox, 24, and her ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 25, are appealing against conviction for the 2007 murder of British student Meredith Kercher.

Witnesses said Mrs Moore marched over to Mr Mignini and shouted: "You are evil, you have no conscience." Others said she told him: "You have no heart."

A shocked Mr Mignini asked police to identify her after the outburst. She was asked to show her US passport and provide officers with her details. She was then taken away but was not arrested.

A file on the case will now be sent to prosecutors who will decide if there is enough evidence to proceed to a full charge of offending an official of the court, which carries a maximum sentence of three years in jail.

It happened yesterday, the same day as a lawyer for bar owner Patrick Lumumba, wrongly identified by Knox as the killer, had described her as a
"diabolical, demonic, Satanic, she Devil".

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...rosecutor-he-is-evil.do#.ToMTMezOHHY.facebook

 

[ohiogirl]

From Frank at Perugiashock:









http://perugiashock.com/2011/09/27/luca-maori-%E2%80%9Cthe-police-are-nice-only-some-cops-are-criminals%E2%80%9D/

Explain all the lies told by PLE...

It just never ends. I am amazed that there are people who can believe anything this group <modsnip> says.