Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #20

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I posted this on another site earlier today and decided since it's kinda slow here I'd post here. It's really long compared to what I have previously posted. Its just my opinion and why I think what I do.

Let me start by saying I am usually, almost always, pro-prosecution if the evidence presented is convincing. Secondly, I haven't really followed this case until the last couple of months so most of my opinions are based on the appeal/verification of the verdict that has been going on recently. I've tried to keep an open mind but a few things have convinced me that Amanda and RS were not present at the time of the murder.

Watching the video of the evidence collection combined with the evaluation of that evidence and collection process by the court appointed examiners has led me to disregard all evidence collected by ILE inside the apartment. Forensic evidence of Amanda inside the apartment alone wouldn't mean anything since she lived there. Normally I would lean towards LE collection and processing and not so much what the defense pays for but this evaluation was done by court appointed experts in the field of collection, processing and interpretation of dna. They had nothing to gain or lose no matter what they found/said. So I do value what they had to say. Someone commented how on the stand one admitted that something was possible. Well, anything is possible, the question should be is it probable. It's possible a UFO could land on the Eiffle tower, but is it probable? No, at least I doubt it.

The prosecution and guilters pound on Amanda's lies. I can understand that. But when the prosecution and witnesses also lie I don't hold much weight to what they say. Kettle calling the pot black as it were. It's one reason I am almost always pro prosecution. I've never seen one that lied so much.

The knife collected at RS's doesn't match the weapon mark found at the scene, and there was no blood found on it. It was supposedly cleaned well enough to remove the blood but not well enough to remove minute dna sample of the victems dna and bread starch. Can't have it both ways, sorry.

There really is no evidence that puts either Amanda or RS at the apartment the night of the murder, and I believe Rudy committed the crime alone.

I believe ILE and the prosecutor didn't like the way Amanda behaved, they were feeling pressure from the media and the public as soon as the murder became public knowledge to solve this horrible crime Amanda and RS became they're prime suspects from the beginning. Ego and pride refused to let any of them back off that initial assumption. Evidence collection techs looked like the key stone cops in the video, I was dumbstruck watching evidence collected without changing gloves. Passing around evidence with dirty gloves, including a hair on one. If they were that sloppy when the cameras were rolling, how sloppy were they when it wasn't.

A certain amount of character assasination is expected by the prosecuters in any court case, however there is generally evidence to back it up. The levels this proscecuter (and civil attorneys) went to without any evidence to back it up tells me more about them than it does about Amanda and RS.

Something in general that bugs me is that Amanda is supposedly such a good lover that she takes a virgin and in a week turns him into a sadistic homicidal rapist. Sorry, not buying that one either.

There is also no evidence that she is a witch, practises satanism, paganism, devil worship or BDSM (the whole dominatrix thing).
 
Just thought I would share this, from a poster on JREF. Does anyone here believe this is a strong psychological indicator? It would seem fairly solid to me, but am curious as to what others might think:

I NOW GUARANTEE (RIGHT HERE AND NOW) THAT AMANDA AND RAFFAELE WILL BE ACQUITTED OF ALL CHARGES INCLUDING (if Hellmann is even half the critical thinker I believe him to be) THE "ACCUSATION OF LUMUMBA" SLANDER CHARGE!!!

How can I say this? It's possible because I know enough about jury psychology to be able to point out that if Maresca's tactic had actually worked, every one on the jury (judges and lay-judges) would have been so incensed at Amanda and Raffaele that not one of them would have laughed the next day at the eskimo nose kissing reference made by Ms. B.

Some (if not all) of the jury actually laughed with the defense here. Think about that. Can you drop any bias you might have and actually have the ability to wrap your mind around this idea? Let me ask you this. Did Mignini (if he was awake) laugh at this?


You can ridicule or deride or argue the point with me all you want, but I don't care, because you'll see for yourself in less than a week,
 
I posted this on another site earlier today and decided since it's kinda slow here I'd post here. It's really long compared to what I have previously posted. Its just my opinion and why I think what I do.

Let me start by saying I am usually, almost always, pro-prosecution if the evidence presented is convincing. Secondly, I haven't really followed this case until the last couple of months so most of my opinions are based on the appeal/verification of the verdict that has been going on recently. I've tried to keep an open mind but a few things have convinced me that Amanda and RS were not present at the time of the murder.

Watching the video of the evidence collection combined with the evaluation of that evidence and collection process by the court appointed examiners has led me to disregard all evidence collected by ILE inside the apartment. Forensic evidence of Amanda inside the apartment alone wouldn't mean anything since she lived there. Normally I would lean towards LE collection and processing and not so much what the defense pays for but this evaluation was done by court appointed experts in the field of collection, processing and interpretation of dna. They had nothing to gain or lose no matter what they found/said. So I do value what they had to say. Someone commented how on the stand one admitted that something was possible. Well, anything is possible, the question should be is it probable. It's possible a UFO could land on the Eiffle tower, but is it probable? No, at least I doubt it.

The prosecution and guilters pound on Amanda's lies. I can understand that. But when the prosecution and witnesses also lie I don't hold much weight to what they say. Kettle calling the pot black as it were. It's one reason I am almost always pro prosecution. I've never seen one that lied so much.

The knife collected at RS's doesn't match the weapon mark found at the scene, and there was no blood found on it. It was supposedly cleaned well enough to remove the blood but not well enough to remove minute dna sample of the victems dna and bread starch. Can't have it both ways, sorry.

There really is no evidence that puts either Amanda or RS at the apartment the night of the murder, and I believe Rudy committed the crime alone.

I believe ILE and the prosecutor didn't like the way Amanda behaved, they were feeling pressure from the media and the public as soon as the murder became public knowledge to solve this horrible crime Amanda and RS became they're prime suspects from the beginning. Ego and pride refused to let any of them back off that initial assumption. Evidence collection techs looked like the key stone cops in the video, I was dumbstruck watching evidence collected without changing gloves. Passing around evidence with dirty gloves, including a hair on one. If they were that sloppy when the cameras were rolling, how sloppy were they when it wasn't.

A certain amount of character assasination is expected by the prosecuters in any court case, however there is generally evidence to back it up. The levels this proscecuter (and civil attorneys) went to without any evidence to back it up tells me more about them than it does about Amanda and RS.

Something in general that bugs me is that Amanda is supposedly such a good lover that she takes a virgin and in a week turns him into a sadistic homicidal rapist. Sorry, not buying that one either.

There is also no evidence that she is a witch, practises satanism, paganism, devil worship or BDSM (the whole dominatrix thing).
Well expressed, and excellent concluding remarks.
 
Hi Sleuthers. Not following this case closely, only from the TV crime programs on it, which don't sh0ow you much about the evidence. What's the consensus at WS on her guilt?
 
Just thought I would share this, from a poster on JREF. Does anyone here believe this is a strong psychological indicator? It would seem fairly solid to me, but am curious as to what others might think:

After being sure the CA jury would find her guilty of something other than lying I'm not sure about anything a jury does until they do it! I do hope they do the right thing this time and aquit but I'm not going to guarentee it based on them laughing about something the defense said. I feel there are a couple other psychological issues regarding these Judges/lay jury and that is the same ancient religious views of a sexually active young unmarried woman we've seen from the prosecutor and I feel from the judge/lay jury at the first trial.
 
Hi Sleuthers. Not following this case closely, only from the TV crime programs on it, which don't sh0ow you much about the evidence. What's the consensus at WS on her guilt?

I don't know that there is a consesus -- I think that the majority of regular posters to this thread believe that AK and RS should be acquitted, and there is a poll further down which has not-guilty leading by a plurality of the votes. :)
 
You guys have a lot of great introspection tonight. Good reading.
 
has anyone here seen the recent lifetime movie on this case? how is it? is it from more of pro guilt or pro innocence perspective? i assume it's from more of an "entertainment" perspective. lol. i'll probably be watching it later tonight. Hayden Panettiere is a weird choice to play Amanda.
 
Hi. I'm a newbie -- been following the case since near the end of the first trial, but only yesterday came across this forum. It's refreshing to see such respectful discussion, even through there are clearly a few here who do not agree that AK and RS are innocent.

I've read all the old postings at such sites as Perugia Shock and Candace Dempsey's blog from throughout the trial and all the woefully inadequate English language newspaper coverage, and the thing that still confuses me about the original trial and the appeal is that I don't remember seeing much in the way of expert testimony by defense psychologists saying Amanda's behavior really wasn't all that weird as there is no set correct way to react, and a thorough examination of the phenomenon of false confessions. Did the defense ever have a behavioral analysis of Amanda done, or have someone testify that it isn't really uncommon for a 20 year old to have had a few sex partners? Did I miss this? I keep getting the feeling that the defense just needs to clarify a lot of the behavioral misconceptions more forcefully than I've seen.

On a slightly different topic, it seems to me that there ought to be some sort of a libel suit against certain websites that continue to knowingly give false and deeply prejudicial information about the case. In the beginning I was swayed by certain sites to see AK and RS as guilty, until I realized that much of the "evidence" still stated there as fact never came out at the trial or was clearly refuted. And considering all the so-called evidence that did make the cut into the trial, the damning stuff that didn't even make it couldn't possibly have a grain of truth.

:welcome:
 
Thanks for the warm welcomes.

Does anyone know if there might be a good reason for the defense not to have used psychological experts? Might Italians tend to be hostile toward someone claiming expertise in psychology, in a sort of anti-science, particularly anti-psychology way? I'm thinking of how dismissive some types of American conservatives can be about such things. But it's hard to believe that it would do more harm than good to educate the jury a bit.

When AK's mom arrived and contacted the US embassy they gave her a list of lawyers. My understanding with respect to this is that they called till someone answered in english. The lawyer was a corporate lawyer not a criminal one thus that may give you a huge clue as to why things we would take for granted to be a given did not happen here
 
has anyone here seen the recent lifetime movie on this case? how is it? is it from more of pro guilt or pro innocence perspective? i assume it's from more of an "entertainment" perspective. lol. i'll probably be watching it later tonight. Hayden Panettiere is a weird choice to play Amanda.

It has always been my personal opinion that there is no way a 2 hour program could possibly cover the scope of this case. Maybe a mini-series or documentary. I recall Malkmus stating that there is one in the works from a reporter perspective IIRC. There are errors within the program which have been reported on as well.
 
As well an interesting piece

"Amanda Knox is a witch? Sorry, are we living in 1486?"

"Here are the news headlines for 1486: in the fair city of Perugia, a she-devil hath falsely accused an inn-keeper of murder most vile … Sorry, let me start again. This isn't the 15th century, when "witches" were being hunted all over Europe, tortured into confessing and burned at the stake. In 2011, no one seriously believes that women go mad with lust and sell their souls to the devil – or do they"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/27/amanda-knox-witch-hunts-italian-court
 
It has always been my personal opinion that there is no way a 2 hour program could possibly cover the scope of this case. Maybe a mini-series or documentary. I recall Malkmus stating that there is one in the works from a reporter perspective IIRC. There are errors within the program which have been reported on as well.

mmk, i figured. i will take it with a grain of salt. something from a reporters perspective could be interesting!

i do have a question though. what is Amanda's story today? has she made any other statements besides the statement/s implicating Lamumba? did those statements make sense? i have to wonder what statements she will give if she is allowed to go back home.
 
Hi. I'm a newbie -- been following the case since near the end of the first trial, but only yesterday came across this forum. It's refreshing to see such respectful discussion, even through there are clearly a few here who do not agree that AK and RS are innocent.

I've read all the old postings at such sites as Perugia Shock and Candace Dempsey's blog from throughout the trial and all the woefully inadequate English language newspaper coverage, and the thing that still confuses me about the original trial and the appeal is that I don't remember seeing much in the way of expert testimony by defense psychologists saying Amanda's behavior really wasn't all that weird as there is no set correct way to react, and a thorough examination of the phenomenon of false confessions. Did the defense ever have a behavioral analysis of Amanda done, or have someone testify that it isn't really uncommon for a 20 year old to have had a few sex partners? Did I miss this? I keep getting the feeling that the defense just needs to clarify a lot of the behavioral misconceptions more forcefully than I've seen.

On a slightly different topic, it seems to me that there ought to be some sort of a libel suit against certain websites that continue to knowingly give false and deeply prejudicial information about the case. In the beginning I was swayed by certain sites to see AK and RS as guilty, until I realized that much of the "evidence" still stated there as fact never came out at the trial or was clearly refuted. And considering all the so-called evidence that did make the cut into the trial, the damning stuff that didn't even make it couldn't possibly have a grain of truth.

BBM

I did watch an interview given by AK's parents that stated consideration with respect to legal action had already been discussed. I forget which program it was but was probably within the last week or so.

It is my understanding that some of these sites/newspapers et al have been copied/monitored. They would have legal recourse in my opinion and I must admit that I hope they take some to the cleaners. I would as well hope that certain members of PLE/prosecutors face some charges.

Ultimately though, I sincerely hope that both AK and RS are released, and are able to readjust to life outside of prison. AK has indicated that she would like to be involved in helping people in similar situations. Whatever they decide I hope they are kept safe
 
mmk, i figured. i will take it with a grain of salt. something from a reporters perspective could be interesting!

i do have a question though. what is Amanda's story today? has she made any other statements besides the statement/s implicating Lamumba? did those statements make sense? i have to wonder what statements she will give if she is allowed to go back home.

She did testify at the trial of the first instance as well as give some spontaneous statements to the court then as well during the appeal. It is expected that she will speak to the court on I believe it is Saturday but do not know what she will state
 
This is what bothers me, Steve. I am afraid they will get sidetracked, and I am very worried about the verdict, which may come as early as Saturday. :(

As strange as this may seem SMK after reviewing the C & V report I felt alot more at ease. My concern there was that it would be a lukewarm review, instead it was critical not just of Stephanoni and the lab but of the investigation itself.

I think the pictures that the Kercher lawyer showed backfired. The prosecution had nothing left but character assassination.

Just don't bite any nails off :giggle:
 
I just came across an interview with former FBI agent John Douglas about this case. Douglas is often called the father of criminal profiling and should be familiar to the Websleuths community.

Unarresting the Arrested:FBI Profiler John Douglas on the case against Amanda Knox & Raffaele Sollecito

This article has now disappeared. It is a dead link. I don't know what is going on. (I do have the text saved though.)

ETA: No, it hasn't gone at all. Still there when I clicked that. So no idea what PMF.net is going on about in that case....
 
has anyone here seen the recent lifetime movie on this case? how is it? is it from more of pro guilt or pro innocence perspective? i assume it's from more of an "entertainment" perspective. lol. i'll probably be watching it later tonight. Hayden Panettiere is a weird choice to play Amanda.

I mostly fast forwarded through it. It was pretty awful and got a lot of details wrong, but didn't come down hard on either side. I'm looking forward to some day a high quality theatrical release that deals with issues of false confession and media character assassination. But I'd imagine that would be several years down the road.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
172
Guests online
1,238
Total visitors
1,410

Forum statistics

Threads
602,129
Messages
18,135,252
Members
231,244
Latest member
HollyMcKee
Back
Top