Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #20

[Smelly Squirrel]

Not sure what you mean by garbage... but personally from what I know of the computer evidence, it isn't enough to completely cover their actions for the entirety of that night. However, I'm not one who thinks that a lack of alibi means proof of guilt.

Their actual alibi was each other, and they both claimed to be at Raffaele's apartment that night, sticking with that story up to the interrogation on the night of November fifth when Raf said he couldn't be certain if she was with him all night. Once they were able to lock him up due to evidence that would later turn out to be incorrect, there was no way for one or the other to vouch for that alibi.

ETA: the importance of the computer evidence as argued by the defense is that the the time for them to have killed Meredith is too narrow, as they would have had to complete the entire act within a matter of 15 minutes or so, based on time of death.

Thanks, that article says no computer usage from 9.10pm to 5.32am. How is that too narrow? Is that wrong?

 

[Malkmus]

Thanks, that article says no computer usage from 9.10pm to 5.32am. How is that too narrow? Is that wrong?

It's too narrow based on the stomach contents of the victim showing she was dead by 9:30. Of course the prosecution and last judge, countered that by saying stomach contents are not exact enough to make this determination. We'll have to see what this judge thinks.

Like I said, the computer activity is not really an alibi. Their alibi was each other, broken by an admission by raf that he could not be certain Amanda was with him all night - which he later retracted.

 

[Malkmus]

Also, it's important to note that the police used Raffaele's computer after it was collected for evidence. They played a movie file on it, overwriting metadata that could otherwise have proven his claim that he was on his computer most of the night.

Going off tweets from yesterday, it seems the computer activity was revisited, however I don't know what was specifically argued or new.

 

[sherlockh]

Sherlock, you're implying that I've argued the prints were made by stepping in fruit juice. I have not. I'm not going to look through my old posts to refute this straw man, instead I'm curious if you can explain why the luminol prints show a female foot with a second toe shorter than the big toe, when Amanda's was longer.

ETA: We know some new evidence was prepared by the defense, such as the interrogation of the boys downstairs, showing one of them scaled the wall. Also, the revelation that the police had "misplaced" thirty some wiretapped calls between Amanda and Raf. What new evidence has the prosecution brought to the table?

I don't know about a longer toe. Did it come up in the trials? Or is this just one of those internet things? AK's own defense admitted the prints were AK's so why not just accept that? RS's defense said the male prints were made after Rudy lost his shoe in the struggle with Meredith. So they are admitting the prints were made in blood. Big problem for AK's defense.

Thirty misplaced calls out of thousands. How is that even important? The prosecutions 'new evidence' is RG and everything from his trials. Not sure why they would need any new evidence?

 

[Malkmus]

I don't know about a longer toe. Did it come up in the trials? Or is this just one of those internet things? AK's own defense admitted the prints were AK's so why not just accept that? RS's defense said the male prints were made after Rudy lost his shoe in the struggle with Meredith. So they are admitting the prints were made in blood. Big problem for AK's defense.

Thirty misplaced calls out of thousands. How is that even important? The prosecutions 'new evidence' is RG and everything from his trials. Not sure why they would need any new evidence?

Sherlock, I don't believe the toe length was brought up in the first trial, a lot of stuff wasn't. Here is the print:





The point isn't whether some of the prints belong to Amanda or not. The point is that there is a print of a female who isn't Amanda... meaning that either there was an unknown woman who stepped in blood and was part of the murder, or (as has been stated by many experts and manuals on Luminol) it is a reaction to something other than blood made by one of the other roommates.

As far as the lost bugged phone calls... at what point does one recognize incompetence in Perugian law enforcement? Three burned hard drives, can't match a shoeprint, more than 50 errors in collection of forensic evidence, forgetting to record Amanda's interrogation, producing false files to the judge, letting witnesses tamper evidence before collection, and on and on and on... I mean you could write a book on their mistakes made.

 

[Malkmus]

I guess this is the prosecution's new strategy today:

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Mignini pantomiming Sollecito smoking a cigarette, trying to make him look shifty. #amandaknox

Mignini bashing press, says the American press responsible 4 polarization & misinformation. Howls of protest in the pressroom. #amandaknox

To the pantomiming: sounds hilarious.

To the American press being responsible for misinformation: What has that got to do with an Italian jury, or evidence presented in court?

Ok, bedtime, 'night all...

 

[sherlockh]

Sherlock, I don't believe the toe length was brought up in the first trial, a lot of stuff wasn't. Here is the print:

The point isn't whether some of the prints belong to Amanda or not. The point is that there is a print of a female who isn't Amanda... meaning that either there was an unknown woman who stepped in blood and was part of the murder, or (as has been stated by many experts and manuals on Luminol) it is a reaction to something other than blood made by one of the other roommates.

As far as the lost bugged phone calls... at what point does one recognize incompetence in Perugian law enforcement? Three burned hard drives, can't match a shoeprint, more than 50 errors in collection of forensic evidence, forgetting to record Amanda's interrogation, producing false files to the judge, letting witnesses tamper evidence before collection, and on and on and on... I mean you could write a book on their mistakes made.

Footprints are not fingerprints. IMO footprints are not always exactly the same, even from the same person. I would need more info than just the big toe. Or even better, I rather leave the decision with the experts. I think it is telling enough the defense didn't bring it up though.

Half of your list is internet nonsense. Made up stuff that never made it to trial or was effectively rebutted by the prosecution/forensics. Sure mistakes were made, nobody is perfect, but they did not interfere with the conclusions of the investigations. There was just too much evidence pointing at the 3 murderers.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't think there is any argument if the break-in is physically impossible. It just never was a very logical choice.

Well, there goes the entire "the break-in must have been staged" theory.

Do you realise what you're saying there? Just because you think that particular window wasn't the most logical choice for a burglar, that proves there was no burglary and the break-in was staged?

Frankly, that is a completely ridiculous standpoint.

 

[sherlockh]

Well, there goes the entire "the break-in must have been staged" theory.

Do you realise what you're saying there? Just because you think that particular window wasn't the most logical choice for a burglar, that proves there was no burglary and the break-in was staged?

Frankly, that is a completely ridiculous standpoint.

I didn't say that at all. For reasons why the burglary was staged I refer to the judges report of the first trial. The argument that it was physically impossible to break into that window is not one of them.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Fairly new to this case. This may be old ground for most here, but a question for any AK/RS supporter, why isn't their alibi obviously garbage?

Amanda Knox trial: police cast doubt on computer alibi - Telegraph

The defense also claims that a file (Naruto) was opened around 9:26. The prosecution, having damaged four hard drives, does not have much credibility with me with respect to what they say about computers. There is also the issue of the screensaver log file that was discussed in the amendment to Raffaele's appeal. The stomach/duodenum contents suggest a TOD between 9 and 10, but closer to 9.

 

[otto]

"Femme fatale or unjustly-framed innocent?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15036490

It does look like Bongiorno sold-out Knox as a dominatrix.

How do Knox supporters feel about this?

 

[SMK]

I am going to bet that the ruling will come very quickly after those statements. I don't anticipate a long deliberation maybe a recess or he might just surprise us and announce it but that I would doubt. I will go with short recess and ruling

I think so, too.

 

[SMK]

"Femme fatale or unjustly-framed innocent?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15036490

It does look like Bongiorno sold-out Knox as a dominatrix.

How do Knox supporters feel about this?

I think the idea was simply to get to that line, "I'm not bad; I was just drawn that way." Where in this article do you get the idea she was sold out as a dominatrix???? It reiterates just what I have said here...

 

[Sonata]

I think the idea was simply to get to that line, "I'm not bad; I was just drawn that way." Where in this article do you get the idea she was sold out as a dominatrix???? It reiterates just what I have said here...

Thanks for asking that... I couldn't see it anywhere either but was too chicken to ask in case I was just being stupid... :loser:

 

[SMK]

Thanks for asking that... I couldn't see it anywhere either but was too chicken to ask in case I was just being stupid... :loser:

Well, no need to doubt your own senses!! I looked and looked and read and read and could not find one reference to Knox being sold out as a domanitrix...<modsnip>

 

[Sonata]

Ugh, anyone just read the tweet from BLNadeau about Maresca reminding the jury that Rudy testified as a witness that AK and RS were there?

To me that is almost entirely irrelevant as one would expect him to do so whether true or not.

 

[sherlockh]

Ugh, anyone just read the tweet from BLNadeau about Maresca reminding the jury that Rudy testified as a witness that AK and RS were there?

To me that is almost entirely irrelevant as one would expect him to do so whether true or not.

Rudy testifying as a witness means he can get sued for slander and get years added to his sentence if he lied. Besides it would have been in his best interest to claim both AK and RS to be innocent. In that case he could try and jump on the 'all forensic evidence is invalid' train. However he didn't lie and his testimony is a very serious piece of evidence.

 

[Monzoo]

Ugh, anyone just read the tweet from BLNadeau about Maresca reminding the jury that Rudy testified as a witness that AK and RS were there?

To me that is almost entirely irrelevant as one would expect him to do so whether true or not.

This is also a lie. Rudy never testified in this case. Mignini read a letter written by him, but he didn't testify. The defense was never allowed to question him.

 

[Sonata]

Rudy testifying as a witness means he can get sued for slander and get years added to his sentence if he lied. Besides it would have been in his best interest to claim both AK and RS to be innocent. In that case he could try and jump on the 'all forensic evidence is invalid' train. However he didn't lie and his testimony is a very serious piece of evidence.

He doesn't strike me as intelligent enough to make that claim. He is sticking to his story. Most of his DNA evidence is already confirmed by his ridiculous story of that night. Is any of it not?

His testimony is serious but that doesn't mean that what he said is an indication of the truth in terms of Ak and RS's involvement that night which is exactly what Maresca is presenting it as.

 

[SMK]

Ugh, anyone just read the tweet from BLNadeau about Maresca reminding the jury that Rudy testified as a witness that AK and RS were there?

To me that is almost entirely irrelevant as one would expect him to do so whether true or not.

Of course; hope the jury and judges will remember this....