Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[otto]

The documents she signed were in Italian. I just checked the photocopies.
The English translations are not official police documents.

I don't recall when Anna Donnino came into the interrogation, or if that's known even. I'd more or less assumed she was there the entire time.

From memory, I remember looking into it when there was a lot of discussion about whether she had a translator. Curt Knox insisted that there was no translator. During testimony, Knox said that she had one. I seem to recall that the translator arrived about an hour into Knox's witness statement.

Curt has reverted to his initial statements in recent days, once again claiming that Knox was interrogated by a gang of 15, beaten, deprived of food, water and bathroom breaks for 50 hours nonstop ... that there was no interpreter ... and so on.

 

[Malkmus]

From memory, I remember looking into it when there was a lot of discussion about whether she had a translator. Curt Knox insisted that there was no translator. During testimony, Knox said that she had one. I seem to recall that the translator arrived about an hour into Knox's witness statement.

Curt has reverted to his initial statements in recent days, once again claiming that Knox was interrogated by a gang of 15, beaten, deprived of food, water and bathroom breaks for 50 hours nonstop ... that there was no interpreter ... and so on.

I think the main problem with Anna Donnino is that she was not an official interpreter, but rather a police officer who happened to speak English. As such, her role in the interrogation is questionable. She is the one Amanda claims told her to imagine being at the cottage that night, that she had been traumatized, and for telling Knox she was a stupid liar. I believe Curt feels there should have been an official, impartial translator who could make sure communication between the two parties was clear. Should Curt be more specific? Sure. Is it misleading? Slightly. Is he biased? Of course.

I believe the food and water claims to be true. I haven't heard the "50 hours nonstop" line, but if he is indicating that she was interrogated for two days straight with no sleep, than that is an exaggeration, as it was closer to 50 hours over the course of 5 days. I honestly believe that he words these things in such a way because it's the quickest way to explain the circumstances without a lot of confusing details.

 

[Steft50]

Posted on another site a little while ago.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...anda-Knox-for-8million.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News



I just really hope this article is not accurate for multiple reasons, one of whichi is it makes the Kerchers sound like they are only in it for the money.

 

[Malkmus]

Posted on another site a little while ago.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...anda-Knox-for-8million.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News



I just really hope this article is not accurate for multiple reasons, one of whichi is it makes the Kerchers sound like they are only in it for the money.

I'd take it with a grain of salt. Last we heard from the Kerchers they were seeking new legal counsel and waiting to read the judge's report before forming an opinion.

 

[Allusonz]

From memory, I remember looking into it when there was a lot of discussion about whether she had a translator. Curt Knox insisted that there was no translator. During testimony, Knox said that she had one. I seem to recall that the translator arrived about an hour into Knox's witness statement.

Curt has reverted to his initial statements in recent days, once again claiming that Knox was interrogated by a gang of 15, beaten, deprived of food, water and bathroom breaks for 50 hours nonstop ... that there was no interpreter ... and so on.

In her testimony Anna Donnino stated that she was a mediator rather than a mere tranlator of words. AK did not initially have anyone there. Anna Donnino arrived later.

 

[Allusonz]

From memory, I remember looking into it when there was a lot of discussion about whether she had a translator. Curt Knox insisted that there was no translator. During testimony, Knox said that she had one. I seem to recall that the translator arrived about an hour into Knox's witness statement.

Curt has reverted to his initial statements in recent days, once again claiming that Knox was interrogated by a gang of 15, beaten, deprived of food, water and bathroom breaks for 50 hours nonstop ... that there was no interpreter ... and so on.

Not sure how one would get 50 hours into 24 hours.

AK was on the phone with Filomena talking about finding a new place. AK had to disconnect from the conversation at 10:40 PM as the PLE wanted to speak with her.

This is supported by not only the phone records but since they also were bugging all the phone calls that call has been heard.

 

[Allusonz]

Posted on another site a little while ago.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...anda-Knox-for-8million.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News



I just really hope this article is not accurate for multiple reasons, one of whichi is it makes the Kerchers sound like they are only in it for the money.

I believe much like Malkmus stated I would wait on this as the Kercher's did state that they would be seeking the advice of a different lawyer. My personal opinion is that if the Kercher's, AK, and RS were smart they would group together and go after PLE

 

[gitana1]

Then why don't you provide a quote from that 17 page document, or a link? The satanic cult theory in another case was not his idea. This was a case he took over from other prosecutors. If you don't know the details of other cases then I don't see how you can draw a parallel with this case. There is no point in that anyway. It never had any affect on this case. Any other prosecutor would have done the same as he. There even were other prosecutors in this case. Now even the judge himself has stated he would have done the same had he been a prosecutor. What more needs to be said?

I cannot find a link to the report, but certainly, the report exists (they issue reports after ever hearing in Italy and a real journalist could lose their career reporting something that is false) and I'm sure if it wasn't in there, this denunciation, Mignini would have been waving that report around proving the judge never mentioned that as a theory of his. Clearly, the Italian court issued a committal hearing report. That I cannot link to it, does not mean it doesn't exist or doesn't denounce Mignini's theory.

Further, Mignini said he didn't accuse Knox, Sollecito and Guede of doing a "sacrificial rite" but he did not deny, IIRC, accusing them of Satanism or a satanic ritual of some sort. His letter to a channel 5 news reporter stating this, repeated sacrificial rite over and over again, and never mentioned satanism, and can be found via this link (to an anti-Knox site): http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...some_helpful_advice_to_a_factually_challenge/

As to the Florence case, yes, he took the case over from former prosecutors but you state Mignini got the satanic cult theory from those former prosecutors, rather than coming up with it on his own. That's not what ABC says:

Decades passed with no resolution and then, in 2002, Mignini re-opened the case. He didn't buy into the lone psychopathic killer theory. Instead, he claimed, the murders were the work of a satanic sect, dating back to the Middle Ages, that needed female body parts for their black masses, to serve as the blasphemous wafer. http://abcnews.go.com/International...-seeking-revenge-redemption/story?id=14623904

20 people were charged as a result of Mignini's antics. Two journalists state they were harassed and interrogated by him, one jailed for several weeks as a result, because their theories conflicted with his. And, Mignini has been charged with misconduct and sentenced to time for his role in that investigation. Is all of that fiction? Is everyone lying but him?

The Knox case, by many accounts, was his chance at redemption and yet we all heard fantastical theories from him that, no matter how many times he states did not include a sacrificial rite, clearly included ties to "Lucifer" and "Satan", words which he repeated many times during the prosecution of Knox, and which included facts that make the murder seem as if part of some satanic rite, whether or not he used those precise words (satanic ritual).

IMO, this man has a serious problem and it confuses me that anyone would trust him or base their belief in Knox's guilt on what this man says. If we had a prosecutor like that in a case here in the U.S., we'd all be howling mad and screaming about corruption (like in the Tonya Craft case).

P.S., Sorry for replying so late. I went on a trip to Portland OR for four days. Yay!

 

[Allusonz]

She did cartwheels and the splits. She claims that the police asked her to do that. Police have stated that they told her to cut it out. Anne Bremner claims she was a restless teenager.

In her testimony she stated that she was doing some yoga stretches when police asked her about the cartwheel.

 

[Allusonz]

I cannot find a link to the report, but certainly, the report exists (they issue reports after ever hearing in Italy and a real journalist could lose their career reporting something that is false) and I'm sure if it wasn't in there, this denunciation, Mignini would have been waving that report around proving the judge never mentioned that as a theory of his. Clearly, the Italian court issued a committal hearing report. That I cannot link to it, does not mean it doesn't exist or doesn't denounce Mignini's theory.

Further, Mignini said he didn't accuse Knox, Sollecito and Guede of doing a "sacrificial rite" but he did not deny, IIRC, accusing them of Satanism or a satanic ritual of some sort. His letter to a channel 5 news reporter stating this, repeated sacrificial rite over and over again, and never mentioned satanism, and can be found via this link (to an anti-Knox site): http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php...some_helpful_advice_to_a_factually_challenge/

As to the Florence case, yes, he took the case over from former prosecutors but you state Mignini got the satanic cult theory from those former prosecutors, rather than coming up with it on his own. That's not what ABC says:

Decades passed with no resolution and then, in 2002, Mignini re-opened the case. He didn't buy into the lone psychopathic killer theory. Instead, he claimed, the murders were the work of a satanic sect, dating back to the Middle Ages, that needed female body parts for their black masses, to serve as the blasphemous wafer. http://abcnews.go.com/International...-seeking-revenge-redemption/story?id=14623904

20 people were charged as a result of Mignini's antics. Two journalists state they were harassed and interrogated by him, one jailed for several weeks as a result, because their theories conflicted with his. And, Mignini has been charged with misconduct and sentenced to time for his role in that investigation. Is all of that fiction? Is everyone lying but him?

The Knox case, by many accounts, was his chance at redemption and yet we all heard fantastical theories from him that, no matter how many times he states did not include a sacrificial rite, clearly included ties to "Lucifer" and "Satan", words which he repeated many times during the prosecution of Knox, and which included facts that make the murder seem as if part of some satanic rite, whether or not he used those precise words (satanic ritual).

IMO, this man has a serious problem and it confuses me that anyone would trust him or base their belief in Knox's guilt on what this man says. If we had a prosecutor like that in a case here in the U.S., we'd all be howling mad and screaming about corruption (like in the Tonya Craft case).

P.S., Sorry for replying so late. I went on a trip to Portland OR for four days. Yay!

I may have the sentencing report of Mignini and the hearing in which the judge rejected Mignini's satanic ritual motive. I will take a look on some of my backups for you

 

[Allusonz]

I read Lumumba's statements regarding Amanda and it does appear he was having issues with her. It was his account of her after the murder but, I think he is being honest and I would assume he shared his thoughts to others before any of this came about.

I was interested to hear Dr Glass' analysis of AK on WS radio tonight and I was not very impressed. Basically, she said AK's demeanor has been consistant with that of a typical college student abroad. To me AK is anything but, typical and I am surprised that is how even the Dr explained her behavior. People who believe she is innocent will either make excuses for her or just don't see her behavioral quirks I suppose.

I don't think this is the forum to discuss this in so I apologize but, this is the only forum I belong to. I am always interested in the human behavior aspect of these cases. I really believe Amanda's uniqueness within her demeanor, actions and statements is why she ended up convicted in the first place. I'm not saying it was right, but I can see why both views of guilt vs innocence exists.

I don't believe anyone that posts here thinks that she is perfect. All of the girls upstairs smoked pot, had boyfriends, went to clubs etc. like half of the college students around the world.

The problem usually comes when an investigator forms a hypothesis and the evidence does not back that theory. If you then add in the cultural differences, language issues, a unique judicial system, and a prosecutor that has been charged with abuse of office, shoddy forensic collection, not sealing the crime scene properly, including Stephanoni and other PLE officials that committed perjury, you end up with a case that will be studied for years

 

[Allusonz]

here were two prosecutors in charge of the case. Why is one held responsible for all of their decisions?

Probably since he was in charge of the investigation not Comodi. Unlike in many countries there is not a separation of LE and prosecutor where LE does the investigation and presents the findings to the prosecutor. In Italy Mignini was in charge of it. That does not mean to say that Comodi did not pull some fast ones either though

 

[Allusonz]

How did she know about his alibi? He told her that there were no customers and that she didn't need to come to work.

Once again as stated in her testimony, she turned her cell phone off in case it did become busy so that they could spend the evening together. In those initial days immediately after the three were arrested I had no reason to suspect that PLE were not truthful with respect to what had happened.

I do become suspicious when a prosecutor announces to the world "Case Closed" after 4 days without even having forensic evidence back. Once again it reminded me of the Duke Lacrosse case

 

[Allusonz]

If I were called into a police station at 11:30 at night I would want a lawyer with me. But that still doesn't answer my question - did she ask for a lawyer before the incriminating PL story, or not? TIA

Filomena and Laura both called their lawyers immediately before a body was even found. Incidental information like this does make one pause

 

[Allusonz]

It's not an easy case to get familiar with. There are bits and pieces all over the place and it's almost impossible to figure out what is fact in plain English. Much evidence is left for speculation. Are there transcripts to read or anything that can be used as complete fact?

Here is a site slanted towards the innocent site. I believe though that there is alot of information here that can bring you up to speed on the issues. Good Luck in your journey

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/index.html

 

[Allusonz]

Uh, oh, am I gonna lose grade points on my postings because of my spelling? :giggle:

Well, you missed this post, which will answer your question re: my book-buying intentions (emboldened below) My husband and budget appreciate the concern though.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7184028&postcount=1055

Nah it is a TM spelling now my story sticking to it thus you aced it lol

Hey I gave you up to 4 million copies :giggle:

Just remember wine not pliers. Just think of all the stuff we learned about ear piercings, infections, blood clotting factors . I know I was killing myself with laughter . Wine as I recall also thins the blood or makes you tipsy :giggle:

 

[otto]

I think the main problem with Anna Donnino is that she was not an official interpreter, but rather a police officer who happened to speak English. As such, her role in the interrogation is questionable. She is the one Amanda claims told her to imagine being at the cottage that night, that she had been traumatized, and for telling Knox she was a stupid liar. I believe Curt feels there should have been an official, impartial translator who could make sure communication between the two parties was clear. Should Curt be more specific? Sure. Is it misleading? Slightly. Is he biased? Of course.

I believe the food and water claims to be true. I haven't heard the "50 hours nonstop" line, but if he is indicating that she was interrogated for two days straight with no sleep, than that is an exaggeration, as it was closer to 50 hours over the course of 5 days. I honestly believe that he words these things in such a way because it's the quickest way to explain the circumstances without a lot of confusing details.

I agree that Knox, Sollecito, the roommates and even the British friends were questioned several times during the days following the murder. Knox's experience was not unique. The problem with Knox and Sollecito is that their statements were proven false and so police had no choice but to ask them to return to clarify their statements. Had there been one truth from the beginning, perhaps their questioning periods would have been shorter.

On the night that Knox accused Patrick, she had only been at the station for 2 hours and she had eaten dinner shortly before arriving. Therefore, claims that she was deprived of anything and thus accused Patrick don't add up.

I have heard rumors that the interpreter worked for the police, but to suggest that the interpreter came up with questions not provided by those questioning Knox is farfetched. Knox didn't speak Italian, so how would she know whether police had asked a question and the interpreter was repeating it or whether the interpreter came up with the questions independently.

 

[Nova]

Wait, "guilty people that [have no representation] & are not convicted . . . " ? Who are these people? How could they NOT be included? There would be legal record of their crime, sentence, outcome, etc. (I assume). Not that it matters to this case . . . but I've been part of many quantitative & qualitative analyses & when there is a "gap" in data collection, it's noted. I don't see that as the case in the studies linked as reference.

But very interested in the data :floorlaugh: oh, and sorry to bring up the past, catching up w/this thread

I think otto meant that such people cannot be identified and therefore cannot be counted as a separate group.

 

[Nova]

"What’s more galling? Amanda Knox making out with her co-defendant boyfriend hours after Meredith Kercher was stabbed to death, or Amanda Knox crying tears of self-pleasure after being acquitted of murder despite overwhelming evidence of her guilt?

The most horrifying part of this story is the way it proves our collective stupidity. If a guilty criminal spends enough money on PR, we can be persuaded that up is down, and a murderer is a national hero."

http://www.enterprisenews.com/archi...shadows-facts-in-Knox-acquittal#ixzz1aJhNTolg

Oh, good Lord! If you believe Wendy Murphy, no defendant has been innocent since Jesus Christ Himself!

But if you insist on repeating this spin that the acquittals were "bought" by AK's (oddly, not very rich) family, then I think you should at least show us receipts for money spent on p.r.

We already know the $1 million figure was for the entire defense, not just p.r. efforts.

And then when you've done that, I hope people will consider that it wasn't p.r. statements that convinced most of us of AK's and RS' innocence, it was the lack of evidence of their guilt. It doesn't take a p.r. firm to present no evidence.

 

[Sonata]

Like I said, she made the statements about Patrick as a witness and witnesses do not have lawyers while giving a statement to police.

But didn't Filomena immediately get a lawyer? She was only ever a witness.