Mexico Mexico - Jennifer Seitz, 36, Cruise ship passenger near Cancun, Dec 2008

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Listen to this... and tell me if you feel something is off? I mean... he claims to be her brother, though he refused to let his name be released or to be on camera ( I do understand not going on camera... but to withhold name... odd) ... and he praises her husband, grandly. This person was NOT on the ship, yet he speaks like he knew her every move on the trip... and he gets angry at the passengers on the ship for things they have reported... he says they are lying. This is... supposedly HER brother...

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/r...her-speaks-to-gma/365363578/?icid=VIDURVNWS09
 
They are larger than life people.

Passengers were upset people around the world knew so much more about what happened than those who were on the ship.

The balconies are very high. You'd have to have a chair or have someone help you to go over.

An announcement over the loudspeaker at 3:45am asking for Jennifer Dites to contact security.

They played the Newlywed game. The question to them - where is the craziest place you have made whoopie?

Ray said on cruise ship balconies, cruise ship, etc. inferring they had been on loads of cruises and made whoopie all over the ship. The gal talking who was a passenger on the cruise said when Ray got up to take the stage it was obvious he had been drinking.

More coming on an email received:

Denise is a friend of Jen. Jen wanted a baby but would need medical intervention to get pregnant. Said she was happy, but that was said after the head butting incident of domestic abuse!

Would she have left a suicide note? Denise doesn't know, hoping she will be found. Her family quickly determined she might have committed suicide. Jen had never expressed a suicide wish. And although she didn't seem the suicidal type, when Denise talked with her co-workers about this, interestingtly no one jumped up and said, no, she would never commit suicide.

Why is it taking so long to get info off the 1100 cameras? Why did family say she probably took her own life before the FBI finished their report. Next:
 
Thanks for sharing... don't have cable at home, so I have to rely on you guys to report back.
 
Elphaba said:
Thanks for sharing... don't have cable at home, so I have to rely on you guys to report back.
Click to expand...

You got it Sweetie! Interesting questions I think. I can't type that fast, but hit the high points. ;}
 
In reading Jen's MySpace blogs from Bitten & Bound link she does seem to acknowledge that she has had issues with alcohol i the past. It's also important to understand that gastric bypass (or roux-en-Y) patients have a very low tolerence to alcohol post op since rather than the booze sitting in the stomach and being mixed with enzymes it goes directly to the intestines where it is absorbed into the blood stream.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/14/health/webmd/main2931805.shtml

It's also very well documented that many post-ops can develop alcoholsim at hight rates (transfer addiction food for booze)

From the sounds of things, Jennifer may have been pretty drunk. And it appears from reading her blogs she did have a very LARGE personality - which may indicate a personality disorder. Mixed together with perhaps a fight wth hubby - it's very possible she did throw herself overboard.

This could explain why she was so happy go lucky one minute and then suicidal the next. Perhaps she was even in a blackout.
 
I still think it might be how I played it out , she was drunk VERY Drunk. Maybe they had made whoopie right there on that balcony (anyone know if they had been on this ship before) or similar
She was up there feeling all melancoly miserable and pi$$ed and got on a chair
swaying and rocking and uh oh over she goes!

Is there ANY Footage online of the woman going over yet ?
 
Cameras = Conclusive or pose more questions than answers: Gal who works for cruise ship:

1100 cameras. Rotating images, so you never see one site continually. The balconies come up to mid chest for a 5' 7" person. Hard to get up over balcony or rail by yourself.

Could be other cameras that have caught images, but the FBI won't let us know this yet.

How can investigators tell if a suicide, accident, murder, etc: Mark Furman on phone

The chair is by balcony rail in the FBI photo and the door to the stateroom is open. Mark says this doesn't add up as all the hubby would have had to do is look out the door and see a chair had been pulled up to the rail. 2 + 2 doesn't equal 7:eek: Then the hubby says he looks everywhere else for 7 or so hours before reporting she is not to be found. Fishy



I'm thinking that must mean if one were to pull a chair up to that rail, if one stood on the rail and jumped they would go into the ocean and not flat onto a deck below. I still wonder about that having looked at a photo of the ship.




LE {FBI} has not said he has been cleared They have a lot of time and they use it which is their style.

No reports of her having tried to commit suicide before.

OMG, my mom called and I missed the rest of the segment. Sorry


PS: I think Mark thinks the hubby is deep into her going into the ocean.
 
gooniequeen said:
The post you are referring to was written in 1/08 and Ray was married to Jen. you are looking to the left at his surgery date which was 2/02. His ex- wifes name is Wendy btw.
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Actually, I was referring to his surgery support page which was written when he actually had the surgery on 2002- the updates as to how the surgery had gone, that he was on pain meds, recuperating well, etc, and it referenced his then-wife and that she was passing along the info to his "angel" which I assume is a support person on the website. I did see the thing he wrote in 2008, though, that you are talking about. What I initially read was someone else making reference to his wife at time of surgery.

The drunk-I'm-jumping scenario sounds plausible, but the timeline still concerns me. Who goes to bed that early on a cruise? I would barely be done with dinner. I am a frequent napper, but that is too late even for a nap lover like me to take a nap, and way too early for bedtime on a cruise. Although I guess since it was nearly the end of the cruise, maybe he was just dog-tired.

And if she was schizophrenic or bi-polar, there is really no telling what might have been going on in her mind. I had a dear friend who was bi-polar and it was just really, really awful for her, and a family member who is schizophrenic, and both situations can be very, very difficult. It might also explain why her first marriage was so brief- maybe neither of them realized the extent of the (alleged) problem and it was just more than their relationship could take.

If she did jump over or fall over on her own, his behavior was very peculiar, but giving him benefit of the doubt, perhaps he was in shock??? I don't really think so, but I like to look at both sides.
 
JaneInOz said:
I still think it might be how I played it out , she was drunk VERY Drunk. Maybe they had made whoopie right there on that balcony (anyone know if they had been on this ship before) or similar
She was up there feeling all melancoly miserable and pi$$ed and got on a chair
swaying and rocking and uh oh over she goes!

Is there ANY Footage online of the woman going over yet ?
Click to expand...


Hane, I love your posts so don't ever change :) It is your spirit in dem bones. YaYa

The interesting thing is there was mention of the hubby obviously a bit under the influence when they played the game. The only thing I heard about her was the Dom Perignon and she didn't want to go to bed but rather stay up drinking. That comes from the hubby and maybe the mother. It might be what they want us to believe.

Was she an alcoholic or have a drinking problem? I thought I read because of her bypass surgery she couldn't drink very much.
 
Elphaba said:
Listen to this... and tell me if you feel something is off? I mean... he claims to be her brother, though he refused to let his name be released or to be on camera ( I do understand not going on camera... but to withhold name... odd) ... and he praises her husband, grandly. This person was NOT on the ship, yet he speaks like he knew her every move on the trip... and he gets angry at the passengers on the ship for things they have reported... he says they are lying. This is... supposedly HER brother...

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/r...her-speaks-to-gma/365363578/?icid=VIDURVNWS09
Click to expand...


Good link, Elphaba,

I don't think it odd that her brother wouldn't want to give his name. It is common enough (assuming his last name is Ellis) that people won't be able to track him down and hound him if he doesn't give it out. They also said something about his job being the reason he doesn't want to give his name, and I def. understand not wanting to make trouble at work.

And as for him supporting his BIL, well, maybe he know that his sister really, truly had a lot of problems and his BIL was supportive of her anyway. He could actually be a good guy. Perhaps there is a lot more behind that head-butting, too. Who knows?

There are a lot of pictures in the video that make Ray look a lot less creepy, btw. I guess people just don't look their best in mug shots. :crazy:


I wonder how he will justify his gambling later that day, though....
 
Kimberlina said:
Good link, Elphaba,

I don't think it odd that her brother wouldn't want to give his name. It is common enough (assuming his last name is Ellis) that people won't be able to track him down and hound him if he doesn't give it out. They also said something about his job being the reason he doesn't want to give his name, and I def. understand not wanting to make trouble at work.

And as for him supporting his BIL, well, maybe he know that his sister really, truly had a lot of problems and his BIL was supportive of her anyway. He could actually be a good guy. Perhaps there is a lot more behind that head-butting, too. Who knows?

There are a lot of pictures in the video that make Ray look a lot less creepy, btw. I guess people just don't look their best in mug shots. :crazy:


I wonder how he will justify his gambling later that day, though....
Click to expand...


Yeh well I wouldnt have married him :eek: shh now did I say that LMAO !
ICK

Tsk tsk I know shouldn't judge a book by its cover and whats one persons diamond is another piece of coal

;)

Hane, I love your posts so don't ever change It is your spirit in dem bones. YaYa

The interesting thing is there was mention of the hubby obviously a bit under the influence when they played the game. The only thing I heard about her was the Dom Perignon and she didn't want to go to bed but rather stay up drinking. That comes from the hubby and maybe the mother. It might be what they want us to believe.

Was she an alcoholic or have a drinking problem? I thought I read because of her bypass surgery she couldn't drink very much.
Click to expand...

Hane ? hmmm lol

Thank you Scandi thats very sweet of you :blowkiss:

My mind is a rocking as much as that ship on a stormy sea atm !! one minute Im thinking def the hubby next Im thinking accident

But one thing i am sure of .....................

IT WASNT SUICIDE
 
ITA - she did NOT deliberately take her own life! I'm trying to be fair and withhold judgment, but there is certainly something strange here with RS (and possibly her mother). AND, as Kimberlina alluded to, I'm still having a problem with him nonchalantly heading off to the casino after she went overboard, looking to "change his luck". EWWW.
 
I can't get past the husband gambling cheerfully the next day either. Even if he didn't have a hand in it, WHO can do that after their spouse has possibly committed suicide?! I know people grieve in different ways, but that just seems... really, really odd.

It bugs me that the media (and even her family) seems to be saying "Of COURSE it was suicide - she was bipolar, you know," as if a diagnosis of bipolar disorder makes you an obvious candidate for suicide. A little more likely to commit suicide, maybe, but not a suicide just waiting to happen by ANY means. It seems like they're using it as a very convenient excuse.
 
From what I have read: rumor has it that the video only shows someone caught going overboard... that it was a night vision camera and it did not capture the exact act of her on the balcony going over... and it didn't capture her hitting the water. If this is true, then it makes sense that the FBI is treating this like an open case of really not knowing if it was a suicide or criminal act put upon her sending her overboard. What confuses me is that she goes over at 8pm, per the video. The brother states that she would get up around midnight and walk the ship... hubby got up at around 2 and went looking for her and couldn't find her, then woke up the mother and finally they went to the ship personnel. So... where was the husband at 8pm? There seems to be little that makes sense... and I don't understand how her family can instantly write it off as a suicide, when the authority is still investigating it.

What got me about the brother's interview: him talking about how good the husband was to this lady... how well he treated her. Yeah... nothing says "good husband" like an arrest on domestic violence earlier in the year. :|
 
Just my opinion on a couple of things.

The statement from the Ellis and Seitz families said in part: "The family suspects that Jennifer chose an unfortunate ending to her life. She was a beautiful and caring person and will be truly missed by all who love her."

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If that's what they think may have happened at this point, that's what they think. They knew her best.

Full statement here: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...seitz-family-statement-122908,0,3682856.story

Fellow passenger Jim Nestor says in the video that when he saw Raymond Seitz at some point after, Raymond said he was told by the captain he could get out of being confined to a room if he was to stay to his own and not deal with any other passengers on the ship. Then, "He had a plastic bag filled with quarters and he said he was going to the casino to see if he could change his luck." Yeah, sounds odd but we don't know the full context and what kind of mental state Raymond was in at that point (shock, upset, anger, etc.).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28419077/
 
Here's somewhat of a timeline I tried to piece together.


Norwegian Pearl Itinerary - Dec 21-28, 2008
  • Day 1, Dec 21: Miami -- 04:00 PM
  • Day 2, Dec 22: At Sea 06:30 PM --
  • Day 3, Dec 23: Roatan 08:00 AM 05:00 PM
  • Day 4, Dec 24: Belize City 08:00 AM 05:00 PM
  • Day 5, Dec 25: Cozumel 08:00 AM 05:00 PM
  • Day 6, Dec 26: At Sea -- --
  • Day 7, Dec 27: Great Stirrup Cay 09:00 AM 06:00 PM
  • Day 8, Dec 28: Miami 08:00 AM --
Thursday, Dec 25th (Christmas Day)
  • Daytime: Activities unknown
  • Jennifer and Ray had argued about her drinking at some point during the day. When he asked her to slow down a bit, she offhandedly threatened to jump off the ship.
  • Jennifer and her mother Donna also had words that evening about Jennifer’s drinking.
  • Sometime before 8:08PM:
    • In the evening, Jennifer and her mother Donna met another passenger aboard the ship that they referred to as “the engineer.” The man came back to their cabin where he ordered up two bottles of Dom Perignon. According to sources, the man “drank himself sick” and vomited in their shower before going back to his own cabin alone.
    • It is believed that Donna had left the cabin at this point, and Raymond was beckoning Jennifer to stop drinking and come to bed. She refused and continued to drink - rambling, which sources say she did at times. When Jennifer exhibited this behavior on previous occasions, her family instructed Ray to “tune her out,” telling him “it will pass.”
    • Raymond went to sleep.
  • 8:08PM: Infrared surveillance video on the ship showed a person going overboard
Friday, Dec 26th
  • ~1:00AM: Raymond awoke and Jennifer was not in the cabin. He walked the ship looking for her. (Family statement later released said it was common for her to walk the ship when she was unable to sleep.)
  • ~2:00AM: Raymond went back to the cabin and woke Donna to ask her if she knew where Jennifer was. She, like Raymond, believed Jennifer was probably walking the decks, and when the two of them couldn’t find her, they notified the cruise line.
  • ~3:50AM: Raymond and Donna reported Jennifer missing to cruise ship security personnel (about 8 hours had elapsed)
  • Cruise ship personnel conducted a comprehensive search of the ship with negative results
  • ~7:00AM: Cruise ship personnel contacted the Coast Guard for assistance (about 11 hours had elapsed)
Friday, Dec 26th through Monday, Dec 29th
  • Coast Guard and Mexican naval vessels conducted an "exhaustive" search through the weekend covering more 4,200 square miles off the popular resort town of Cancun
  • They found no sign of Seitz – conditions were adverse with strong waves
Sunday, Dec 28th
  • Norwegian Pearl docked in Miami
  • FBI agents met the ship to collect materials; review videos, interview, etc. and are still trying to determine if a crime occurred
Monday, Dec 29th
  • Search suspended by U.S. Coast Guard
References:

http://www.bittenandbound.com/
http://origin-www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/miami/sfl-flbmissing1229sbdec29,0,3776052.story
http://www.twinfishinterline.com/travel/cruise/sailplan.rvlx?CruiseItineraryID=108296
 
There seems to be a lack of communication. From day one, news of this story did not have Jennifer’s correct last name.

This quote has her already dead and gone:

"The family suspects that Jennifer chose an unfortunate ending to her life. She was a beautiful and caring person and will be truly missed by all who love her."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...seitz-family-statement-122908,0,3682856.story


In addition, “the family” could have been a quote from Jennifer’s husband and the writer simply quoted it from “the family” (whoever that is?).
 
I don't see whats so unbelievable that after an afternoon of drinking hubby may have fallen asleep at 8pm. I can easily do this.

Not saying i buy into the whole theory of suicide and/or murder. I'm just saying it's not out of the realm of possibility that if she did commit suicide he was asleep.

and agian I will state from first hand experience Gastric Bypass patients CAN and DO drink, however booze has a much more extreme effect on us.
 
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