Found Deceased Mexico - Kevin, 41, Amy, 38, Sterling, 12, & Adrianna Sharp, 7, Tulum, 15 March 2018

[katydid23]

Does a gas water heater leak only when hot water is being used, or can it leak all of the time, anyway?

 

[jjenny]

Does a gas water heater leak only when hot water is being used, or can it leak all of the time, anyway?

It's still hearing the water even if you are not using it. So you don't have to be using the hot water to be poisoned.

 

[Hatfield]

Does a gas water heater leak only when hot water is being used, or can it leak all of the time, anyway?

I know the answer because I had a water heater installed and know how they work.

Even when not running hot water the water heater will occasionally kick ON to keep the water at a certain temperature. This is so you can have hot water at the ready whenever you turn on your faucet.

So even when not running hot water the heater will kick on at times.

Obviously it will run more when you take a shower or bath or do a load of dishes because then you drain all the hot water out of the tank and then the heater will run for awhile to heat all that water backup.

So if there is a leak in the leak in the venting then it will leak whenever it kicks on to heat up the water. Even if you have not run hot water in awhile. Obviously it may produce more bad gas after you take a shower or bath or do dishes but it does not mean you wont still have accumulations of bad gas over time even if you are not running hot water.

It has to keep kicking on by itself to keep the water at a certain temperature. So as the water begins to cool on its own it will kick on to heat it back up.

 

[PrairieWind]

The last I heard, the authorities just said "toxic gas." Has anyone heard a confirmation of CO poisoning. It could have been the actual gas (natural gas) coming in to the stove. We usually associate leaking gas of that type with an explosion, but it call also displace oxygen from the environment and lead to asphixiation. What kind of gas do they use in Mexico, does anyone know? Natural gas, propane, other?

 

[Hatfield]

Thank you, Kourageous Kamille. I simply couldn't help responding, simply because I actually once had the gruesome misfortune of having been called in by my local PD to examine a water heater in similar condition to this one that had also killed somebody (an elderly woman and her two little dogs, actually). I'm not going to get into the details, but the heater had been installed by the cheapest idiot her son could find in the Want-Ad Digest. He charged half as much as the next cheapest guy, and did his work with bathroom caulk and aluminum sheeting he made from soda cans. She was fine for 6 months until the gas finished melting through the caulk, and then she died in bed. Right next to the little dogs.

Anyway, let the lesson be twofold: 1) Don't trust other people's gas-burning appliances, especially in countries with effectively no building codes, and 2) Any sign of black soot around the exhaust tubing on any interior gas-burning appliance is not an "oops, I'd better look into that soon" kind of deal. It's a "turn the SOB off RIGHT NOW and do NOT use it again until an HVAC tech can look at it!!!" kind of deal.

I bet this unit sprung a major leak the very first time it was used in this configuration. I bet it then struggled along for another year or so, blowing off CO all the while, but the levels never got high enough to kill anybody. People probably had headaches and nausea but blamed it on too many margaritas and the old Montezuma's Revenge, then they went home and felt 100% better. That's very common with rental units with gas leaks, and landlords are usually loathe to hear about "Your condo made me sick, but then I got better, you should check it out". They say "ya huh, it gets checked once a year, no bugs and the linens are clean. Don't drink so much next time."

According to what I've read, the temperature was down in the low 70s on the first two nights that the Sharps stayed in the condo. My supposition is that they closed all the windows and each of them took a hot shower or bath (likely after a long flight from the mainland), with one of them then leaving the hot water dripping (or possibly there was a hot water leak somewhere to produce the same result). This made the water heater cycle on and off multiple times per hour, eventually saturating the condo with CO that (with the closed windows and the AC off) they were in no position to survive.

This last part is pure supposition: I'm no Gil Grissom. But I know for 100% certainty that hot water heater would be cause for an immediate failure of ANY building inspection. It's not merely out of code, it's basically the same as having live sparking wires in your basement ("It's okay, I just don't go near them").

I feel terrible for the family, but I'm glad to have a resource like websleuths to cut through all the misinformation.

Thank you so much for helping us understand what we were looking at in that horribly scary picture.

It all sadly makes sense now what happened.

I have a propane water heater that I recently had installed and now I am going to go check to be sure the venting is done properly. I worry about the attic venting because there are some vent pipes up there that dont go all the way to the roof and end up just venting in the attic only.

Im hoping it is just the bathroom fans doing that but now I know to check to be sure the water heater vent pipe goes clear through to the roof and outside. If not I am going to jump on the phone to get a water heater guy to run the venting through the roof.

Thanks again for helping us here. It was an eye opener reading your description of what we were seeing.

 

[Hatfield]

The last I heard, the authorities just said "toxic gas." Has anyone heard a confirmation of CO poisoning. It could have been the actual gas (natural gas) coming in to the stove. We usually associate leaking gas of that type with an explosion, but it call also displace oxygen from the environment and lead to asphixiation. What kind of gas do they use in Mexico, does anyone know? Natural gas, propane, other?

Read link in Post 317.

It seems pretty convincing the water heater was the culprit and now they are waiting on test results to make sure they know the gas.

 

[jjenny]

The last I heard, the authorities just said "toxic gas." Has anyone heard a confirmation of CO poisoning. It could have been the actual gas (natural gas) coming in to the stove. We usually associate leaking gas of that type with an explosion, but it call also displace oxygen from the environment and lead to asphixiation. What kind of gas do they use in Mexico, does anyone know? Natural gas, propane, other?

The heater has been identified as the culprit.

 

[jjenny]

Thank you so much for helping us understand what we were looking at in that horribly scary picture.

It all sadly makes sense now what happened.

I have a propane water heater that I recently had installed and now I am going to go check to be sure the venting is done properly. I worry about the attic venting because there are some vent pipes up there that dont go all the way to the roof and end up just venting in the attic only.

Im hoping it is just the bathroom fans doing that but now I know to check to be sure the water heater vent pipe goes clear through to the roof and outside. If not I am going to jump on the phone to get a water heater guy to run the venting through the roof.

Thanks again for helping us here. It was an eye opener reading your description of what we were seeing.

Make sure to get a carbon monoxide detector.

 

[liltexans]

The homeowner's association for a condominium where a vacationing Iowa family was found dead said Monday that the property has been regularly rented out to tourists and that its current owner took possession in 2013.

[...]

The apartment was regularly rented out to tourists by the owner with the assistance of a property manager.

The Attorney General's Office in Mexico is expected to have specific results regarding the Sharp family's cause of death within 10 days.

"We, as the homeowners association, are at the total disposal of authorities to help and assist in any matter we can; likewise, we share the grief of all those who have lost loved ones and express our heartfelt sympathies with family and friends of the Sharp family," the statement read.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...exico-used-tourists-death-gas-leak/458064002/

 

[Hatfield]

Make sure to get a carbon monoxide detector.

Yes thanks. I luckily have one already but after reading everything today I am going to buy 2 or 3 more and spread them around the house better.

Thanks.

 

[Jax49]

Might want to consider a [FONT=Open Sans, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]natural gas detector. Or a combination detector for carbon monoxide and natural gas. [/FONT][h=1][/h]

 

[Chelly]

Am I correct in thinking the name of the condo community is being withheld?

 

[jjenny]

Might want to consider a [FONT=Open Sans, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]natural gas detector. Or a combination detector for carbon monoxide and natural gas. [/FONT][h=1][/h]

In US, your nose is a natural gas detector because of additives. If you plan to go visit outside US, could be a different story if they don't add additives to the gas to make it smell.
"So in the case of a potential gas leak, your single best detector is your own nose. You can supplement your power of smell with a natural gas alarm, many of which will also test for propane and carbon monoxide."
http://www.foxnews.com/real-estate/2012/02/01/5-alarms-must-have-in-your-home.html

 

[jjenny]

Am I correct in thinking the name of the condo community is being withheld?

No, it's public.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...exico-used-tourists-death-gas-leak/458064002/

 

[Kamille]

Am I correct in thinking the name of the condo community is being withheld?

It's the TAO Condos within the Bahia Principe Golf Course and Residences community. The condos feature access to 2 of the 4 Bahia Principe resorts, the Sian Ka'an and Tulum resorts. The Tulum resort has oceanfront access and the Sian Ka'an is a luxury adult only golf resort on the same side of the highway as the condos.

Press release from the homeowners association. https://www.taomexico.com/sharp-family-press-release/

Website for the TAO residences.
https://www.taomexico.com/tao-community-luxury-condos-sale/

 

[Arshin Carnifex]

It's theTAO Condos within the Bahia Principe Golf Course and Residences community. The condos feature access to 2 of the 4 Bahia Principe resorts, the Sian Ka'an and Tulum resorts. The Tulum resort has oceanfront access and the Sian Ka'an is a luxury adult only golf resort in the same side of the highway as the condos.

Press release from the homeowners association. https://www.taomexico.com/sharp-family-press-release/

According to the Press Release, it was the QI building, and according to the earlier statement from the Prosecutor's office, it was unit CH1. That would make it Property #p593514vb.

That unit's listing was deleted by HomeAway US, which was the site they found it from and booked it through, as soon as the story broke. They're now clamming up and playing the PR game. If it wasn't for the landlady's stunt in trying to blame the family, I might have not gone to this trouble. The Homeowner's Association is clearly trying to distance themselves from the "owner" (not "owners", interestingly, as it is stated on their page formerly) and the use of the male pronoun makes clear they're referring to Mr. Clinton Stuart Dougherty, who indeed states on his own page he bought the property in 2013 (as the HOA stated).

Mr. Dougherty is, as he states in his biography on the former condo page, is indeed a retired Hollywood director, actor and voice actor.

https://www.voices.com/actors/cdluni
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0234824/

I sincerely hope he's saved his pennies, for I suspect he'll find his homeowner's insurance will abandon him shortly just as the HOA did, simply because a dead 4-person family is worth around $150 million just for the loss of all those years of potential life (yes, courts think this way). If there's negligence, that can double or triple, and judgments based on a finding of negligence are not bankruptable; you wear them till you pay 'em or they bury you with them.

I have the unit's listing on the uk version of HomeAway, saved in Google Cache. Here it is. Hopefully some kind of comprehension can be gained of how to avoid this terrible tragedy again. Every one of those units ought to be inspected now, and it's certainly not going to happen if they're destroying evidence and their own statements.'

I am a giant tool and I can't figure out how to get this image to mount correctly here. Please click on this link instead.

 

[Satchie]

A couple of comments,

Someone pointed out there is a natural gas pipeline being planned, but not yet available, in the Yucatan. You can't deliver natural gas except through a pipeline. So I believe this was propane.

Another thing is that 'on demand' hot water heating is what's usually available in Central America. This is for reasons of economizing on propane, but also because water is usually stored in cisterns on the roof of a building, and the heat of the sun is often enough to heat the water, needing to add just a little heat.

This was a bit helpful in pointing out the two types of propane hot water heaters in the Yucatan, I didn't try to carefully read the details.

https://aerocretosdemexico.com/2014/02/11/water-heaters-in-the-yucatan/

 

[Chelly]

According to the Press Release, it was the QI building, and according to the earlier statement from the Prosecutor's office, it was unit CH1. That would make it Property #p593514vb.

That unit's listing was deleted by HomeAway US, which was the site they found it from and booked it through, as soon as the story broke. They're now clamming up and playing the PR game. If it wasn't for the landlady's stunt in trying to blame the family, I might have not gone to this trouble. The Homeowner's Association is clearly trying to distance themselves from the "owner" (not "owners", interestingly, as it is stated on their page formerly) and the use of the male pronoun makes clear they're referring to Mr. Clinton Stuart Dougherty, who indeed states on his own page he bought the property in 2013 (as the HOA stated).

Mr. Dougherty is, as he states in his biography on the former condo page, is indeed a retired Hollywood director, actor and voice actor.

https://www.voices.com/actors/cdluni
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0234824/

I sincerely hope he's saved his pennies, for I suspect he'll find his homeowner's insurance will abandon him shortly just as the HOA did, simply because a dead 4-person family is worth around $150 million just for the loss of all those years of potential life (yes, courts think this way). If there's negligence, that can double or triple, and judgments based on a finding of negligence are not bankruptable; you wear them till you pay 'em or they bury you with them.

I have the unit's listing on the uk version of HomeAway, saved in Google Cache. Here it is. Hopefully some kind of comprehension can be gained of how to avoid this terrible tragedy again. Every one of those units ought to be inspected now, and it's certainly not going to happen if they're destroying evidence and their own statements.'

I am a giant tool and I can't figure out how to get this image to mount correctly here. Please click on this link instead.

Thank you for your great sleuthing.

 

[Satchie]

Re smell of gas in Mexico. I think I read somewhere that there is an international standard requiring odorant to be added to propane, any gas producing plant would add it.

This article is about a terrible propane explosion in Mexico City, people smelled the gas. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...xico-but-deadly-explosion-draws-calls-to.html

I don't believe the earlier confusion about the unlit pilot light will be relevant, but there may have been a reporting error, it was likely the absence of air circulation (a breeze), thst would make pilot lights dangerous. If the light went out, and someone tried to light it, there could be an explosion.

 

[Isabelle]

Thanks. Yes, that would mean carbon monoxide poisoning. It's not a dumb question.

It wouldn’t be the gas that powered the hot water heater?