Found Deceased Mexico - Kevin, 41, Amy, 38, Sterling, 12, & Adrianna Sharp, 7, Tulum, 15 March 2018

[Seajay]

I'm still wondering when was the last time the condo was rented out and whether any problems, illnesses were reported to the owners.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

So if one wanted to light the stove or oven and it didn’t automatically light up, one would just leave the knob in the “on” position? I don’t really think these people would have been that stupid. wondering if one of the condos very nearby was using a generator due to no power?

There is no pilot light. It's a different design. You have to use a lighter to light the stove. First you turn the knob, then you use the lighter. I think they are suggesting the family turned the knob on the stove, didn't use the lighter because they didn't know they are supposed to, and left the stove on (didn't turn the knob back) because they thought it didn't work. They would have smelled the gas quickly if they did so, unless Mexico doesn't use additives?

Most of these days, stoves in US that are gas, have an electric starter. But you have to turn the stove all the way to high, and then backtrack to a lower setting it after the electric starter kicks it and lights it.

And yes, people can be that stupid, because my best friends did it at my house.

That said, the state that they lived in, I would think they would be used to gas stoves and how they work, if indeed that is what happened.

 

[jjenny]

I had house guests a couple of months back who are used to all electric. I have a gas stove. I was in the shower and they wanted to put something on the stove for breakfast. They turned it on and then they went to get ready for the morning. I got out of the shower walked into the kitchen and smelled gas. I saw that they had turned it halfway on and walked away. They had no idea that you had to light it and apparently they did not see that it was not lit when they walked away. I evacuated the house after I turned it off. If indeed it was because they left it on, the knob should say it was in that position I would think. That is different than a leak, and if they found a knob in the on position on the stove., I think they would have noted that.. the photograph on the above Facebook link that somebody put up earlier shows a thermometer hanging from one of the racks in the stove, but I don't see any gas sensor or a knob turned on in that photo.

I wish mainstream media would investigate it more, especially our comments about do they do additives for smell in Mexico for propane/gas, and to learn what positions the knobs were in. I look forward to knowing the results of where the leak was coming from in further reports.

Yes, the knob would have remained turned on when first responders arrived if that was the case, but we don't know if it was or wasn't. Presumably first responders would have turned it off right away.

 

[jjenny]

I believe the stove has a completely different design from what most Americans are used to. There is no starter. You have to turn the knob (doesn't matter whether all the way or not) on then use a lighter. If you don't use a lighter the gas will be leaking unless you turn the knob back off. Americans wouldn't be familiar with design like that, so presumably it could have happened that way.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I believe the stove has a completely different design from what most Americans are used to. There is no starter. You have to turn the knob (doesn't matter whether all the way or not) on then use a lighter. If you don't use a lighter the gas will be leaking unless you turn the knob back off.

I guess it is a communication and or semantics for me. In the condition that they turned it on and it did not light, I would say that the gas was on versus leaking. I would like to know the differentiation of if it was indeed leaking, from somewhere, or it was left on.

To me, those are two totally different things. And I would like the answer to both of those from the media eventually. And or law enforcement.

 

[jjenny]

I guess it is a communication and or semantics for me. In the condition that they turned it on and it did not light, I would say that the gas was on versus leaking. I would like to know the differentiation of if it was indeed leaking, from somewhere, or it was left on.

To me, those are two totally different things. And I would like the answer to both of those from the media eventually. And or law enforcement.

If you turn the stove on but don't light it, gas will be leaking into your home. That should have been obvious from the start because the knob would have been turned on. Whether it was or wasn't, we don't know yet.

 

[liltexans]

This story was on the Today Show this morning:

https://www.today.com/video/iowa-fa...n-in-mexico-authorities-say-1194953795908?v=a

 

[neesaki]

Natural gas is odorless there is an additive to make it detectable

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Yes that’s what I meant. Sorry for being unclear.

 

[Irishboy]

That’s what I gathered but wondered if anyone would just leave it in the “on” position??? I did a look up and it seems that gas used in Mexico is propane. Not able to find out whether or not ethyl mercaptan is added to the propane or not. I have sent an email to the resort that my daughter and granddaughter are staying at to find out if they are all electric or not.

Possible faulty valve

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[Hatfield]

If this local manager from a different place is right

"Speculating as to how the family could have died, the condo manager went on to explain, “We all think that they tried to use the stove at night, and when it didn’t light they assumed it didn’t work and accidentally left the gas on.We don’t have pilot lights because of the wind, so you light them.”

http://people.com/crime/iowa-family-died-toxic-gas-asphyxiation/

If this manager is right then I have not seen a stove like that before. I am not doubting they do exist. Its just I have not ever seen one like that.

I once had a stove that had no pilot but how it would work is once you turned the gas on it would make a clicking sound as the Piezo ignition switch would automatically make sparks until the stove would light.

The Piezo ignition switch are the types of switches you see on gas grills where you push a button and it makes a little spark to light the grill. The gas stove I had would do it automatically when the gas was turned on.

I havent seen a stove where you turn gas on and have to light it yourself. It sounds like they do make stoves without either a pilot light or an automatic Piezo ignition. Scary that they exist. Most people know to turn off a gas knob if not lit but mistakes happen and especially if children are around they could make a mistake.

Some Piezo switches are all manual and by pushing the button it makes a spark by the material inside uses a form of crystal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezo_ignition

Some of the fancy gas grills have a small battery to make the piezo switch easier to spark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq9Ex43o9-k

 

[neesaki]

FYI, this article indicates that they died of CO poisoning rather than natural gas or propane, which would explain why there was no smell.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willia...g-as-death-rate-in-u-s-declines/#6e79ba327eb6

 

[Kamille]

Possible faulty valve

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Looks like that may be one of the options being looked at. I assume this pic is of the connection to the water heater?

https://www.facebook.com/FGEQuintanaRoo/photos/pcb.1964358203855282/1964357787188657/?type=3&theater

 

[akazia1978]

There is no pilot light. It's a different design. You have to use a lighter to light the stove. First you turn the knob, then you use the lighter. I think they are suggesting the family turned the knob on the stove, didn't use the lighter because they didn't know they are supposed to, and left the stove on (didn't turn the knob back) because they thought it didn't work. They would have smelled the gas quickly if they did so, unless Mexico doesn't use additives?

I'll just comment on this real quick. I lived in Nicaragua and always had to light the stove with a lighter or matches. It is possible to leave the stove on, but unlikely. We used propane, so you'd have to replace tanks every once in a while.

I wasn't used to using tanks, so my landlady was over one day and gave me a heck of a lecture for leaving the tank switched to on while I wasn't using the stove. I assumed if the stove was off it would be ok, but she said the tanks can leak. Was good about turning the valve to the tank off after that.

 

[jjenny]

FYI, this article indicates that they died of CO poisoning rather than natural gas or propane, which would explain why there was no smell.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willia...g-as-death-rate-in-u-s-declines/#6e79ba327eb6

It hasn't been released by Mexico as to what gas it was, and it doesn't appear that the author of the article knows anything in particular.

 

[jjenny]

If this local manager from a different place is right

"Speculating as to how the family could have died, the condo manager went on to explain, “We all think that they tried to use the stove at night, and when it didn’t light they assumed it didn’t work and accidentally left the gas on.We don’t have pilot lights because of the wind, so you light them.”

http://people.com/crime/iowa-family-died-toxic-gas-asphyxiation/

If this manager is right then I have not seen a stove like that before. I am not doubting they do exist. Its just I have not ever seen one like that.

I once had a stove that had no pilot but how it would work is once you turned the gas on it would make a clicking sound as the Piezo ignition switch would automatically make sparks until the stove would light.

The Piezo ignition switch are the types of switches you see on gas grills where you push a button and it makes a little spark to light the grill. The gas stove I had would do it automatically when the gas was turned on.

I havent seen a stove where you turn gas on and have to light it yourself. It sounds like they do make stoves without either a pilot light or an automatic Piezo ignition. Scary that they exist. Most people know to turn off a gas knob if not lit but mistakes happen and especially if children are around they could make a mistake.

Some Piezo switches are all manual and by pushing the button it makes a spark by the material inside uses a form of crystal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezo_ignition

Some of the fancy gas grills have a small battery to make the piezo switch easier to spark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq9Ex43o9-k

I have used the stove where you had to light it. It didn't have a pilot light or an ignition switch. You had to turn the knob, then use a lighter. If you didn't use a lighter, gas would leak, unless you turned the knob back off.

 

[Arshin Carnifex]

Looks like that may be one of the options being looked at. I assume this pic is of the connection to the water heater?

https://www.facebook.com/FGEQuintanaRoo/photos/pcb.1964358203855282/1964357787188657/?type=3&theater

Be advised: I spent 8 years from age 17 to 25 installing water heaters. That right there is EXACTLY the cause of this catastrophe. I literally gasped when I saw what a terribly atrocious cob-job that installer had done.

Notice the black soot smeared all over the blue piping? That's incomplete combustion caused by a major leak in the vent pipe; it normally burns fully along the upward length of the pipe (cooling and being converted fully to CO2 and water vapor), but instead it's getting ejected out sideways into the the air and oxidizing, generating soot and carbon monoxide. That family was killed by their hot water heater. Or, to be precise, the murderously negligent fool who installed or modified it last.


1) That vent pipe is supposed to be rigid, double-walled galvanized steel, rated against acidic flue gas at 200-degrees. Cost: $13 a foot.
Installer instead used semi-rigid, low-temp aluminized dryer vent (which is only rated for 120F hot air, and is also not designed to be leak-proof even against that). Cost: $3 a foot.
Disaster waiting to happen.


2) The rigid vent pipe is supposed to be firmly secured to the draft diverter (the black funnel thing that sucks air up the pipe) with a nylon-gasketed collar rated to seal against hot flue gas. Cost: $6.
Installer instead used a big wad of aluminized dryer vent tape, which is rated to 120F hot air and intended to patch minor holes in existing dryer line. It is even less resistant to moist, hot, acidic gas than the dryer hose itself, worse than even duct tape! Cost: pennies.
MAJOR disaster waiting to happen.


The failure occurred in one of those two parts, probably that atrocious "tape joint". Just look at all the residue built up! He even smudged it to make it obvious in the picture. I'm literally going to be sick. This is terrible negligence.

 

[Kamille]

Here is the picture of investigators looking at the stove. You'll note that there is a loaf of bread on the counter top so it appears that the family had already purchased provisions for preparing food and may have tried to use the stove, perhaps to boil that kettle. All of the knobs you can see in the picture do appear to be off though.

https://www.cp24.com/world/iowa-family-died-of-gas-asphyxiation-at-mexican-resort-1.3858183

 

[Hatfield]

I have used the stove where you had to light it. It didn't have a pilot light or an ignition switch. You had to turn the knob, then use a lighter. If you didn't use a lighter, gas would leak, unless you turned the knob back off.

Thanks for confirming they do exist. Come to think of it I do have a camp stove like that. Its a very small coleman camp stove that uses those small tanks of propane.

Its totally manual and i have to light that with a lighter.

Hint: When lighting stoves like that its good to get one of those long handled lighters that have a long neck.

 

[akazia1978]

I also don't recall the propane having any particular smell...so I'm thinking Nicaragua doesn't add stuff to it. Could be wrong, I don't always have the greatest sense of smell

 

[jjenny]

Here is the picture of investigators looking at the stove. You'll note that there is a loaf of bread on the counter top so it appears that the family had already purchased provisions for preparing food and may have tried to use the stove, perhaps to boil that kettle. All of the knobs you can see in the picture do appear to be off though.

https://www.cp24.com/world/iowa-family-died-of-gas-asphyxiation-at-mexican-resort-1.3858183

Yea, but we can't see the one that is behind the fireman's head. Somebody also could have turned the knob off prior to the photo being taken, to prevent more gas from leaking. But I think that theory is a red herring.