Found Deceased Mexico - Kevin, 41, Amy, 38, Sterling, 12, & Adrianna Sharp, 7, Tulum, 15 March 2018

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Be advised: I spent 8 years from age 17 to 25 installing water heaters. That right there is EXACTLY the cause of this catastrophe. I literally gasped when I saw what a terribly atrocious cob-job that installer had done.

Notice the black soot smeared all over the blue piping? That's incomplete combustion caused by a major leak in the vent pipe; it normally burns fully along the upward length of the pipe (cooling and being converted fully to CO2 and water vapor), but instead it's getting ejected out sideways into the the air and oxidizing, generating soot and carbon monoxide. That family was killed by their hot water heater. Or, to be precise, the murderously negligent fool who installed or modified it last.


1) That vent pipe is supposed to be rigid, double-walled galvanized steel, rated against acidic flue gas at 200-degrees. Cost: $13 a foot.
Installer instead used semi-rigid, low-temp aluminized dryer vent (which is only rated for 120F hot air, and is also not designed to be leak-proof even against that). Cost: $3 a foot.
Disaster waiting to happen.


2) The rigid vent pipe is supposed to be firmly secured to the draft diverter (the black funnel thing that sucks air up the pipe) with a nylon-gasketed collar rated to seal against hot flue gas. Cost: $6.
Installer instead used a big wad of aluminized dryer vent tape, which is rated to 120F hot air and intended to patch minor holes in existing dryer line. It is even less resistant to moist, hot, acidic gas than the dryer hose itself, worse than even duct tape! Cost: pennies.
MAJOR disaster waiting to happen.


The failure occurred in one of those two parts, probably that atrocious "tape joint". Just look at all the residue built up! He even smudged it to make it obvious in the picture. I'm literally going to be sick. This is terrible negligence.

Welcome Arshin Carnifex :welcome:

Thank you for your expertise regarding hot water heaters, their installation procedures, and the photo I posted. I also believe the cause of likely CO poisoning is the water heater. Not sure why no one in the media has picked up on the faults in that photo.

MOO
 
Be advised: I spent 8 years from age 17 to 25 installing water heaters. That right there is EXACTLY the cause of this catastrophe. I literally gasped when I saw what a terribly atrocious cob-job that installer had done.

Notice the black soot smeared all over the blue piping? That's incomplete combustion caused by a major leak in the vent pipe; it normally burns fully along the upward length of the pipe (cooling and being converted fully to CO2 and water vapor), but instead it's getting ejected out sideways into the the air and oxidizing, generating soot and carbon monoxide. That family was killed by their hot water heater. Or, to be precise, the murderously negligent fool who installed or modified it last.


1) That vent pipe is supposed to be rigid, double-walled galvanized steel, rated against acidic flue gas at 200-degrees. Cost: $13 a foot.
Installer instead used semi-rigid, low-temp aluminized dryer vent (which is only rated for 120F hot air, and is also not designed to be leak-proof even against that). Cost: $3 a foot.
Disaster waiting to happen.


2) The rigid vent pipe is supposed to be firmly secured to the draft diverter (the black funnel thing that sucks air up the pipe) with a nylon-gasketed collar rated to seal against hot flue gas. Cost: $6.
Installer instead used a big wad of aluminized dryer vent tape, which is rated to 120F hot air and intended to patch minor holes in existing dryer line. It is even less resistant to moist, hot, acidic gas than the dryer hose itself, worse than even duct tape! Cost: pennies.
MAJOR disaster waiting to happen.


The failure occurred in one of those two parts, probably that atrocious "tape joint". Just look at all the residue built up! He even smudged it to make it obvious in the picture. I'm literally going to be sick. This is terrible negligence.

JMO
If that is the top of the water heater then I have to agree with you that it does look like this could be the cause of a leak of Carbon Monoxide gas.

That soot around the seal looks like a leak has been occurring for some time.

That venting flexible silver material does look no better than drying venting which you can poke a hole in very easily with any sharp instrument.

I hope we get official word from them soon about this.
 
Be advised: I spent 8 years from age 17 to 25 installing water heaters. That right there is EXACTLY the cause of this catastrophe. I literally gasped when I saw what a terribly atrocious cob-job that installer had done.

Notice the black soot smeared all over the blue piping? That's incomplete combustion caused by a major leak in the vent pipe; it normally burns fully along the upward length of the pipe (cooling and being converted fully to CO2 and water vapor), but instead it's getting ejected out sideways into the the air and oxidizing, generating soot and carbon monoxide. That family was killed by their hot water heater. Or, to be precise, the murderously negligent fool who installed or modified it last.


1) That vent pipe is supposed to be rigid, double-walled galvanized steel, rated against acidic flue gas at 200-degrees. Cost: $13 a foot.
Installer instead used semi-rigid, low-temp aluminized dryer vent (which is only rated for 120F hot air, and is also not designed to be leak-proof even against that). Cost: $3 a foot.
Disaster waiting to happen.


2) The rigid vent pipe is supposed to be firmly secured to the draft diverter (the black funnel thing that sucks air up the pipe) with a nylon-gasketed collar rated to seal against hot flue gas. Cost: $6.
Installer instead used a big wad of aluminized dryer vent tape, which is rated to 120F hot air and intended to patch minor holes in existing dryer line. It is even less resistant to moist, hot, acidic gas than the dryer hose itself, worse than even duct tape! Cost: pennies.
MAJOR disaster waiting to happen.


The failure occurred in one of those two parts, probably that atrocious "tape joint". Just look at all the residue built up! He even smudged it to make it obvious in the picture. I'm literally going to be sick. This is terrible negligence.

Thank you, Arshin Carnifex, for your expertise. I am utterly speechless. To save a few dollars, an entire family is wiped out. Sorry to welcome you to Websleuths under a cloud of tragedy.
 
JMO
If that is the top of the water heater then I have to agree with you that it does look like this could be the cause of a leak of Carbon Monoxide gas.

That soot around the seal looks like a leak has been occurring for some time.

That venting flexible silver material does look no better than drying venting which you can poke a hole in very easily with any sharp instrument.

I hope we get official word from them soon about this.

Yeah. Why are we not seeing the inspectors hovering around the water heater? They need to get away from the stove, where they most likely will find "no leak," and focus on that water heater, as our new member Arshin Carnifex has so expertly pointed out!
 
Welcome Arshin Carnifex :welcome:

Thank you for your expertise regarding hot water heaters, their installation procedures, and the photo I posted. I also believe the cause of likely CO poisoning is the water heater. Not sure why no one in the media has picked up on the faults in that photo.

MOO

Thank you, Kourageous Kamille. :) I simply couldn't help responding, simply because I actually once had the gruesome misfortune of having been called in by my local PD to examine a water heater in similar condition to this one that had also killed somebody (an elderly woman and her two little dogs, actually). I'm not going to get into the details, but the heater had been installed by the cheapest idiot her son could find in the Want-Ad Digest. He charged half as much as the next cheapest guy, and did his work with bathroom caulk and aluminum sheeting he made from soda cans. She was fine for 6 months until the gas finished melting through the caulk, and then she died in bed. Right next to the little dogs.

Anyway, let the lesson be twofold: 1) Don't trust other people's gas-burning appliances, especially in countries with effectively no building codes, and 2) Any sign of black soot around the exhaust tubing on any interior gas-burning appliance is not an "oops, I'd better look into that soon" kind of deal. It's a "turn the SOB off RIGHT NOW and do NOT use it again until an HVAC tech can look at it!!!" kind of deal.

I bet this unit sprung a major leak the very first time it was used in this configuration. I bet it then struggled along for another year or so, blowing off CO all the while, but the levels never got high enough to kill anybody. People probably had headaches and nausea but blamed it on too many margaritas and the old Montezuma's Revenge, then they went home and felt 100% better. That's very common with rental units with gas leaks, and landlords are usually loathe to hear about "Your condo made me sick, but then I got better, you should check it out". They say "ya huh, it gets checked once a year, no bugs and the linens are clean. Don't drink so much next time."

According to what I've read, the temperature was down in the low 70s on the first two nights that the Sharps stayed in the condo. My supposition is that they closed all the windows and each of them took a hot shower or bath (likely after a long flight from the mainland), with one of them then leaving the hot water dripping (or possibly there was a hot water leak somewhere to produce the same result). This made the water heater cycle on and off multiple times per hour, eventually saturating the condo with CO that (with the closed windows and the AC off) they were in no position to survive.

This last part is pure supposition: I'm no Gil Grissom. But I know for 100% certainty that hot water heater would be cause for an immediate failure of ANY building inspection. It's not merely out of code, it's basically the same as having live sparking wires in your basement ("It's okay, I just don't go near them").

I feel terrible for the family, but I'm glad to have a resource like websleuths to cut through all the misinformation. :)
 
Welcome to Websleuths, Arshin Carnifex!

It's interesting that you brought up soda cans being used by people who don't know what they're doing to install water heaters. I just had my water heater replaced a couple of months ago and the master plumber was telling me that he sees all kinds of dangerous things when he's called to people's homes to fix or replace their water heaters, including seeing tin cans fastened to the top of the water heater. And that's here in the United States.
 
I had another question regarding the gas supply to this area of Mexico. It appears that they haven't had any natural gas pipelines in that area with any regularity and that most of the gas supply is propane. I have posted a link to a media story about how the Yucatán Penninsula is being integrated into the national natural gas supply system in the coming year. I know that the Tao condos were fairly new to the Bahia Principe property and I believe I read this unit was constructed in 2013. If that is not a hot water heater in the picture, could it be some type of propane tank?

http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2018...grated-into-the-national-gas-pipeline-system/
 
Yeah. Why are we not seeing the inspectors hovering around the water heater? They need to get away from the stove, where they most likely will find "no leak," and focus on that water heater, as our new member Arshin Carnifex has so expertly pointed out!

Family was told that the source of toxic gas was either stove or water heater, so I think they are investigating both.

http://whotv.com/2018/03/26/relative-says-sharp-family-killed-by-gas-leak-from-appliance/
 
Thank you, Kourageous Kamille. :) I simply couldn't help responding, simply because I actually once had the gruesome misfortune of having been called in by my local PD to examine a water heater in similar condition to this one that had also killed somebody (an elderly woman and her two little dogs, actually). I'm not going to get into the details, but the heater had been installed by the cheapest idiot her son could find in the Want-Ad Digest. He charged half as much as the next cheapest guy, and did his work with bathroom caulk and aluminum sheeting he made from soda cans. She was fine for 6 months until the gas finished melting through the caulk, and then she died in bed. Right next to the little dogs.

Anyway, let the lesson be twofold: 1) Don't trust other people's gas-burning appliances, especially in countries with effectively no building codes, and 2) Any sign of black soot around the exhaust tubing on any interior gas-burning appliance is not an "oops, I'd better look into that soon" kind of deal. It's a "turn the SOB off RIGHT NOW and do NOT use it again until an HVAC tech can look at it!!!" kind of deal.

I bet this unit sprung a major leak the very first time it was used in this configuration. I bet it then struggled along for another year or so, blowing off CO all the while, but the levels never got high enough to kill anybody. People probably had headaches and nausea but blamed it on too many margaritas and the old Montezuma's Revenge, then they went home and felt 100% better. That's very common with rental units with gas leaks, and landlords are usually loathe to hear about "Your condo made me sick, but then I got better, you should check it out". They say "ya huh, it gets checked once a year, no bugs and the linens are clean. Don't drink so much next time."

According to what I've read, the temperature was down in the low 70s on the first two nights that the Sharps stayed in the condo. My supposition is that they closed all the windows and each of them took a hot shower or bath (likely after a long flight from the mainland), with one of them then leaving the hot water dripping (or possibly there was a hot water leak somewhere to produce the same result). This made the water heater cycle on and off multiple times per hour, eventually saturating the condo with CO that (with the closed windows and the AC off) they were in no position to survive.

This last part is pure supposition: I'm no Gil Grissom. But I know for 100% certainty that hot water heater would be cause for an immediate failure of ANY building inspection. It's not merely out of code, it's basically the same as having live sparking wires in your basement ("It's okay, I just don't go near them").

I feel terrible for the family, but I'm glad to have a resource like websleuths to cut through all the misinformation. :)

Arshin, terribly sorry that you had to investigate that poor woman's cause of death, and her two little dogs.

We are glad to have you here with us, as a valuable resource. A thousand thanks!
 
Be advised: I spent 8 years from age 17 to 25 installing water heaters. That right there is EXACTLY the cause of this catastrophe. I literally gasped when I saw what a terribly atrocious cob-job that installer had done.

Notice the black soot smeared all over the blue piping? That's incomplete combustion caused by a major leak in the vent pipe; it normally burns fully along the upward length of the pipe (cooling and being converted fully to CO2 and water vapor), but instead it's getting ejected out sideways into the the air and oxidizing, generating soot and carbon monoxide. That family was killed by their hot water heater. Or, to be precise, the murderously negligent fool who installed or modified it last.


1) That vent pipe is supposed to be rigid, double-walled galvanized steel, rated against acidic flue gas at 200-degrees. Cost: $13 a foot.
Installer instead used semi-rigid, low-temp aluminized dryer vent (which is only rated for 120F hot air, and is also not designed to be leak-proof even against that). Cost: $3 a foot.
Disaster waiting to happen.


2) The rigid vent pipe is supposed to be firmly secured to the draft diverter (the black funnel thing that sucks air up the pipe) with a nylon-gasketed collar rated to seal against hot flue gas. Cost: $6.
Installer instead used a big wad of aluminized dryer vent tape, which is rated to 120F hot air and intended to patch minor holes in existing dryer line. It is even less resistant to moist, hot, acidic gas than the dryer hose itself, worse than even duct tape! Cost: pennies.
MAJOR disaster waiting to happen.


The failure occurred in one of those two parts, probably that atrocious "tape joint". Just look at all the residue built up! He even smudged it to make it obvious in the picture. I'm literally going to be sick. This is terrible negligence.
Wow! Thank you so much for sharing your expertise on water heaters. A safely installed water heater is something most of us take for granted whether renting a home or traveling on vacation. I know I will always want to check out water heaters and carry carbon monoxide detectors when traveling. Ill want to stay away from pool generators and be aware of the possible chemical/pesticide exposure. Traveling doesnt sound so glamorous any more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
http://www.kcci.com/article/mexico-official-iowa-family-died-from-water-heater-gas-leak/19596646

This says it was the water heater gas leak.

Dumb question...is that carbon monoxide then?

They don't name the gas but I presume so.

"A gas water heater that has been neglected, improperly installed or poorly vented could leak carbon monoxide, which can be downright deadly. Carbon monoxide (CO) is an odorless, colorless gas produced from burning fuels."

https://sensorcon-sensing-products-by-molex.myshopify.com/pages/hotwater
 
I have not read all the prior posts so I may have missed something. The idea of this being due to a gas leak has a lot of validity. One other possibility may exist.

I read today that both parents were found in their bedroom, the kids were in the living room area. Does that suggest anything to anyone else? The first thought that occurred to me is that whatever went down here, it was in the morning. Parents still in bed, kids got up early and were playing or watching TV in the LR. Could the kids have turned on a burner on the stove, maybe not being used to a gas oven they could innocently have done something to cause this ? Not something good to consider but possible.

This is one reason I have never has much interest in travel to Mexico or other more exotic areas. Here, we assume things are inspected and controlled. No such assurance in many other places.

Update, my post apparently crossed the one with the link to the KCCI news story that pretty much nails the cause as issues with the water heater. In a way, I'd rather that be the cause. I hope strong action is taken by authorities.
 
I have not read all the prior posts so I may have missed something. The idea of this being due to a gas leak has a lot of validity. One other possibility may exist.

I read today that both parents were found in their bedroom, the kids were in the living room area. Does that suggest anything to anyone else? The first thought that occurred to me is that whatever went down here, it was in the morning. Parents still in bed, kids got up early and were playing or watching TV in the LR. Could the kids have turned on a burner on the stove, maybe not being used to a gas oven they could innocently have done something to cause this ? Not something good to consider but possible.

This is one reason I have never has much interest in travel to Mexico or other more exotic areas. Here, we assume things are inspected and controlled. No such assurance in many other places.

No, they already determined it was the water heater that leaked gas.
 
A prosecutor in Mexico says a gas leak in a water heater is suspected in the death of an Iowa couple and their two children last week. The head prosecutor of the Caribbean coast state of Quintana Roo told local media Monday that the water heater "was leaking gas, maybe from use or lack of maintenance."

Miguel Angel Pech told the Radio Formula station that "a high level" of gas was found in the rented condo in the resort area of Tulum where the family was staying.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iowa-sharp-family-deaths-water-heater-gas-leak-mexico-official-says/
 
The head prosecutor of the Caribbean coast state of Quintana Roo told local media Monday that an inspection over the weekend revealed that the water heater at the rented condominium in the resort town of Tulum was leaking gas.

"Unfortunately, they found the area where the water heater was letting gas escape, perhaps because of a lack of maintenance, perhaps because it was in use, perhaps because of the age of the equipment," prosecutor Miguel Angel Pech told the Radio Formula station.

"In fact, a high concentration of this toxic (gas) was found in the room," Pech said.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_df12696f-253c-519b-b19a-b8ec39c87ccf.html
 
The head prosecutor of the Caribbean coast state of Quintana Roo told local media Monday that an inspection over the weekend revealed that the water heater at the rented condominium in the resort town of Tulum was leaking gas.

"Unfortunately, they found the area where the water heater was letting gas escape, perhaps because of a lack of maintenance, perhaps because it was in use, perhaps because of the age of the equipment," prosecutor Miguel Angel Pech told the Radio Formula station.

"In fact, a high concentration of this toxic (gas) was found in the room," Pech said.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_df12696f-253c-519b-b19a-b8ec39c87ccf.html
So horribly sad and downright scary!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 

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