MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

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Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats said:
In my opinion the drawing, was enough to warrant searching his backpack, gave them all the reasonable cause they needed. In no way do I believe they did not have action they could’ve taken, that their hands were tied. I have wondered if the gun was still in his backpack or perhaps he had stashed it in the bathroom. At least if the school had tried to do something it wouldn’t be pure negligence on their part. As it stands now, in my opinion, the school is going to be facing major civil suits for their lack of action. His drawing was literally a cry for help and that cry was not answered by either his parents or the school. MOO
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The drawing sounds like he might have been suffering mental illness...hallucinations, hearing voices in his head...but a cry for help to have it investigated at least!
 
Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats said:
In my opinion the drawing, was enough to warrant searching his backpack, gave them all the reasonable cause they needed. In no way do I believe they did not have action they could’ve taken, that their hands were tied. I have wondered if the gun was still in his backpack or perhaps he had stashed it in the bathroom. At least if the school had tried to do something it wouldn’t be pure negligence on their part. As it stands now, in my opinion, the school is going to be facing major civil suits for their lack of action. His drawing was literally a cry for help and that cry was not answered by either his parents or the school. MOO
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The drawing sounds like he might have been suffering mental illness...hallucinations, hearing voices in his head...but a cry for help to have it investigated at least!
 
kaen said:
Or, if the school officials had asked him these things before his parents arrived, conducted the search, and called the police-- which they could have done.

The school is limited do that because they need reasonable suspicion. They could have also questioned him if they were not to intrusive if he was suspected of breaking a school code or the law. But, some school administrators are more in fear of parents/people getting furious about their actions than they are of acting. My guess is that this family would have told them to not question him further until they arrived. Given their familial response to the looking up ammunition, they were probably a family that school administrators dreaded dealing with.

The parents could have asked him if he had a weapon. I suspect these parents would not have asked because if they did he might have gotten into "trouble" with the school, which they would have wanted to avoid.

What none of us know is if the gun was in his backpack or hidden somewhere on the campus. I think he may have hidden it rather than keep it in his pack.
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I'm pretty sure the gun was in his backpack:
Oxford High School shooting timeline: What happened before, inside school and afterward

Earlier the parents were at the school with EC and school officials but none of them asked to examine his backpack. The fact that the school called the parents in says there was serious concern over the cell phone ammo search by EC and the disturbing drawings.

I'm not blaming the school, at least not until the investigation is further along, I'm mainly lamenting a missed opportunity. Even if Ethan refused the officials would then have had reason to insist he go home or else have the police called.

And IMO he wouldn't have started shooting in the office while his parents were there. I believe it was important to him that his parents, especially his mom, were aware of what he was doing. Meaning there is some major dysfunction in his relationship with his parents. All MOO though.
 
Has anyone seen it reported anywhere the time of the meeting at the school with the parents on the day of the shooting? I have just seen it confirmed that the shootings started at 12:51 p.m. I wonder how much time lapsed between the meeting and when the shootings began.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
At that point, Ethan might have felt cornered. If the gun was loaded, Ethan could have shot both of his parents and school personnel in attendance at the meeting. He might very well have shot himself.
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We obviously do not know the particulars of this meeting, but my experience from having four kids go through the school system, volunteering quite a bit and observing different situations, is when students are called to the principals office backpacks etc. are removed/taken from them. Security officer will be asked to be in the room, several precautions that can be taken. I’m not denying that he could have been a threat to those in the room but if that was the case or a concern then we’re talking major liability for sending him back to the classroom.
 
Parents of Ethan Crumbley met with schools leaders due to concerning behavior — hours before deadly shooting

The sheriff would not get into the specifics of either of those meetings because now it is part of the investigation. But he did say that prior to those meetings there was no contact with Crumbley and school officials or nothing in Crombley’s file about concerning behavior or discipline.

BBM Interesting that EC had no contact with school officials prior to this incident and that there was nothng in his school file about concerning behavior or discipline.
 
Sundog said:
Parents of Ethan Crumbley met with schools leaders due to concerning behavior — hours before deadly shooting

The sheriff would not get into the specifics of either of those meetings because now it is part of the investigation. But he did say that prior to those meetings there was no contact with Crumbley and school officials or nothing in Crombley’s file about concerning behavior or discipline.

BBM Interesting that EC had no contact with school officials prior to this incident and that there was nothng in his school file about concerning behavior or discipline.
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I'm ready to hear how that meeting went and how the parents reacted to the drawing and his words. If this is the first time they've been called in for a meeting about his behavior you would think they would be very concerned and worried. But by leaving him in school to continue the day it doesn't sound like that was their reaction.
 
ClaireNC said:
I’m a gun owner and I just can’t get past the fact that they bought their 15 year old son a handgun for Christmas! Who buys a 15 year old a handgun? I could go with a BB gun or a shotgun maybe for target practice or skeet shooting. But a handgun? Why?
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It's actually illegal to do in Michigan and most other states. Under 18's cannot have their own guns. The gun can be used by an under 18 only under supervision of the adult gun owner.

It's a misdemeanor (I think it's a serious misdemeanor in Michigan). So this crime started with the parents committing a crime.
 
bestill said:
I'm ready to hear how that meeting went and how the parents reacted to the drawing and his words. If this is the first time they've been called in for a meeting about his behavior you would think they would be very concerned and worried. But by leaving him in school to continue the day it doesn't sound like that was their reaction.
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No it does not sound like that was their reaction. He was old enough to be home alone, it would not have interfered with their work, I am curious what the reasoning was for not taking him home. Would it have been a blemish on his record as a discipline action (but doubt they would care) just counted as an absence, why did they want him to stay?
 
Kristin Esq. said:
Yes, I had the same thoughts. And it makes me wonder how she will do in Court in front of a jury. (Maybe I'm a little harsh after watching Linda Dunikoski)
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I think she is just trying to communicate a whole lot of info in a short time frame, and much of the info is fairly new to her. She will probably be more organized by the time she goes to court. I still had no trouble following her train of thought.
 
@KarenDrewTV
[URL='https://twitter.com/Local4News']@Local4News[/URL]


Oxford Superintendent calls for independent investigation meantime continues to defend choice to send accused gunman back to class
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Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats said:
No it does not sound like that was their reaction. He was old enough to be home alone, it would not have interfered with their work, I am curious what the reasoning was for not taking him home. Would it have been a blemish on his record as a discipline action (but doubt they would care) just counted as an absence, why did they want him to stay?
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Great question!
In addition to your blemish for discipline action,
2 they were minimizing to show power over the school
3 they were scared of EC and didn’t want to take him
4 they knew his plan (ugh and I doubt it, but)
5 they didn’t want him to be embarrassed
6 they didn’t want to leave him alone and they had to work
Others…
 
bestill said:
I'm ready to hear how that meeting went and how the parents reacted to the drawing and his words. If this is the first time they've been called in for a meeting about his behavior you would think they would be very concerned and worried. But by leaving him in school to continue the day it doesn't sound like that was their reaction.
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Right now it appears the parents weren't concerned at all since they insisted that Ethan remain in school that day. Plus the mom texting him “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.” after he was caught by a teacher searching on his cell phone for ammo to buy sounds more like she was proud and encouraging of his delinquent behavior. :eek:

The kid had no prior disciplinary problems at school and I haven't yet read about any bullying issues so I can't help but keep going back to something very wrong within the family. MOO.

Prosecutor Lays Out Disturbing Timeline Explaining Why Oxford School Shooting Suspect's Parents Were Charged
 
Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats said:
No it does not sound like that was their reaction. He was old enough to be home alone, it would not have interfered with their work, I am curious what the reasoning was for not taking him home. Would it have been a blemish on his record as a discipline action (but doubt they would care) just counted as an absence, why did they want him to stay?
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Either because they were afraid of him or because they wanted him to shoot up the school. I think the parents are mentally ill and/or totally lacking in sound judgment of any kind.
 
MsMarple said:
Right now it appears the parents weren't concerned at all since they insisted that Ethan remain in school that day. Plus the mom texting him “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.” after he was caught by a teacher searching on his cell phone for ammo to buy sounds more like she was proud and encouraging of his delinquent behavior. :eek:

The kid had no prior disciplinary problems at school and I haven't yet read about any bullying issues so I can't help but keep going back to something very wrong within the family. MOO.

Prosecutor Lays Out Disturbing Timeline Explaining Why Oxford School Shooting Suspect's Parents Were Charged
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No doubt there are parental issues, but there was an interview with one of his schoolmates who said he was bullied.
 
Oakland County Sheriff will update media at 4pm on the latest involving Jennifer and James Crumbley — who are now in custody.
I’m here. Windy and chilly day in Michigan.

To clear up a few things you all have asked me:
The $500,000 bond for both Crumbley parents is cash surety. That means they cannot just pay 10%.
Their lawyers insist yesterday’s manhunt was because of a miscommunication. Should be interesting to hear what sheriff has to say soon.
https://twitter.com/brianentin/status/1467230206704431104?s=21
https://twitter.com/brianentin/status/1467230206704431104?s=21

https://twitter.com/brianentin/status/1467231147268710400?s=21
 
To clear up a few things you all have asked me: The $500,000 bond for both Crumbley parents is cash surety. That means they cannot just pay 10%. Their lawyers insist yesterday’s manhunt was because of a miscommunication. Should be interesting to hear what sheriff has to say soon.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1467231147268710400
 
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