MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[nightowl1975]

The Sheriff's office was aware of shooting threats, there was a resource office on staff, the teacher had a drawing of a shooting, yet the parents were expected to call the shots? When the parents decided (it was obviously a choice) to leave him in school, no one did anything? No one objected? No one called in the Resource Officer?

Still, it didn't matter if the gun was already in the building, which is the understanding at this time.

IMO, I think the adults involved made some judgment calls that in hindsight turned out to be tragically wrong. But I think this thread alone demonstrates how the general public lacks awareness of how often this type of thing goes on in schools all over the country. By “this type of thing”, I mean kids who draw violent or alarming things, say violent or alarming things, post it on social media, etc.

 

[everybodhi]

@otto-snip
There are four corpses who, a few days ago, were children.

There are more children hospitalized with a variety of wounds.

There are hundreds of children who likely will experience trauma and PTSD for all their lives.

This is the germane issue. How did children become corpses? A simple formula:

Ethan Crumbley + loaded gun = dead children.

IMO those Michigan gun safety laws are very ambiguous. It’s illegal to allow a minor to own a gun. It’s illegal to allow a minor to obtain unsupervised access to a gun. Yet it’s not mandatory, only recommended, to safely store a gun so a child cannot access it.

Well then IMO the parents should have slept with the gun under their pillows, or taken it upon themselves to lock the gun up, or whatever else it would take to keep it away from Ethan, because this dreadful outcome shows they did not perform their duty of care as parents.

And there is no doubt this gun was meant for Ethan to own. The mother said so and Ethan has social media with that gun in his hands. That’s illegal and the parents didn’t care. So we get the outcome that we got.

Ethan did this, but he was allowed to.

I’ll never get over Ethan at the barricaded classroom door, telling the children inside that he was from the sheriff’s office and they were safe to come out. This is trickery on the most egregious level. And I know the parents don’t care because they ran away and left him to deal with the consequences alone.

Somehow a path was greased to enable Ethan to kill. Laws, Michigan laws, were broken.

Your opinion is very clear and you are entitled to it. This is all my opinion.

Let’s not forget about those young lives lost, their organs now taken to save other’s lives.

On Friday night, family and friends from the Oxford community trekked 15 miles south to McClaren Hospital to support the family of 17-year-old Justin Shilling, the latest—and fourth —fatality from Tuesday’s shooting at Oxford High School.

The captain of the bowling team, Shilling was also an organ donor. Community members gathered in a show of support for the Shilling family, as the teen’s body was wheeled across the third floor for surgery.

“It means a great deal to them clearly,” Sheriff Bouchard said, addressing the grieving crowd of teens and their parents. “Thank you so much for being here on behalf of the family, they wanted me to pass that on.”

“Take care of each other, talk to each other, support each other,” he continued. “This isn’t supposed to be happening and it’s not supposed to happen.”

The crowd gathered for nearly an hour in almost complete silence. Hugs were exchanged. Sniffles could be heard. But the atmosphere was still and keenly focused on the third floor tunnel of the hospital.

At various points members of the Shilling party would walk to the window and wave. And the crowd, silently, would wave back.



School Gunman’s ‘Fugitive’ Parents Laugh, Cry in Court After Wild Manhunt

 

[RANCH]

IMO, I think the adults involved made some judgment calls that in hindsight turned out to be tragically wrong. But I think this thread alone demonstrates how the general public lacks awareness of how often this type of thing goes on in schools all over the country. By “this type of thing”, I mean kids who draw violent or alarming things, say violent or alarming things, post it on social media, etc.

That's why it's important for schools and parents to work together when things like this happen. The school didn't have any way to keep the shooter from accessing the gun but his parents did. JMO.

 

[otto]

School Gunman’s ‘Fugitive’ Parents Laugh, Cry in Court After Wild Manhunt

... On the morning of the shooting on Tuesday, a teacher was “alarmed” at a drawing made by Ethan. It included a handgun with the text, “the thoughts won’t stop. Help me,” and a bullet with the words, “blood everywhere.” There were also some laughing emojis, a person who’d been shot, and the words, “my life is useless,” and “the world is dead,” McDonald said. The drawing prompted staff to remove Ethan from class, and his parents were called into the school. James and Jennifer were shown the drawing and told they had to “get their son into counseling within 48 hours.”
“Both James and Jennifer Crumbley failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located and failed to inspect his backpack,” McDonald said.
They resisted taking Ethan home with them and left the school soon after, she said. Ethan returned to class with the handgun in his backpack.
“The notion that a parent could read those words [in the drawing] and also know that their son had access to a deadly weapon that they gave him is unconscionable. And I think it’s criminal,” McDonald said. ...

It's almost like the parents wanted EC to shoot himself and/or others. Seriously, how does any sane, loving parent totally IGNORE such nihilistic words / drawings?!

They essentially abandoned him at the school and then abandoned him again to flee when charges came down on their heads. This whole messed up family needs psychiatric intervention.

Arguably, they should also be charged with child abuse and child abandonment.

JMO

How does the Daily Beast know that the gun was in the backpack?

"Investigators said Ethan Crumbley, 15, emerged from a bathroom with a gun and started shooting students in the hallway."
​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jennifer-james-crumbley-michigan-school-shooting-1.6273754

​

 

[everybodhi]

The Sheriff's office was aware of shooting threats, there was a resource office on staff, the teacher had a drawing of a shooting, yet the parents were expected to call the shots? When the parents decided (it was obviously a choice) to leave him in school, no one did anything? No one objected? No one called in the Resource Officer?

Still, it didn't matter if the gun was already in the building, which is the understanding at this time.

But the parents did “call the shots” (was your pun intended?), when they refused to take their troubled child home that day and immediately book an emergency appointment with a therapist.

 

[otto]

I found this to be interesting. Michigan Supreme Court. 1923


How does this fit with the parents charges in this case? The part that say's "negligently doing some act lawful in itself" may fit. JMO.

https://cite.case.law/mich/224/106/

Doesn't it still come down to the question of whether the gun was lawfully stored? Can parents store a gun in an unlocked drawer in the bedroom and it is considered lawfully stored in Michigan? It sounds like it, since there's no gun law in private homes. Shouldn't parents have a reasonable expectation that children will not steal the gun?

 

[lovesit]

Makes me wonder, too, what was "preached" and shown to him at home. A lot of little boys try to be like daddy -- playing some kind of sports, watching football, golf, playing the guitar/drums/trumpet/piano, etc., chess, tennis, drawing, lifting weights, going to work, cooking, fixing the car, etc., etc. Maybe Ethan liked to play with guns because his dad did...

I’m this case sounds more like wanting to be like Mommy. She’s clearly got a lot of power here. The ex girlfriend of JC older son said the same about her. She gets whatever she wants. I’ve thought this whole time that EC was looking for her attention, her approval. I think the letter was the most obvious cry for help. When they left and abandoned him at school he did what he could to really give a big FU to them. I feel like a lot of his rage is misdirected towards the school when I’d guess it’s about his home life.

 

[lovesit]

Makes me wonder, too, what was "preached" and shown to him at home. A lot of little boys try to be like daddy -- playing some kind of sports, watching football, golf, playing the guitar/drums/trumpet/piano, etc., chess, tennis, drawing, lifting weights, going to work, cooking, fixing the car, etc., etc. Maybe Ethan liked to play with guns because his dad did...

In this case sounds more like wanting to be like Mommy. She’s clearly got a lot of power here. The ex girlfriend of his son said the same. She gets whatever she wants and clearly EC was looking for her attention. I think the letter was a cry for help. When they abandoned him at school he did what he did as the ultimate FU to them/her, subconsciously. I feel like a lot of his rage is misdirected towards the school when I’d guess it’s about his home life.

 

[otto]

That's why it's important for schools and parents to work together when things like this happen. The school didn't have any way to keep the shooter from accessing the gun but his parents did. JMO.

The parents knew about the weapon, the school knew about his intent, the police knew about a planned shooting. Apparently these three parties did not put it together in time.

 

[otto]

But the parents did “call the shots” (was your pun intended?), when they refused to take their troubled child home that day and immediately book an emergency appointment with a therapist.

Why were the parents given a choice about their child remaining in school? We know they were give a choice because he remained in school. The school did not suspend or otherwise require that he leave the building.

Why would the parents take the situation more seriously when the school did not see his continued presence in the school as a problem?

 

[everybodhi]

How does the Daily Beast know that the gun was in the backpack?

"Investigators said Ethan Crumbley, 15, emerged from a bathroom with a gun and started shooting students in the hallway."
​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jennifer-james-crumbley-michigan-school-shooting-1.6273754

​

He walked in the bathroom with his backpack and exited with only the gun, leaving the backpack in the bathroom where LE recovered it.

 

[everybodhi]

Why were the parents given a choice about their child remaining in school? We know they were give a choice because he remained in school. The school did not suspend or otherwise require that he leave the building.

Why would the parents take the situation more seriously when the school did not see his continued presence in the school as a problem?

Good questions that have been asked on this thread for hours by many knowledgeable people who are professionals that work in schools.

 

[whitelilac]

In honor of Tate Myre
TM42 special patches
Big Ten invites Tate Myre's family, coaches to serve as honorary captains at championship game

 

[otto]

He walked in the bathroom with his backpack and exited with only the gun, leaving the backpack in the bathroom where LE recovered it.

Perhaps, and perhaps the gun was already in the building. I have read that the gun was already in the building, will look for the link.

That would make it easier for him to go to the washroom at any time that afternoon without carrying his backpack to the bathroom. I'm guessing that students do not take their backpacks to the bathroom during class.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Some detailed insight into Jennifer Crumbley, in her own words.

"Dear Mr. Trump...."
Nov 11 2016
[via Archive.org]
Site Title
(Her blog, as referenced by her husband's FB post in the Daily Beast article linked below)

School Gunman’s ‘Fugitive’ Parents Laugh, Cry in Court After Wild Manhunt

 

[tamsidea]

Kids do spend more of their time at school than at home during the school year - more of the time they are awake that is. However, while at school, high school and jr high teachers are seeing a particular student for only an hour to an hour and a half each - along with another 20 or so students. And, during that time they are supposed to teach the entire class a lesson. While they are trained to spot concerning behavior (as 2 seperate teachers did in this case) on a regular basis, they would not have time to sit down and check in with every student during class time.
Parents, on the other hand, theoretically should have that time and be checking in regularly with their kids. The reports said these 2 instances were the first time Ethan had interacted with the Principle's office, so truly none of them (Parents' or school) probably could have imagined what he had planned - BUT - the school would not have known he had access to a gun. Obviously the parents did. If they showed no concern, did not divulge he had been given and had been handeling a gun recently, and refused to take him out of school, I would think the school officials had no choice but to keep him the rest of the day. They would probably believe he would be safer because frankly, what he wrote at least on that drawing, sounded more like he was thinking about self harm than harming others. IMO.

 

[otto]

Good questions that have been asked on this thread for hours by many knowledgeable people who are professionals that work in schools.

Perhaps in a school with 1700 students and three assistant principals (one for each grade) the administrators viewed the Ethan problem as one more student that had to be reprimanded that day, and then wondered "where are we having lunch." It sounds like he was a good student with no history of trouble. This was his first offence, and the drawing was believably a sign of the lively imagination of a future game designer.

We don't know what happened at the meeting, but we know the school did not require that the student leave the building.

It would be unusual for parents to remove a child from school when the school did not require it. The prosecutor can claim that the child was required to leave the building but the parents resisted or refused, but that's not how it works. A suspended child cannot remain in school, especially when the parents are at the meeting. The school could have had the resource officer escort the student to collect his things and taken the family off the property. That did not happen.

 

[Lillymac]

The parents knew about the weapon, the school knew about his intent, the police knew about a planned shooting. Apparently these three parties did not put it together in time.

The police knew about a planned shooting? Oh no, where was that reported? Link??

 

[everybodhi]

I wonder if the defense will present it more along the lines of how a parent buys their teen a car for their birthday or Christmas, but the parent is the actual legal owner of the vehicle. I’ve done that myself… bought my teens “their own” car, but I was the legal owner of the vehicle. Just trying to think of ways the defense will present their side of the story.

It’s not illegal to buy a car for a driver who is under 18 years old, but they do need parental consent to buy a car themselves.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/B-32_159585_7.pdf

 

[tamsidea]

I think that didn't happen because he hadn't "committed an offense." The superintendent said no punishment was given because none was warranted. What he did was concerning- not yet illegal or against the rules.
Again, IMO, he didn't actually make any threats on that drawing. It was more showing he was having very dark disturbing thoughts and again IMO - it really sounded more directed at himself that particular time.