MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[LMDlong]

This meeting was apparently in the counselor’s office, not the principal’s office, so that tells me it was more about being concerned with his well being than discipline. It makes more sense to me that he was not suspended or backpack checked since it was a meeting with the counselor. JMO

I would like to know if during this meeting if the parents were asked is there any weapons in the home and if so are they accessible to him .

 

[mommylicious]

If the concern/ focus of the meeting was self-harm, as it seems it may have been based on some of the recent articles posted, I can see why the school did not insist on him going home if there was going to be nobody there to supervise him and they were worried he would hurt himself. I can also see where they did not see the need to search his backpack. We know what he had in it, but if they were thinking self-harm, that's unlikely to happen at school.

And you can't just kick a student out for the day without cause. It sounds like the biggest threat they felt was EC against himself. Especially as a student with no prior disciplinary actions. Unfortunately, that was not the case. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[mommylicious]

I don’t know if they have lockers. The schools here don’t have lockers anymore—backpacks, coats everything goes with the student everywhere.

Our district has not used lockers the past two years to prevent students congregating in the hallways as a covid precaution. Not sure about Oxford.

 

[Doghairrules]

The parents knew about the weapon, the school knew about his intent, the police knew about a planned shooting. Apparently these three parties did not put it together in time.

The parents knew about the weapon AND the intent. They were the only ones with at least two pieces of the puzzle.

 

[LMDlong]

If the concern/ focus of the meeting was self-harm, as it seems it may have been based on some of the recent articles posted, I can see why the school did not insist on him going home if there was going to be nobody there to supervise him and they were worried he would hurt himself. I can also see where they did not see the need to search his backpack. We know what he had in it, but if they were thinking self-harm, that's unlikely to happen at school.

And you can't just kick a student out for the day without cause. It sounds like the biggest threat they felt was EC against himself. Especially as a student with no prior disciplinary actions. Unfortunately, that was not the case. Hindsight is 20/20.

I understand what your saying and I respect it. But I feel the school and the parents dropped the ball. The pictures from what I read showed concern for EC and others in this day and age with all the past school shootings.

 

[LMDlong]

The parents knew about the weapon AND the intent. They were the only ones with at least two pieces of the puzzle.

Didn’t the school have concerns the day he was observed searching for ammo online ?

 

[Cryptic]

But it sounds like the school did what it could to notify the parents about their concerns and ask for outside support from them. The parents were the ones who did nothing.

I agree.

I think the school made a good faith judgement call based on available information regarding whether or not the shooter was immediately dangerous. They then allowed the student to remain in the school.

Though this was obviously the wrong decision, crystal balls are not issued to school staff.

 

[CrimeAway]

John Kelly, profiler, covered the case (source approved, per mod).

 

[MimosaMornings]

Doesn't it still come down to the question of whether the gun was lawfully stored? Can parents store a gun in an unlocked drawer in the bedroom and it is considered lawfully stored in Michigan? It sounds like it, since there's no gun law in private homes. Shouldn't parents have a reasonable expectation that children will not steal the gun?

Lawfully stored versus easily accessible?

Was the ammunition stored in a separate area from the gun?

Was it casually placed in a bedroom dresser (loaded?) in a low drawer that a younger child could have easily accessed it?

 

[LMDlong]

I am a mother and grandmother and a gun owner. I don’t fault anyone for owning a gun. School shootings really get to me . I don’t know how to explain it. But sometimes it does take a village to raise a child. Red flags were shown and EC’s backpack should have been searched for his safety if the school was not worried about the safety of other students.

 

[Doghairrules]

Didn’t the school have concerns the day he was observed searching for ammo online ?

They did, but mom ignored their efforts to reach out about that.

 

[happyday]

I understand what your saying and I respect it. But I feel the school and the parents dropped the ball. The pictures from what I read showed concern for EC and others in this day and age with all the past school shootings.

I agree the ball was dropped. But I’m not sure yet about the school. It really depends on what they knew, how concerned they were and why they sent him back to class. IME some school districts, especially good ones with high ratings, which affects everything in the community including home values etc., don’t want ANYTHING negative about the schools getting out—they minimize things and are not transparent. I hope that’s not the case with this one. The teachers did everything they were supposed to do when they saw concerning behavior, and the administration seems to have taken it seriously right up until the decision to send him back to class (after parents refused to take him). But these situations do come up periodically, yet no tragic event happens. I’m sure the counselor is probably devastated by the result of his/her decision, but without a crystal ball, how do you know? Sadly there are quite a few messed up kids with concerning behavior at any given school.
I’m not ready to blame the school quite yet, but it really depends on what the investigation shows.

 

[happyday]

Also we have to remember the school wasn’t aware of his new gun like his parents were.

 

[LMDlong]

I agree.

I think the school made a good faith judgement call based on available information regarding whether or not the shooter was immediately dangerous. They then allowed the student to remain in the school.

Though this was obviously the wrong decision, crystal balls are not issued to school staff.

I get what your saying. The school was concerned enough to call the parents in for the meeting . They should have went a step further when his parents refused to take him out of school that day.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Here's a timeline with a bit of information that I didn't already know:

Friday, Nov. 26: James Crumbley buys a 9mm Sig Sauer from Acme Shooting Goods in Oxford, according to Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald. His 15-year-old son Ethan later posts a photo on Instagram of himself holding the semi-automatic handgun, writing: “Just got my new beauty today. SIG SAUER 9mm. Any questions I will answer.” He includes an emoji of a smiling face with heart eyes.

Saturday, Nov. 27: Jennifer Crumbley writes on social media that it is a “mom and son day testing out his new Christmas present,” the prosecutor says.

Monday, Nov. 29: A teacher sees Ethan, a sophomore at Oxford High, searching online for ammunition with his cellphone during class and reports it to school officials, McDonald says. Ethan meets with a school counselor and another staff member. He says he and his mother recently went to a shooting range and that shooting sports are a family hobby, according to Oxford Community Schools Superintendent Tim Throne.

School personnel call his mother, leave a voicemail and email her. She does not respond. While exchanging text messages with her son, she writes: “Lol. I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”

That night, Ethan Crumbley records a video in which he discusses killing students, according to sheriff’s Lt. Tim Willis.

Tuesday, Nov. 30: A teacher finds a note on Ethan’s desk that alarms her enough to take a photo, the prosecutor says. It includes a drawing of a handgun and the words: “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.” Also depicted is a bullet with the words “blood everywhere” above a person who appears to have been shot twice and is bleeding. A laughing emoji is drawn below the figure. The note also says “my life is useless” and “the world is dead.” The teacher reports the information to school counselors and the dean.

A counselor removes Ethan from the classroom and takes him to the office with his backpack. The counselor obtains the drawing, but Ethan has already scratched out portions. He says the drawing is part of a video game he is designing and that he wants a career as a video game designer, the superintendent says.

The parents are summoned to the school for a meeting that occurs around 10 a.m. While the school tries to reach them, Ethan remains in the office for an hour-and-a-half as counselors continue to observe and speak with him, Throne says. Ethan expresses concern about missing homework assignments and asks for his science homework, which he works on while waiting. The counselors do not believe he will harm others based on his behavior, demeanor and responses, according to the superintendent.

The parents arrive and are shown the note. The counselors ask Ethan about his potential for self-harm or harming others. They again conclude he is not a risk due to his answers, which are affirmed by the parents. The parents are advised that they are required to get him counseling within 48 hours or the school will contact Children’s Protective Services. They refuse a request to take their son home for the day and leave without him, apparently to return to work, Throne says. He returns to the classroom rather than go “home to an empty house,” which the superintendent says is because he had no prior disciplinary infractions.

About 12:51 p.m., Ethan emerges from a bathroom with the gun his father bought four days before. He fires at students in the hallway, killing four and wounding six students and one teacher. Deputies capture him within minutes of the shooting. When news of an active shooter becomes public, Jennifer Crumbley texts her son at 1:22 p.m.: “Ethan don’t do it.” Fifteen minutes later, at 1:37 p.m., James Crumbley calls 911 to report that a gun was missing from his house and he believes his son may be the shooter. The gun had been kept unlocked in a drawer in the parents’ bedroom, McDonald says.

Wednesday, Dec. 1: Ethan is charged as an adult with murder and terrorism.

Friday, Dec. 3: James and Jennifer Crumbley are charged with involuntary manslaughter. Authorities cannot find them, and a manhunt is launched.

Saturday, Dec. 4: The Crumbleys are arrested around 1:30 a.m. after being caught hiding at a commercial building in Detroit. They enter not guilty pleas during a Zoom hearing, and a judge sets bond at $500,000 for each.

The superintendent announces there will be a third-party review of all events in the past week because the community and families “deserve a full, transparent accounting of what occurred.”

Key moments surrounding Michigan high school shooting | AP News

Curious about “shooting sports are a family hobby”.

So there are other guns in the house?

Other guns shown on Ethan’s and parents social media showing their hobby?

What sport? Hunting? SASS? Target shooting? Participants in the local gun club?

Wonder why this particular gun?
He’s too young to conceal carry which I would consider this type more suited for versus a “sporting hobby”.
JMO

 

[RANCH]

But it sounds like the school did what it could to notify the parents about their concerns and ask for outside support from them. The parents were the ones who did nothing.

I agree. The school didn't know that EC had easy access to a gun but his parents did. JMO.

 

[LMDlong]

I agree the ball was dropped. But I’m not sure yet about the school. It really depends on what they knew, how concerned they were and why they sent him back to class. IME some school districts, especially good ones with high ratings, which affects everything in the community including home values etc., don’t want ANYTHING negative about the schools getting out—they minimize things and are not transparent. I hope that’s not the case with this one. The teachers did everything they were supposed to do when they saw concerning behavior, and the administration seems to have taken it seriously right up until the decision to send him back to class (after parents refused to take him). But these situations do come up periodically, yet no tragic event happens. I’m sure the counselor is probably devastated by the result of his/her decision, but without a crystal ball, how do you know? Sadly there are quite a few messed up kids with concerning behavior at any given school.
I’m not ready to blame the school quite yet, but it really depends on what the investigation shows.

I understand and agree with you on something’s. But you got a kid that never was cause for concern. Then he’s looking up ammo , drawing pictures. He’s taken out of glass , parents are called and a meeting takes place. If I was a counselor or parent of one of the students I would want to know if EC and his parents were asked in the meeting if there were guns at home . To me a crystal ball is not needed it’s common sense .

 

[Only4Justice]

But he had a loaded weapon with him when that alleged straw appeared. IMO he had been planning to shoot his classmates for some time.

I think he was bullied, but is there any evidence that the kids he shot had abused him? He shot through closed doors and had no way of knowing who some of his potential victims were.

I wondered about this also. Were these poor kids just in the line of fire? He may have not even known them.

and just a reply about “fleeing to Canada”. I doubt that. Detroit is just separated from Canada by the Detroit River. IMO

 

[LMDlong]

I agree. The school didn't know that EC had easy access to a gun but his parents did. JMO.

I agree. But did they inquire about easy access? That should have been asked along with what’s going on at home, has anything changed in his life , does he seem depressed.

 

[lake daze]

The parents immediately suspected Ethan was the shooter. They knew he was dangerous.

They turned off their phones while Ethan was sitting in jail! No matter what your child does, they are still your kid. What if Ethan killed himself in jail? What if he attempted suicide, but he was saved and was in the hospital? As a parent, I would have my phone close to me because I would be so worried about my child. Yes, even Ethan, especially so early in this whole awful scenario. So far the parents aren't looking too good in this sad event.