MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[GoneGoldfishin']

Jennifer and James Crumbley often left their young son home alone while drinking at bars in downtown Lake Orion in 2014 and 2015, former neighbor Kayla LeMieux said. The boy would have been between 8 and 9 years old at that time.
Crumbley family all behind bars in Oxford High School shootings
I wonder how long ago the older brother moved back in with his mother. I wonder if some of his issues with his stepmother had anything to do with alcohol abuse or the couple leaving him in charge of EC for extended periods while they partied without a care.

I wonder a lot of things about these unusual parents.

As I understand it, the older brother only lived with them for 4 months ( I think earlier this year? Not sure on that) with his mother having to fight for child support the rest of the time.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wx...d-for-cash-calls-jennifer-a-monster?_amp=true

 

[borndem]

Jennifer and James Crumbley often left their young son home alone while drinking at bars in downtown Lake Orion in 2014 and 2015, former neighbor Kayla LeMieux said. The boy would have been between 8 and 9 years old at that time.
Crumbley family all behind bars in Oxford High School shootings
I wonder how long ago the older brother moved back in with his mother. I wonder if some of his issues with his stepmother had anything to do with alcohol abuse or the couple leaving him in charge of EC for extended periods while they partied without a care.

I wonder a lot of things about these unusual parents.

bbm

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Jennifer and James Crumbley often left their young son home alone while drinking at bars in downtown Lake Orion in 2014 and 2015, former neighbor Kayla LeMieux said. The boy would have been between 8 and 9 years old at that time.
Crumbley family all behind bars in Oxford High School shootings
I wonder how long ago the older brother moved back in with his mother. I wonder if some of his issues with his stepmother had anything to do with alcohol abuse or the couple leaving him in charge of EC for extended periods while they partied without a care.

I wonder a lot of things about these unusual parents.

In March of 2020, right before the pandemic.

The older brother hinted at some family turmoil that prompted him to abruptly move out last March, to live with his biological mother in Florida where he grew up.

Brother of Ethan Crumbley says he never exhibited violent tendencies | Daily Mail Online

 

[Chelly]

Brian Entin
@BrianEntin
1h
A somber scene this week in Oxford, Michigan — as funerals are happening for the victims of last week’s shooting.

 

[ilovewings]

BBM

Vertigo. Happened to me in my office once after I got up too fast. I was afraid to walk (even though the dizziness made me nauseous) because I would have looked just like that.

I think we have no idea why he had this physical issue.

Perhaps the AG made a gentle offer the first time (out of respect). After the school district's refusal, the next AG "offer" may be mandatory investigation.

I hope so

 

[bestill]

I do wonder if the owners of the restaurant showed Ethan's mom the video of his fall. I suspect not. We may be finding out more about his health since he's now in jail, they will be doing an examinations and careful evaluations I would think.

 

[borndem]

Jennifer and James Crumbley often left their young son home alone while drinking at bars in downtown Lake Orion in 2014 and 2015, former neighbor Kayla LeMieux said. The boy would have been between 8 and 9 years old at that time.
Crumbley family all behind bars in Oxford High School shootings
I wonder how long ago the older brother moved back in with his mother. I wonder if some of his issues with his stepmother had anything to do with alcohol abuse or the couple leaving him in charge of EC for extended periods while they partied without a care.

I wonder a lot of things about these unusual parents.

bbm

The older son has been on my mind, too. He left James & Jennifer and went to live with his mother... Why?

 

[razzledazzle]

bbm

The older son has been on my mind, too. He left James & Jennifer and went to live with his mother... Why?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wx...d-for-cash-calls-jennifer-a-monster?_amp=true

Brother of Ethan Crumbley says he never exhibited violent tendencies | Daily Mail Online

Based on these 2 links, my conclusion is that he was raised in FL by his mother and went to stay with his father and Ethan for about 4 months, but returned home because of issues with Jennifer. Maybe he wanted to build a relationship with James and Ethan, but that didn't work out so well with Jennifer. JMO...

ETA: My heart goes out to Eli as well.

 

[LadyL]

Where I live we do not send 14 year old's to work menial jobs.

I don't find it unusual
where I live it's normal to have your first job at 14 to start to learn responsibility and have your own spending cash
as for menial, every job is important & what other qualifications would a 14 year old have?

 

[LMDlong]

MOO
I honestly think its too much to ask of schools to be perfect in assessing threats.

Here we have a student being taught to lie, getting an expensive hand gun for Christmas, <modsnip - no link>

No one is perfect. This is not the first deadly school shooting and sadly to say it probably won’t be the last . School administrations have learned somethings from the previous shootings but it’s not enough. Innocent children are dead when they would be looking forward to Christmas break. Parents have had to go make funeral and burial arrangements for their children instead of Christmas shopping. Parents entrust schools that their children will return home each day. If backpacks are be searched at airports, federal buildings, and court houses the ours schools should do the same when presented with a situation like Oxford High School had last week. I have first hand spoke with parents and school officials who said how did this child get sent back to class. There are resources available to help schools , counselors , teachers etc to access these kind of situations. A five second search would not have hurt anyone , but a loaded gun sure did. IMO

 

[KMouse]

Liability since it happened at a business in case of law suit?

This. They may have pulled it in case there was a workplace injury claim.

 

[KMouse]

Liability since it happened at a business in case of law suit?

This. They may have pulled it in case there was a workplace injury claim.

When a juvenile is in jail, parents lose the ability to make a lot of decisions, but not necessarily all. They can hire an attorney for their child, handle their child’s estate if he or she has one, etc.

When a child is in foster care, their ability to make decisions for their child typically is taken completely. At least temporarily.

If the child has a guardian, then the parents may still retain some control and they retain most of their parental rights.

It's likely that CPS was advised when EC was arrested due to him being a minor. If the parents are in jail I assume that CPS would step in and be the ad hoc parent.

 

[LadyL]

I would have had him in my car on the way to the doctor's office or the ER. It certainly isn't normal -- drugs or sickness or a call for help or attention. What went on in that home?

I'm surprised the manager didn't call for an ambulance tbh.

 

[kaen]

I am a bit worried about the CPS involvement. If Ethan was neglected as a child, it may go to his defense. It may bolster the case against the parents, but I’m not sure of that either. If they were already neglecting their son, would they have been aware of his emotional and mental status? They should have been as his parents, but I can envision this backfiring legally. As in, Ethan had issues due to parental neglect and parents were not aware, because.. they were neglectful.

There are thousands of young people in prison for actions they took AND having come from homes where they are neglected and abused. Long ago, the narrative of a bad home life had been stripped from being seen as a viable defense to juries, courts and the American people. This forum has lots of cases. I think this murderer will be convicted and will probably never see the outside of a prison in his life.

It is sad to me that there are any young people who wind up behind bars before they have really grown up. That said, killing your peers is something we have all decided that should be a clear "go to jail, go directly to jail" scenario. With Ethan Couch, never being held responsible I was reminded of the inequities that can occur but school shootings where the shooter survives seems to be a scenario that gets prison and little grace.

 

[borndem]

Why do you see that but not that he seems drunk? I've never fallen over from smoking weed. IMO. His biff was a classic drunk move IMO. In any case, I fail to see how it has anything to do with him murdering 4 kids.

I tend to think pot over booze because if he was that drunk on booze, I think someone would have smelled it. I've never fallen over from weed either, but I was not 14 years old... It certainly could have been booze, yes... Or it could have been his not having eaten -- and who knoze, he may not have eaten the night before as well -- it can make someone weak and it possibly could have made him dizzy. Maybe he was acting...

 

[JayWill]

There are thousands of young people in prison for actions they took AND having come from homes where they are neglected and abused. Long ago, the narrative of a bad home life had been stripped from being seen as a viable defense to juries, courts and the American people. This forum has lots of cases. I think this murderer will be convicted and will probably never see the outside of a prison in his life.

It is sad to me that there are any young people who wind up behind bars before they have really grown up. That said, killing your peers is something we have all decided that should be a clear "go to jail, go directly to jail" scenario. With Ethan Couch, never being held responsible I was reminded of the inequities that can occur but school shootings where the shooter survives seems to be a scenario that gets prison and little grace.

I wonder if he gave any thought to what would happen after his shooting spree? He surrendered quietly it seems.

 

[kaen]

MOO
I honestly think its too much to ask of schools to be perfect in assessing threats.

Here we have a student being taught to lie, getting an expensive hand gun for Christmas, <modsnip - no link>

Schools and LE have to work hand in hand in assessing threats. The counselor did have a door open to her/him when he said he went shooting. Even if that line of questioning was not followed up, the counselor could have (and should have, imo) asked the resource officer to check for weapons on this young man. One day he was searching for ammo at school and another he is making drawings and writing phrases that are violent and pleading for help. I work in schools and don't think this is a lot. It is unfortunate but this is where we are as a society. It is baked into the job. Years ago, teachers would not have made a referral to the counselor or administrator. Now, we see a weak spot in the chain to protect kids in this school's counselor or the interview process. We've got to get better.

IMO, the family should not have been able to leave him at the school. They should have had to take him home and gotten psychological help in 48 hours (any of my peers in schools would agree). Just because he was calm and seeming to want to do school work, he was having concerning thoughts. If he had not worked with that counselor before (or given the fact that his mom poo-pooed the last reach out about the internet search) he might not have felt comfortable letting his guard down and disclosing any thoughts or feelings. In these kinds of cases, most of the professionals I know determine that the actions taken (that brought the kid into the office unless it is a high energy, spontaneous fight) tell us more than the words the kid is saying in the conversation. Without a built relationship, you don't know what you don't know so you respond to the conditions that brought the kid into your office.

 

[kaen]

I wonder if he gave any thought to what would happen after his shooting spree? He surrendered quietly it seems.

We don't know what was happening in his head and probably never will. My guess is that he was feeling dead or numb inside. Many teenagers do not have a solidly built sense of cause and effect. It is not uncommon to ask what a kid was thinking when they did x or y. If he was guided by an urge, maybe he thought doing this action was going to help him feel something or anything. His psychopathology will be interesting to further understand if he goes to trial rather than pleading guilty. It is clear that while he wanted to shoot others, he did not want to die.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

MOO
I honestly think its too much to ask of schools to be perfect in assessing threats.

Here we have a student being taught to lie, getting an expensive hand gun for Christmas, <modsnip - no link>

I agree, but these were some glaring red flags, it concerns me that other than a discussion with said manipulative kid, they took no other simple actions such as searching his backpack. They deal with lies and manipulative kids every day. They were concerned enough about his mental health to threaten CPS intervention if the parents did not follow through with counseling. I agree with another poster who said if he had been physically hurt they would’ve taken immediate action, mental health should be treated the same way, this was an immediate need despite Ethan’s lie it was a video game drawing. I would be more forgiving if they had at least searched his backpack, taken any proactive steps.

 

[LMDlong]

Here we have a student being taught to lie, getting an expensive hand gun for Christmas, <modsnip - no link>[/QUOTE]