MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

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Kristin Esq. said:
My point is, that I don't know if these attorneys are properly equipped with handling this case, where EC's court appointed public defender may be better because they have the experience.

For example, I have mainly worked in the civil area, I would not volunteer to take on a murder case pro bono because I have no experience in it. These attorneys mainly handle sex crimes per their website.
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Hmmmm, interesting. Thanks for the info, @Kristin Esq. Sex crimes, eh?
These two "parents" seem to be about as intelligent as a box of rox. SMH.

Maybe the law firm is trying to expand their expertise, or possibly pay the office rent.
We'll see how this goes, I hope... SMH
 
Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats said:
The text was 30 minutes after the shootings. When his parents heard of the shootings they went home, discovered the gun was missing and I am guessing also the journal's LE referred too. I don’t think the text is that much of a smoking gun, it could be Ethan wrote about suicide after the shootings. I do think what is a smoking gun is the fact that when they heard about the shootings they thought that Ethan could be the shooter, otherwise why would they go to their house to search for the gun. This is so telling to me, that they did have some type of prior knowledge that he was capable/wanting to do this. Repeating myself but how many parents would suspect their child is the shooter?
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Hadn't they just been in a meeting at the school about EC looking up ammunition and seen a picture of a bloody image. And also the words help me?
 
Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats said:
The text was 30 minutes after the shootings. When his parents heard of the shootings they went home, discovered the gun was missing and I am guessing also the journal's LE referred too. I don’t think the text is that much of a smoking gun, it could be Ethan wrote about suicide after the shootings. I do think what is a smoking gun is the fact that when they heard about the shootings they thought that Ethan could be the shooter, otherwise why would they go to their house to search for the gun. This is so telling to me, that they did have some type of prior knowledge that he was capable/wanting to do this. Repeating myself but how many parents would suspect their child is the shooter?
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Hadn't they just been in a meeting at the school about EC looking up ammunition and seen a picture of a bloody image. And also the words help me?
 
Lillymac said:
Hadn't they just been in a meeting at the school about EC looking up ammunition and seen a picture of a bloody image. And also the words help me?
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Yes they had and they refused to take him home when the school requested. Along with the school counselor, at that point they were ok with sending him back to the classroom. The prosecutor has said she has over 100 hours of electronic evidence. I think in there is going to be evidence that they had prior knowledge of Ethan's state of mind. In my opinion I don’t think they had an oh no moment we made a mistake by not taking the drawing seriously, I think it was more of a "he really did it" moment. Previously on the other thread somebody posted an article studying school shootings. It is shocking how many of the parents had direct knowledge of their child’s thoughts and did nothing to try to prevent a tragedy like this from happening. And one case the child was in counseling, told the counselor their thoughts of wanting to kill students, counselor advised the parents to be sure the child didn’t have access to any weapons, they didn’t change the locks/combinations on anything. MOO
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
I was curious about when the Oxford Community Schools Board of Education would be meeting and noticed that a regularly scheduled meeting would have been held last night. That meeting was canceled, as was a special meeting on December 14 to recognize student arts, athletics, and academics. There is a special meeting scheduled for December 15 that might be the first opportunity that the public will have to express concerns about the shooting and how the district plans to move forward to keep students safe. Board of Education - Oxford Community School (oxfordschools.org)
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Hmmmm, @BetteDavisEyes, interesting. Thanks for finding that info.

Good and not good, methinks. Hoping that those students who were going to be recognized will be recognized at a later date. It's important, IMO, to keep good things going. The school won't be closing for all time, I'm sure. Good students are so very important. It's just got to be done in a way that somehow can inspire those who are "just average." That's such a near-insulting term -- maybe calling them "striving and thriving" or something would be a good start. (Not saying anyone at the school has said "just average," but there are lots of students who are in that big part of the bell curve.) Those students who are below that part of the curve for many different reasons -- "struggling" or "just don't give a damm" -- what's to be done about them?

Whew, what a meeting that might be on the 15th. The public. Who knoze what will be discussed, and who will stand up? I'm thinking that at least some of those parents whose children survived probably aren't sleeping well at night yet. And I cannot even imagine how it is for those who lost a child. SMH.

Will this madness ever stop?
 
jenn83 said:
Might not be. My high school child isn't interested in being involved in any clubs or school activities.
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That's not uncommon at all --many students simply have good friends or other interests -- sports, studying, dance, music, art, scouts, church/synagogue/mosque meetings or classes, after-school jobs, home duties, etc., and that's all they need to feel involved, helpful, learning, or interested. Some students attend the sports team games, plays, musicals, arts, concerts, etc., some don't.

As long as they are treated well, able to look forward to the next day (at least most of the time!), feel appreciated, valued, loved, and feel they are worth something -- they should be in good shape. Not all students have these opportunities or situations, and they have to do the best they can. Some seek help; some do not or don't know how. Some succeed, and some do not.
 
Investigators uncover numerous drawings, writings created by suspected Oxford High School shooter (clickondetroit.com)

...Sheriff’s investigators have uncovered numerous drawings and writings that they believe were created by Ethan Crumbley. Investigators are going over every word. They are working to determine when they were written and what kind of clues they give that a shooting was imminent. They also want to know who else may have seen these drawings before the shooting.

Those are not the first notes that were discovered. A teacher at the high school found a note and drawing on Ethan Crumbley’s desk just hours before the shooting...
 
It is worrisome to me that we would try to decipher when such a tragedy would be imminent. Rather, the first sign of a red flag should be to assume it might be imminent. One big red flag should be all it takes. Proactive response.
 
IMO I also think the board shouldn't say that they...frankly are grieving too. The first communication should be for the parents and siblings and relatives of those who had their lives taken or are in critical care.
 
rbbm. lengthy.
By Melissa Chan
December 8, 2021
''In school shootings that end with the shooter dying by suicide, or even when a child dies at home after accessing a gun, Mattei and other experts say there’s a national tendency among authorities to feel sympathy for the parents. “People say the same thing,” Watts says. “Oh, you know, this is such a horrible tragedy. We can’t punish them. They’ve suffered enough.” Watts says that sentiment is particularly widespread in states with lax gun laws.

But in Michigan, where there are no secure-storage laws, prosecutors say they had enough evidence of negligence to mount their case without having to rely solely on a firearm statute. “I am in no way saying that an active shooter situation should always result in a criminal prosecution against parents,” McDonald said, “but the facts of this case are so egregious.”

James and Jennifer Crumbley have each pleaded not guilty, and bond was individually set at $500,000. During a video arraignment, their defense lawyers said the gun was locked and that more information would come to light.

Could James and Jennifer Crumbley prove an exception?
But Mattei believes a conviction is likely if the case goes to trial and the parents don’t plead guilty beforehand, especially since the involuntary manslaughter charges they face do not harp on the firearm used in the attack. Prosecutors only need to prove gross negligence resulting in death, meaning that the parents failed to act when they had reason to believe there were circumstances that an ordinary person would recognize as capable of causing grievous harm, Mattei says.''
 
Former Ethan Crumbley neighbor called Children's Protective Services on parents years ago: report
Michigan school shooting suspect's parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley are each facing four counts of involuntary manslaughter
Paul Best1 day ago
Detroit US marshal details arrests of James and Jennifer Crumbley
Deputy Aaron Garcia, of the U.S. Marshals Detroit Fugitive Apprehension Team, details arrests of parents of suspected Michigan school shooter.

Law enforcement and prosecutors have noted the many warning signs that preceded the massacre at Oxford High School last week, including that 15-year-old Ethan Crumbley was caught Googling ammunition the day before the tragedy and was found with a picture depicting a violent act that said, "The thoughts won’t stop. Help me."

But a former neighbor of James and Jennifer Crumbley, who, like their son, are in the Oakland County jail, told the Detroit Free Press that the Crumbleys started displaying concerning behavior years ago that prompted her to make a complaint with Children's Protective Services.

"When they were gone, he would come knock on our door," Kayla LeMieux told the newspaper of Ethan when his parents would leave him at home alone to go drinking at bars in 2014 and 2015. "They didn’t leave him with a phone."

BeFunky-collage-5-1.jpg

James and Jennifer Crumbley are both facing four counts of involuntary manslaughter. (Oakland County Sheriff's Office)

LeMieux said that the parents continued leaving their son at home alone even after she made a complaint and confronted them about it.

"It was really when I finally started to say more, because I was just like, even after calling CPS, they were still doing it and even me saying something to them, they were still like ‘Oh he is fine,'" she told the Detroit Free Press.

Children's Protective Services did not respond to a request for comment

….. more in the article
 
human said:
Former Ethan Crumbley neighbor called Children's Protective Services on parents years ago: report
>>>> snipped by borndem <<<<
"When they were gone, he would come knock on our door," Kayla LeMieux told the newspaper of Ethan when his parents would leave him at home alone to go drinking at bars in 2014 and 2015. "They didn’t leave him with a phone."
>>>> snipped by borndem <<<<
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The quote above from the article posted by @human says a lot about the Crumbley parents, IMO. During those years cited above, Ethan was around 7, 8 or 9 years old. If he had heard a funny noise or gotten sick or hungry, what was he to do? He went to the neighbor's house. So would I have done at that age. Again, not pleading a case for Ethan at all, but that is neglect and it is leaving a child in possible danger. What if he had had a headache or other ailment while they were gone, and had taken too many aspirin or whatever pills he may have found? And what were the neighbors supposed to do? SMH.
Just one big fat mess. JMO.
 
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Oh, I just saw an article today that said that there were three findings of weapons at NC schools in two days this week. Two guns were loaded and one was not. No shootings or anything, but weapons were found. One found on a search at school; one found on a tip; and one was found on a school bus search.
Thank goodness that no one was harmed, but it is still incidents of weapons headed for or found in schools.
The students with the weapons face up to a year's suspension from school.
All I can do is be glad that no one was harmed and SMH.
 
Does anyone know how far the Crumbley's lived from the school? I am stuck on the idea that the school requested that they take their son home and they refused. I believe I read somewhere that they claimed a need to return to work. Why not drop him off at home and then return to work? I find it odd that they would have no problem leaving an 8-9 year old home alone to go drinking but for some reason did not seem willing to have their 15 year old son home alone. Also , after the meeting they did not think to go home and check on the status of the gun that they purchased for their kid four days prior. Even though they seemed to know immediately upon hearing of an active shooter that their son was the perpetrator they certainly knew he was capable of the act.
 
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