MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[Gardenista]

I heard it, and the whoever made the call for the school really downplayed the situation, and seemed apologetic for calling, and ended the call on an upbeat note by wishing them a happy holiday.

It didn't sound like something that the school was very concerned about.

Same impression I had. Bet the school parents are going nuts over that today.

 

[MrsWatson]

Four revelations about Crumbleys in first day of Oxford shooting hearing

 

[A2FMNST]

Ethan desperately needed his parents and they cared more about themselves and their horses than their son deteriorating mental condition.

His visual and auditory hallucinations were present in MARCH!

He was texting his friend about shooting up the school in AUGUST!

When he reached out (via texts) asking his parents to come home in the evening, he was met with silence or deflection (Where is your dad?) hours later. These two were completely unplugged and checked out.

Thank you @Kristin Esq. Much appreciated!!!

 

[Tabulator]

Same impression I had. Bet the school parents are going nuts over that today.

Okay. WOW. That is disturbing - I completely agree - very casual. Way too lackadaisical for an issue regarding bullets and researching them in class.

Unfortunately, we won't be hearing from school personell anytime soon, but I will be very interested in learning about EC's academic and discipline history. The school won't make public statements because of impending litigation and EC's age - but it does appear this kid was a time bomb.

I know it has been reported that EC intends on pursuing an insanity defense - if he was truly mentally ill then the school should have seen all kinds of warning signs. I know many students who compartmentalize, but real mental illness manifests over all environments - school, home, and recreation.

Given what was shared yesterday, the mother was certainly aware that her son's behavior was off - I mean he thought the house was haunted and things were being moved around. Why would ANYONE believe that gifting a firearm to this kid would be a good idea?

 

[strawberry]

Ethan desperately needed his parents and they cared more about themselves and their horses than their son deteriorating mental condition.

His visual and auditory hallucinations were present in MARCH!

He was texting his friend about shooting up the school in AUGUST!

When he reached out (via texts) asking his parents to come home in the evening, he was met with silence or deflection (Where is your dad?) hours later. These two were completely unplugged and checked out.

Thank you @Kristin Esq. Much appreciated!!!

I'm just listening to this part now and my jaw is on the floor. I work at a psychiatric facility with people with schizophrenia and i thought WOW he was experiencing psychosis, possible early schizophrenia. I can't believe they didn't get him help then!

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Quotes RSBM. I am wondering what these exchanges are really all about:

3/19 at 9:37 - Jen to James, you away? Ethan awake?
James; um yeah
Jen: How is he?
James; He woke up looking like he had way too much to drink last night.
Jen: He was really worked up and out of control so I can see why.
James: All he needs to do is eat, work hard to get his stuf back.

Cod this mean EC drank from his parents' supply in the home, at least once, and they were aware of it? If so, did they continue to keep a supply of liquor in the home?

I totally thought you were giving him a zanax last night, no melotonin.
Jen: he hasn't had it before, should only give him half.
Jen: Does he remember what he did

Does this mean someone in the home was prescribed Xanax? Who and why? Were his parents providing him with Xanax?

Melatonin is over-the-counter and legal. Was he taking melatonin as a sleep aid? If so, what dosage, and how was if affecting him?

ETA: And was he doing things and not remembering what he did? If so, why did his parents think this was happening?

Did they seek medical attention for him for anything? If not, will they be asked why not?

Regarding mental illness, sometimes people will try to self-medicate in some way to deal with it...

And finally I wonder, could consumption of something, or a combination of somethings, or withdrawal from something(s) he consumed, have contributed to his various states of mind?

 

[kaen]

I heard it, and whoever made the call for the school really downplayed the situation, and seemed apologetic for calling, and ended the call on an upbeat note by wishing them a happy holiday.

It didn't sound like something that the school was very concerned about.

This tone and downplaying has been concerning from when we started to hear about the situation after the shooting. I have said it before and now again--- the leadership of the school and the district have a part in this tragedy. Never would you see a response like the one about the ammo or the drawings on the day of the shooting from almost any school in the country. There is a lot of blame to go around--the murderer, his parents and the school leaders. The child was failed by his parents and the school leadership/counseling team.

I have been hard on the parents all along. But, if the school presented information as they did in that phone call, then, they might not have been obstinate and refusing. These thoughts make my stomach turn. I would never want these administrators in charge of my child's school.


JMHO.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Quotes RSBM. I am wondering what these exchanges are really all about:



Cod this mean EC drank from his parents' supply in the home, at least once, and they were aware of it? If so, did they continue to keep a supply of liquor in the home?



Does this mean someone in the home was prescribed Xanax? Who and why? Were his parents providing him with Xanax?

Melatonin is over-the-counter and legal. Was he taking melatonin as a sleep aid? If so, what dosage, and how was if affecting him?

ETA: And was he doing things and not remembering what he did? If so, why did his parents think this was happening?

Did they seek medical attention for him for anything? If not, will they be asked why not?

Regarding mental illness, sometimes people will try to self-medicate in some way to deal with it...

And finally I wonder, could consumption of something, or a combination of somethings, or withdrawal from something(s) he consumed, have contributed to his various states of mind?

Jen had “checked out” from her marriage and dealing with EC. Detached physically and emotionally. Used horses as way to avoid going home.
JMO

Wonder why the bouncing around of jobs with James? Does that mean Jen was the main source of income for the family? Health insurance through her company?

 

[A2FMNST]

I'm just listening to this part now and my jaw is on the floor. I work at a psychiatric facility with people with schizophrenia and i thought WOW he was experiencing psychosis, possible early schizophrenia. I can't believe they didn't get him help then!

It’s incredibly sad on so many levels. Those parents who had to bury their children will continue to be in my prayers. They are living a parents’ worst nightmare.

Ethan should not have had to shoot his classmates to get his parents attention. I hope we find out they at least TRIED to get Ethan help before this. The Michigan mental health system has it’s challenges. It can be very difficult to get help and even more so during the pandemic.

But…

I just can’t wrap my brain around the unconscionable apathy we saw illustrated today. He needed help. He needed his parents. He needed one of the two people he lived with to drive him to the nearest psych emergency room (U of M is an hour away and 24/7/365) and demand he be seen by a psychiatrist.

 

[MrsWatson]

Are they not in court today?

I've gotten so wrapped up in the testimony, I haven't paid any attention to the schedule.

 

[Only4Justice]

Both Crumbleys seem very immature and self-absorbed. During their initial court appearance, they both blatantly ignored the Court's mask requirement by letting their masks slip below their noses/mouths so they could whisper to each other. The kisses and hand signals were disgraceful during the zoom hearing. Their attorneys need to advise James and Jennifer on proper decorum in Court. JMO

their misuse of their masks makes me want to slap them both

 

[A2FMNST]

Are they not in court today?

I've gotten so wrapped up in the testimony, I haven't paid any attention to the schedule.

FEB 24th 8:30AM Eastern the hearing continues!

 

[Spyralflare]

I just can’t wrap my brain around the unconscionable apathy we saw illustrated today. He needed help. He needed his parents. He needed one of the two people he lived with to drive him to the nearest psych emergency room (U of M is an hour away and 24/7/365) and demand he be seen by a psychiatrist.

Very well stated. Apathy about their own child, as if he were of no interest to them and completely disposable. The mental issues this boy has may well stem from being completely irrelevant to his parents. This, plus this courtroom signals, is really indicative of the parents needing mental health help themselves.
Why even have a child if you’re just really not interested in being a parent?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

After reading @Kristin Esq.'s excellent witness summaries from yesterday's hearing, I've reassessed my stance on EC.

His parents are worse than horrific. Long before the shooting, he started hearing noises, voices, seeing 'demons', he was afraid and asked for help - he was ignored.

They gave him a gun. Hoping he'd do what, exactly?

They spent a whopping 13 minutes in the school counselor's office, viewed his bloody, murderous drawing, his words, his clear cry for help - then refused to deal with him, just ABANDONED him at school to go back to work. At that point, he probably thought he really had nothing left - his own parents certainly proved they didn't care enough about him to immediately take him to a mental health facility. Nothing else left to lose, he started shooting. After 15 YEARS of neglect, he finally got their attention but it was too damn late. Worse, they abandoned him AGAIN after he was arrested and fled to save themselves.

EC is as much a victim in this tragedy as the students / staff at Oxford. His hideous parents are the core catalyst for this entire catastrophe. They should never see the light of day again. EC must get the professional help he so desperately needs and most likely can never be released back into society. Talk about a lost, damaged soul.

JMO

 

[kaen]

Part of the data extraction found that he spent huge amounts of time looking up school shootings on one site in the fall. This must be after his friend had left.

His mom was looking up clinical depression after the March belief of people in the house. Seems like he was out of control and things in the house were getting messed up. Giving him Melatonin rather than help.

Ughhh. It rises to the level of medical neglect. Unfortunately, the students he killed paid the price for the parent's neglect.

 

[Knitty]

Fifth Witness: Detective Edward Wagrowski



People's proposed 22: Chat convo between Ethan and Jennifer. Starts on March 6, 2021.

From EC to JC:
- Can you get home now?
- There is osmoeone in the house I think (7:50pm)
- Someone walked into the bathroom and flushed the toilet and left the light on.
- I thought it was you
- There's no on in the house tho, dude my door just slammed.
-Maybe it's just my paranoia.
- But when are you going to get home?
NO RESPONSE ON THAT DATE.

The next day: 3/10 at 10:21am
Where's your dad?

Proposed 23: more messages.

3/17/2021 6:03PM
From EC to JC:
- Okay the house is now haunted
- some weird **** happened and I'm scared
- I got some videos
- And a picture of a demon
- I'm not joking it ****** up the kitchen
- I'm just going to be outsider for a while.
- Can you at least text back (6:29pm)
No response from Jen on that date.

3/19 at 4:11pm - Reponse
Where is your dad?

3/19
JC: Text me when your done.
JC Done yet?

3/20:
From EC: I finished picking up the room
- I finished until the clothes fell off the shelf
- This only happens when I'm home alone.
- I picked the clothes back up though

What was Jen doing during that time? Horseback riding.

People's 24: Photograph 3/9/2021 at 4:55pm. It was from Jen's phone. Picture of the horse.

People 25: Photo 3/17/2021 6:03pm. It's a photo of James on a horse.

Ethan was texting his mom about the house being haunted.

People's 26: Photo 3/17 at 6:03PM - a self with the horse.

#27: 3/20/21 at 12:02pm. Another horse picture.

No phone calls from James to Ethan, or Jen to Ethan.

People's proposed 28: FB Messenger thread between James and Jennifer.

3/19 at 9:37 - Jen to James, you away? Ethan awake?
James; um yeah
Jen: How is he?
James; He woke up looking like he had way too much to drink last night.
Jen: He was really worked up and out of control so I can see why.
James: All he needs to do is eat, work hard to get his stuf back.
They were going to fast for me to type all it out!

I totally thought you were giving him a zanax last night, no melotonin.
Jen: he hasn't had it before, should only give him half.
Jen: Does he remember what he did
James: dude I'm working on a demo right now.

RSBM This section from March 6 to March 19 breaks my heart. He's hearing things, seeing things, begging for help and these two are so wrapped up in their own stuff they can't be bothered to pay any attention to him, or even answer his texts.

And March 19 . . . "really worked up and out of control", "All he needs to do is eat, work hard to get his stuf back", "I totally thought you were giving him a zanax last night", "does he remember what he did"

What did he do? What happened that caused them to remove access to "stuf" and Ethan to be totally out of control and need a "zanax?" But didn't rise to getting him help.

"Does he remember what he did?" What in the world?

 

[LaborDayRN]

I just cannot shake the (terrible) thought that they may have purchased the gun for severely troubled EC, hoping he would "take care" of their #1 problem - HIM. Maybe not as a coldly deliberate act but subconsciously? They did indeed abandon him after the shooting.

JMO

I feel the same way.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The more I think about his parents allowing him access to a gun, the more I also have to wonder what they thought was going to happen. Based on the phone messages, they can't say they didn't realize he had mental health issues. He showed them more than once.

In the phone messages and testimony, I do see a glimmer of a mother who cared about her son but just didn't know how to help him. (For example testimony that she was afraid he'd be lonely after his friend moved away.) So far I don't see that glimmer from the "All he needs to do is work hard" father.

The message asking his mother to respond to his message is heartbreaking.

 

[Toodles5000]

The more I think about his parents allowing him access to a gun, the more I also have to wonder what they thought was going to happen. Based on the phone messages, they can't say they didn't realize he had mental health issues. He showed them more than once.

In the phone messages and testimony, I do see a glimmer of a mother who cared about her son but just didn't know how to help him. (For example testimony that she was afraid he'd be lonely after his friend moved away.) So far I don't see that glimmer from the "All he needs to do is work hard" father.

The message asking his mother to respond to his message is heartbreaking.

Honestly, I think her concern about the friend moving away wasn't about E, but more about being annoyed that they (the parents) would have to deal with him more.

 

[Kingsley]

It’s incredibly sad on so many levels. Those parents who had to bury their children will continue to be in my prayers. They are living a parents’ worst nightmare.

Ethan should not have had to shoot his classmates to get his parents attention. I hope we find out they at least TRIED to get Ethan help before this. The Michigan mental health system has it’s challenges. It can be very difficult to get help and even more so during the pandemic.

But…

I just can’t wrap my brain around the unconscionable apathy we saw illustrated today. He needed help. He needed his parents. He needed one of the two people he lived with to drive him to the nearest psych emergency room (U of M is an hour away and 24/7/365) and demand he be seen by a psychiatrist.

He didn't need them to put a gun in his hands under those circumstances. IMO.