MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
I can't help but wonder about EC and people like him. They've probably never been loved, are hated now, and probably never will be loved (I don't think anyone could ever trust him). My heart physically aches. But on the other hand his actions were so horrendous and have permanently destroyed lives. It was a cold and evil event. Can there be redemption? What will be done? What should be done?
 
Kingsley said:
I can't help but wonder about EC and people like him. They've probably never been loved, are hated now, and probably never will be loved (I don't think anyone could ever trust him). My heart physically aches. But on the other hand his actions were so horrendous and have permanently destroyed lives. It was a cold and evil event. Can there be redemption? What will be done? What should be done?
Click to expand...
It's such a helpless feeling when a child recognizes his own mental deteoriation and calls out to his parents for help...and gets none. How often in the cases does this happen? He is ignored, mom says he's not normal. So, let's give him some melatonin. The incredible attitude of this mother, this child asking for help and getting none, borders on total apathy and an entire insane family. I just can't believe it. I am shaken to the core. OMG! What specie are they???
 
The fortunate/unfortunate thing is that he appears to have known the difference between right and wrong as evidenced by 4 actions he took:

1. He made the drawing AND when confronted with it scratched out the "inappropriate" items.

2. He took his backpack into the bathroom to get out the gun in order to gain the advantage of surprise and be out of view of the cameras.

3. According to reports in MSM, he went specifically after students but when confronted by police, he put the gun down and surrendered.

4. His behavior with the counselors on the 29th and 30th (aside from the explicit drawings) was not unusual enough to raise any alarm bells for the school (although at my school he would have been EMS'd if the family didn't take him home based on the drawing). He was able to calmly and clearly show that he understood that what he did was concerning and was able to commit to not doing it again (I would assume) causing the admins at the school to let him stay.

I have no doubt that he has mental illness issues of some sort. But, I don't think he has demonstrated that he was not functioning in reality or unable to understand the consequences of his actions. Or, that he is currently unable to understand the consequences of his actions. If he is found incompetent, there are any number of pharmacological interventions that could restore his competency. The killer at Stoneman Douglas also toyed with an insanity plea but none came and he plead guilty to the counts (odd to write as we approach the anniversary that massacre). At least the Stoneman Douglas killer had school officials and counselor who tried to get him to treatment.
 
Lux et Veritas said:
After reading @Kristin Esq.'s excellent witness summaries from yesterday's hearing, I've reassessed my stance on EC.

His parents are worse than horrific. Long before the shooting, he started hearing noises, voices, seeing 'demons', he was afraid and asked for help - he was ignored.

They gave him a gun. Hoping he'd do what, exactly?

They spent a whopping 13 minutes in the school counselor's office, viewed his bloody, murderous drawing, his words, his clear cry for help - then refused to deal with him, just ABANDONED him at school to go back to work. At that point, he probably thought he really had nothing left - his own parents certainly proved they didn't care enough about him to immediately take him to a mental health facility. Nothing else left to lose, he started shooting. After 15 YEARS of neglect, he finally got their attention but it was too damn late. Worse, they abandoned him AGAIN after he was arrested and fled to save themselves.

EC is as much a victim in this tragedy as the students / staff at Oxford. His hideous parents are the core catalyst for this entire catastrophe. They should never see the light of day again. EC must get the professional help he so desperately needs and most likely can never be released back into society. Talk about a lost, damaged soul.

JMO
Click to expand...


He is alive, so my literal brain has to force my fingers to type out that he is not as much a victim as those who lost their lives or children or siblings...

But I agree with you 100% (when I slap back hyper literalism). I have always thought that his age made this different...and did not think it was the same as an adult, or even a 17 year old, committing the same horrific crime. Yet the more I learn, the. more my heart just bleeds for Ethan.

This does not mean I think it’s a good idea to set him loose in the mall with his peers. Nor do I think it’s safe to put him in juvie foster care confinement until he’s only 18 or 21.

But this is a tragedy for him, too.

MOO.
 
Ruminations said:
He is alive, so my literal brain has to force my fingers to type out that he is not as much a victim as those who lost their lives or children or siblings...

But I agree with you 100% (when I slap back hyper literalism). I have always thought that his age made this different...and did not think it was the same as an adult, or even a 17 year old, committing the same horrific crime. Yet the more I learn, the. more my heart just bleeds for Ethan.

This does not mean I think it’s a good idea to set him loose in the mall with his peers. Nor do I think it’s safe to put him in juvie foster care confinement until he’s only 18 or 21.

But this is a tragedy for him, too.

MOO.
Click to expand...

You've articulated a lot of what I'm thinking.

Even after he turns into a school shooter, the poor kid still can't get his parents to pay attention to him. Instead, they took off.

I also think Ethan needs to be locked up for a long time, LWOP. But I do have great empathy for him.

I'm very interested in his older half-brother's experience, living in the home. He spoke very briefly in the beginning, maybe in the Daily Mail? He had left because of issues with Jennifer and had only good things to say about Ethan.
 
MrsWatson said:
You've articulated a lot of what I'm thinking.

Even after he turns into a school shooter, the poor kid still can't get his parents to pay attention to him. Instead, they took off.

I also think Ethan needs to be locked up for a long time, LWOP. But I do have great empathy for him.

I'm very interested in his older half-brother's experience, living in the home. He spoke very briefly in the beginning, maybe in the Daily Mail? He had left because of issues with Jennifer and had only good things to say about Ethan.
Click to expand...
Did they live in a vacuum? Any grandparents, uncles and aunts...or friends? I watched the YouTube of the testimony of mom's coworker and she even said they weren't friends! EC was fighting this battle totally alone. SMH
 
Gardenista said:
The lackadaisical tone of whoever it was that left a message for JC about the bullets seemed off to me. I wonder if that same tone was used in the meeting with EC and his parents.
Click to expand...
Yes! Very unconcerned, lighthearted tone AND there was not a request for the parents to call them. It was just an fyi … and call if you have any questions.

This plus the very BRIEF amount of time they were in the school counselor meeting does not quite match with the portrait the prosecution painted in the early press conference IMO.
 
Lillymac said:
Did they live in a vacuum? Any grandparents, uncles and aunts...or friends? I watched the YouTube of the testimony of mom's coworker and she even said they weren't friends! EC was fighting this battle totally alone. SMH
Click to expand...
Nothing....no cousins, not even a mention of kids in the neighborhood, get togethers with neighbors, family gatherings, visits to grandparents. :(
 
Would EC be receiving some sort of mental health treatment (attempt at diagnosis, medication to control voices hallucinations) in jail by now?

I don’t know if these parents will be found legally responsible in anyway for this school shooting but there is a great deal of moral responsibility here. If the texts, phone messages, interactions with the schools showed evidence of parents who’d struggled with a child with mental issues and tried to seek proper help, not leaving him neglected and alone, I don’t think I’d feel that way. This poor child is as big a victim as the children he shot, it’s just that his pain isn’t over. He’ll spend the next 70+/- year reliving what he did, how he got there and what it cost him. I know it’s wrong and wouldn’t help the victims families but I wish,min some ways, that LE had shot him at the scene or he’d shot h8 self. It seems a kinder end.
 
Mominmi said:
This poor child is as big a victim as the children he shot, it’s just that his pain isn’t over. He’ll spend the next 70+/- year reliving what he did, how he got there and what it cost him. I know it’s wrong and wouldn’t help the victims families but I wish,min some ways, that LE had shot him at the scene or he’d shot h8 self. It seems a kinder end.
Click to expand...

From the beginning, I have wondered about EC. His post about the gun and saying people could ask him anything seemed to be an effort to fit in or have interaction with classmates/other people. The texts between him and his mother seem like she is more of a friend than a parent. I wonder how long that had been going on. I was/am a person that has the unpopular opinion of having feelings toward the murderer. In reply to the above quote, I have wondered if EC wanted the police/others to kill him as a type of suicide.

This past week, watching court regarding the parents, it seems there were a lot of things going on in that house. I was surprised about EC talking about ghosts in the house and that the parents were having extramarital relationships at some point. The mother's coworker was very damaging in testimony about the marriage and her going to a bar frequently along with spending a lot of time with her horses. None of these things are criminal but if EC was having visible/noticeable problems then was she just escaping her duties as a parent? Did she leave him to fend for himself, with a mental issue that she knew about?

But most importantly, if EC's parents are found guilty in a future trial regarding his actions of mass murder, then this will set a precedent/affect other cases to come. Prior to finding out this recent information, I was speculating as to how that would be a good or bad thing. But now I wonder that they will be found guilty because of this other crap instead of whether they are guilty of the deaths of the shooting due to their actions/non-actions with helping to make it happen (parenting/non-parenting, the gun - purchasing/access, not taking EC home that day, etc.).
 
An Elaborate Scheme of Concealment?
Kristin Esq. said:
Parents charged in Michigan school shooting face key hearing....Their attorneys insist the Crumbleys didn’t know that a shooting was in the works and didn’t make the gun easy to find at home...
Click to expand...
@Kristin Esq. sbm bbm Thank you so much for your posts covering these hearings. Extraordinary detail.

Re ^ bbm, that was from Feb 7-8 article in WDIV?
From their atty's representation in ct? That day?
Or interview w reporter or other?

Did I miss def atty's explanation of a factual basis for "not easy to find."*

So, so, so sad.

___________________________
* (Sarc alert, sorry could not help myself) :
Parents' elaborate scheme of concealment? Maybe gun sitting on their nightstand? :rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 86 more.
Total: 1,625 (members: 87, guests: 1,538)

Online statistics

Members online
87
Guests online
1,538
Total visitors
1,625
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
605,704
Messages
18,191,033
Members
233,504
Latest member
reneej08
Back
Top