MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[rabidstoat]

Do parents no longer follow their children's social media at all? Is that a thing of the past?

Some kids will make a 'decoy' account and friend their parents and other kids, and make innocent and normal posts.

Then they have a 'real' account where they post all their edgy comments and skimpily clad photos and stuff.

 

[passionflower]

Do we have any updates on the injured? How many are still hospitalized? Praying for all

 

[cujenn81]

since the Oxford shooting even our own area schools (I'm in IL) have had increased threats.

1 middle school and 3 high schools local to me since Monday. Several different teenagers responsible for the threats have been taken into custody. It does not appear to have been a joint or organized effort?! Like all these kids decided independently to phone in a variety of bomb shooting and stabbing threats.

Man times sure are different than I recall as a kid.

I remember this happened a bunch of times in a row when I was in high school. (This was eons ago — back in 1999!) They sent us all home when the first bomb threat was made and LE spent the day searching the school. A second threat was called in the next day, but that time they made us hang out in the parking lot (for hours!) while LE searched the school. A few days later, another call was made with the same response. The threatening calls continued, but the amount of time that LE spent searching the school was reduced with each subsequent call. They eventually stopped calling or the school decided to ignore them. I hope the former is true, although I think students were making those calls because they realized it got them outta class.

 

[JayWill]

Zero tolerance for what? Weapons? Or any behavior infraction?

How about buying weapons for 15 year olds?

 

[happyday]

I just got a safety alert for our local high school. They’ve been investigating a shooting threat at my daughters’ old high school. They found the 14 year old suspect and he doesn’t have anything to do with the school district and doesn’t live in the community and has no access to weapons. He admitted to the hoax and is being charged, and they’ll have big time security for a while at the school. They even called in the Texas Rangers on this—no messing around! This must be happening absolutely everywhere right now!

 

[Cool Cats]

I just got a safety alert for our local high school. They’ve been investigating a shooting threat at my daughters’ old high school. They found the 14 year old suspect and he doesn’t have anything to do with the school district and doesn’t live in the community and has no access to weapons. He admitted to the hoax and is being charged, and they’ll have big time security for a while at the school. They even called in the Texas Rangers on this—no messing around! This must be happening absolutely everywhere right now!

This week, 13 year old was was taken into custody and sent to a youth home. Threatened on Snapchat to shoot up middle school where my kids used to go.

Happened Dec 2nd, 2 days after Ethan shot up his school.

 

[Lillymac]

I just got a safety alert for our local high school. They’ve been investigating a shooting threat at my daughters’ old high school. They found the 14 year old suspect and he doesn’t have anything to do with the school district and doesn’t live in the community and has no access to weapons. He admitted to the hoax and is being charged, and they’ll have big time security for a while at the school. They even called in the Texas Rangers on this—no messing around! This must be happening absolutely everywhere right now!

I'm from Texas and wondered if you could share the name of the school and city. I haven't seen anything and I have a grandson in a high school in east Texas. Thanks

 

[happyday]

I'm from Texas and wondered if you could share the name of the school and city. I haven't seen anything and I have a grandson in a high school in east Texas. Thanks

This was in Boerne in the hill country. We’ve had plenty of threats over the years, but I don’t remember the Texas Rangers ever being called in.

 

[Lillymac]

This was in Boerne in the hill country. We’ve had plenty of threats o
ver the years, but I don’t remember the Texas Rangers ever being called in.

Yes, I love the Hill country and have lots of friends and some family around there. Thanks for the info and response. Seems to be everywhere

Some kids will make a 'decoy' account and friend their parents and other kids, and make innocent and normal posts.

Then they have a 'real' account where they post all their edgy comments and skimpily clad photos and stuff.

Some parents do the same thing! Pretty sad, and we wonder why some kids behave the way they do.

Sorry for the uncleared post to happydays. Disregard.

 

[kaen]

"At Oxford High School, they'll search your backpack if they think you're vaping, but they refused to suspend or search a student who wrote what we now know was reams of homicidal notes and drawings, scenes of classroom slaughter and mania," he said. Mass shooting survivors filing $100M lawsuits against Oxford Schools

This is just outrageous. They search backpacks for vape pens/juice but didn't search this kid or call the resource officer or refuse to let him go back to class. I am not sure if this is just civil because it feels there is criminal negligence here.

In almost any school I know, the use of the school resource officer in these situations is always top of list. Not allowing a student back in the classroom after he/she/they have made threats or expressed concerning behavior is next to the top of the list especially since they gave a caveat that he had to be seen by a professional within 48 hours. This is a kid who had two complaints from teachers about concerning behavior and a non-compliant parent so there should have been no option regarding a bag search and not going back to class.

The administration decision-making here is concerning across the board. I don't see a way that any of the leadership can continue with any confidence. Four children are dead and others are wounded. Families called them with concerns and were dismissed (grant it some of the issues might have been dismissible) so what kind of faith can families have in them.

The whole "we are grieving, too" line is disconcerting. Yes, they are grieving but they are the ones who created the opportunity for this storm to brew. They had the power to do something but didn't follow common protocols or even common sense (IMO).

I wonder when someone will leak their threat protocol. It will be disconcerting if the protocol is inadequate. But, it will be potentially criminal if they had a plan but did not adhere to it. Their actions have not squared with good safety practices from jump so...... I wonder.

 

[Mominmi]

Fieger’s sloppy work on his lawsuit is reprehensible. About what I’d expect from his commercials I’ve seen over the years though. (This is my opinion, no facts to be assumed.)

 

[Doghairrules]

Interesting info on school shootings in this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/12/09/parents-school-shooters-charges-crumbleys/

It may be behind a pay wall. Here are some of the most interesting tidbits:


Since 1999, children have committed at least 175 school shootings, according to a new Washington Post analysis. Among the 114 cases in which the weapon’s source was identified by police, 77 percent were taken from the child’s home or those of relatives or friends. And yet, The Post discovered just five instances when the adult owners of the weapons were criminally punished because they failed to lock them up. Another three cases in which adults were charged, including the one against the Crumbleys, are pending.

Regardless of who’s at fault, research shows that such deadly outcomes are not inevitable. In a report issued earlier this year, the Secret Service’s National Threat Assessment Center reviewed 67 “disrupted plots” targeting schools between 2006 and 2018. Every time, the report said, “tragedy was averted” when others came forward after seeing alarming behavior. In most cases, friends, classmates or other peers spoke up, but in eight instances — or about 1 in 9 — a parent or grandparent noticed and reported something, sometimes after going through a relative’s bedroom or, as O’Connor did, reading a journal.

 

[Arkay]

I remember this happened a bunch of times in a row when I was in high school. (This was eons ago — back in 1999!) They sent us all home when the first bomb threat was made and LE spent the day searching the school. A second threat was called in the next day, but that time they made us hang out in the parking lot (for hours!) while LE searched the school. A few days later, another call was made with the same response. The threatening calls continued, but the amount of time that LE spent searching the school was reduced with each subsequent call. They eventually stopped calling or the school decided to ignore them. I hope the former is true, although I think students were making those calls because they realized it got them outta class.

PRO TIP FOR PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, GUARDIANS:

You should ask the schools that your children attend to give you the location of where your children would be taken in case of a building evacuation.

In my 25 years of teaching there have been quite a few times that a bomb threat or some such was made, and we (like @cujenn81 ) were outside for hours. In the snow, whatever. The police had to search every desk, closet and nook and cranny of the building.
My students were 13 and 14. Problems arose when they needed the bathroom, or were freezing, or they just got antsy and wanted to bolt and go home. ( NYC, many kids are walking distance from home).
On one of these occasions, the principal had us eventually walk down the block to the high school right near our middle school, where we were able to take shelter indoors.

At least here in NYC, there are usually two other school locations where they may take students in case of emergency. If there's a shooter, bomb threat, a fire, there's a nearby location. There's also a further location if there is some biohazard or other threat to the immediate neighborhood.

I soon discovered that very few parents knew where their children were removed to, especially in the days before cell phones. They were frantic, but it turns out that schools in NYC have a prearranged action plan for these situations, and the parents were usually unaware of these locations.

It's likely very different in areas of the U.S. where children mainly are transported on school buses and don't live within a few blocks of the school. And I know people have cell phones now.

BUT it is a very good idea to find out BEFOREHAND if there is a prearranged evacuation site, so you can head there immediately upon hearing any kind of news.

JMO but based on experience. I make sure to know where my grandchildren's schools would send them in an emergency.

 

[Ruminations]

Does anyone know how far the Crumbley's lived from the school? I am stuck on the idea that the school requested that they take their son home and they refused. I believe I read somewhere that they claimed a need to return to work. Why not drop him off at home and then return to work? I find it odd that they would have no problem leaving an 8-9 year old home alone to go drinking but for some reason did not seem willing to have their 15 year old son home alone. Also , after the meeting they did not think to go home and check on the status of the gun that they purchased for their kid four days prior. Even though they seemed to know immediately upon hearing of an active shooter that their son was the perpetrator they certainly knew he was capable of the act.

There would be no point in leaving him home alone. The reason to take him out of school would be to get him help, not drop him off.

If the campus doesn’t lock down, Ethan could have walked back and done the same thing. Or, he could have put off his plans until another day.

I am sorry the parents did not get him help, but, since they did not, the ball was in the school’s court. And they dropped it, IMO.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

MOO, the lawyer. You'd think you'd "know" who you are suing. Really throws everything else about the lawsuit into question if they don't even know the basics.

It throws nothing into question regarding the lawsuit.

I'm going to try to explain this the best that I can.

When a lawyer files an initial lawsuit, they may not know all of the parties involved. This is NORMAL. When you read a complaint, it will say something to the effect "Based on the knowledge that I currently have, at all times relevant, Mr. Moore is the Dean of Students." Meaning, that all lawsuits, as filed, is based on the knowledge they currently have.

Either they will get a letter from opposing counsel, as they did in this case, or during the DISCOVERY process, they will learn more information. From there, they can Amend their complaint to make sure it's correct.

The ONLY reason this seems to be a big deal, is because this case is publicly scrutinized.

Please let me know if you have any questions, but I would give the lawyer the benefit of the doubt as to this one.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Fieger’s sloppy work on his lawsuit is reprehensible. About what I’d expect from his commercials I’ve seen over the years though. (This is my opinion, no facts to be assumed.)

It's not reprehensible, please read above on my explanation about how things word.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

How about buying weapons for 15 year olds?

Not sure what the school can do about that.

 

[Ruminations]

How about buying weapons for 15 year olds?

I’m there with you.

But “zero tolerance” is a well-intentioned policy in schools that has had poor outcomes IMO. (Too lazy to find a citation.)

Zero tolerance for drugs, vaping, weapons, whatever usually means there are swift and severe consequences every time, and the consequences usually involve separating the student from the school, which tends to make matters worse.

IMO zero tolerance appeals to people because it feels like it makes very complex issues simple. But it really only simplifies the response. The problem remains complex.

 

[rob525]

There would be no point in leaving him home alone. The reason to take him out of school would be to get him help, not drop him off.

If the campus doesn’t lock down, Ethan could have walked back and done the same thing. Or, he could have put off his plans until another day.

I am sorry the parents did not get him help, but, since they did not, the ball was in the school’s court. And they dropped it, IMO.

The point was that the parents obviously presented some excuse for not taking him out of school. From what I read it was because they both had to go back to work. The statement had nothing to do with him being home alone etc. although it is also likely that the parents weaved that into the reasoning for not wanting to take the time to remove him from school grounds. He certainly could have walked back to school and had this occurred I would likely not have the gut feeling that the parents were well aware of the potential for this happening. Which is why I was wondering how far away they lived from the school.

 

[rob525]

The school most certainly dropped the ball. But I disagree that the ball was in the schools court at least not completely. If the school calls the parents and they either directly or indirectly deny that their son has access to a fire arm. I imagine at some point the school asked the parents about firearms in the home. And it is unfathomable that the school would have followed the course of action that they did had they known, from the parents, that EC had direct access to a firearm. But, if you have parents that possibly attempted to completely cover for their kid, how much does that affect the decision of the school. Of course they should have firm policies in place but if there are parents sitting looking you in the eye saying "no" to any questions related to a potential threat it tends to go against ones sensibilities that parents would purposely conceal such information.