MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[everybodhi]

The point was that the parents obviously presented some excuse for not taking him out of school. From what I read it was because they both had to go back to work. The statement had nothing to do with him being home alone etc. although it is also likely that the parents weaved that into the reasoning for not wanting to take the time to remove him from school grounds. He certainly could have walked back to school and had this occurred I would likely not have the gut feeling that the parents were well aware of the potential for this happening. Which is why I was wondering how far away they lived from the school.

BBM
“According to a news article in the Oxford Leader last month, Sikora finished a mural at Red Knapps American Grill, a bar just around the corner from the Crumbleys’ house.”


How Teen Gunman’s Parents Ended Up Hiding Out in Local Artist’s Studio

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Younger Oxford students return to school following tragedy (detroitnews.com)

Oxford — As teachers and school counselors bared the cold Friday morning to welcome students back, flags remained half-staffed from Lapeer to Oxford following the tragic shooting at the high school.

The Oxford school district's kindergarteners through eighth-graders returned to classes Friday for a half-day of school after buildings were closed following the Nov. 30 shooting at Oxford High School that killed four students. The high school will not reopen until at least January, according to the district.

Amy Wright, an Oxford Middle School psychologist, wore her blue and gold shirt for Spirit Day and helped direct student dropoff at 7 a.m. She said staff "worked tirelessly over the last week to get ready for today." Hugging students, Wright said she feels humbled...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Review of seized items from artist friend of Crumbleys could take 10 days (detroitnews.com)

Oakland County Sheriff's officials said Thursday a review of items seized from an artist long friendly with the couple charged in the Oxford High School shooting could last more than a week.

Authorities on Monday executed a search warrant at the Troy home of Andrzej Sikora, shortly after he was questioned about James and Jennifer Crumbley.

"We have in our possession (two) cell phones, (two) tablets and one computer which are being forensically examined and could take up to 10 days to complete," the Sheriff's Office said in a statement Thursday.

Sikora "has cooperated with our investigation," the release said.

Other updates were expected "when it is appropriate," the office said...

 

[steeltowngirl]

I’m there with you.

But “zero tolerance” is a well-intentioned policy in schools that has had poor outcomes IMO. (Too lazy to find a citation.)

Zero tolerance for drugs, vaping, weapons, whatever usually means there are swift and severe consequences every time, and the consequences usually involve separating the student from the school, which tends to make matters worse.

IMO zero tolerance appeals to people because it feels like it makes very complex issues simple. But it really only simplifies the response. The problem remains complex.

I’ve attached links to two articles that support your point.

That said, I stand behind my call for a return to zero tolerance when it comes to school safety (weapons, threats).

The problem IS complex. Implementing a simple solution does not fix that. But it doesn’t make matters worse, if the matter at hand is preventing students at school from being gravely injured or murdered. I’m not speaking to matters of educational progress, nor student self-esteem, nor racial disparity.

The goal of the simple fix is only this: Stop the madness. Kids should be safe from being slaughtered by weapons brought to school. jmo

What alternative do you suggest?

https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/zero-tolerance.pdf
Zero-tolerance policies in schools related to higher suspension rates

 

[steeltowngirl]

Many Parents of School Shooters Ignore Warnings. This One Didn’t.

Catherine O’Connor, a retired probation officer who was Joshua’s guardian, showed the journal to her husband, who was equally disturbed. The next day, after O’Connor dropped her grandson off at school, she searched his room and found a semiautomatic rifle in a guitar case. Then she did what many parents of school shooters never do: called the police to report that a child she loved posed a threat to his classmates, his community and himself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/12/09/parents-school-shooters-charges-crumbleys/

 

[LMDlong]

This week, 13 year old was was taken into custody and sent to a youth home. Threatened on Snapchat to shoot up middle school where my kids used to go.

Happened Dec 2nd, 2 days after Ethan shot up his school.

Last week my brother worried about two of his grandchildren whose school went into lock down and yesterday my sister got a text from the school district her daughter who is third grade attends regarding a threat . what is with all these threats .

 

[nisha]

BBM
“According to a news article in the Oxford Leader last month, Sikora finished a mural at Red Knapps American Grill, a bar just around the corner from the Crumbleys’ house.”
View attachment 326032 View attachment 326033

How Teen Gunman’s Parents Ended Up Hiding Out in Local Artist’s Studio

The artist probably is of Polish descent, at least partially. The name Andrzej is a Polish equivalent of Andrew, and Sikora is a popular Polish surname which means a bird called "tit" in English. I am from Poland and I wonder how him and the Crumbleys got in touch. The relationship may have started when he painted this mural.

 

[Sundog]

Can a school district be liable in gun violence in Michigan?

Renalia DuBose, an associate law professor at Western Michigan University Thomas M. Cooley Law School, said the principal should have ordered a search of the suspected shooter when he was sent to the office the morning of the shooting.

“Schools owe students a duty of care,” DuBose said. “And they must behave reasonably in that duty of care.”

DuBose has been a public educator for 30 years. She’s done everything from teaching high school to taking on the role of an assistant superintendent. She said schools have a legal duty to take every precaution necessary -- especially a search -- when faced with a threat from students.

“The United States Supreme Court held in 1985 that school administrators do not need probable cause to search a student,” DuBose said. “The student was brought in. Reasonably, they should have searched that student. They did not do that.”


BBM

 

[LMDlong]

BBM
“According to a news article in the Oxford Leader last month, Sikora finished a mural at Red Knapps American Grill, a bar just around the corner from the Crumbleys’ house.”
View attachment 326032 View attachment 326033

How Teen Gunman’s Parents Ended Up Hiding Out in Local Artist’s Studio

Interesting.

 

[dotr]

The artist probably is of Polish descent, at least partially. The name Andrzej is a Polish equivalent of Andrew, and Sikora is a popular Polish surname which means a bird called "tit" in English. I am from Poland and I wonder how him and the Crumbleys got in touch. The relationship may have started when he painted this mural.

Welcome to Ws @nisha, thanks for chiming in with that tidbit!

 

[Arkay]

I have nothing new to say, except that I'm just freshly boiling over, re-examining this text from the mother.


"Lol I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught"

Just everything about this is so wrong.

“Lol”—this is a lighthearted event, worthy of a chuckle.

“I’m not mad at you”—-hey, no consequences, don’t even worry about it.

“You have to learn not to get caught”—let me teach you how to be evasive.

I blame Ethan, of course, but i just can’t wait for these “parents” to get what they deserve.

 

[happyday]

I have nothing new to say, except that I'm just freshly boiling over, re-examining this text from the mother.


"Lol I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught"

Just everything about this is so wrong.

“Lol”—this is a lighthearted event, worthy of a chuckle.

“I’m not mad at you”—-hey, no consequences, don’t even worry about it.

“You have to learn not to get caught”—let me teach you how to be evasive.

I blame Ethan, of course, but i just can’t wait for these “parents” to get what they deserve.

As soon as I read the mother’s text, I was reminded of “Dexter”. The father, upon realizing his adopted son is a sociopathic killer, gives him a code to live by. The first rule of the code is: Don’t get caught.

It’s just so wrong.

 

[x_files]

It says teacher #1 found the student searching for ammunition on his phone but allowed him to stay in the classroom without disciplining him. Apparently she did inform the counselor but no action was taken.

According to the document, all defendants, (teachers, counselors,and administrators) deliberately withheld and excluded vital information from the school liason officer.

Even after multiple parents called Wolf to complain about the SM threats, he assured parents and students there was no threat. He told them that "assumptions had evolved into exaggerated rumors."

Teacher #2 apparently allowed him to bring the backpack in the classroom even though it was against school policy. She allowed him control of the backpack, unsearched, after the note was discovered.

I've only skimmed through half of it but this is what stands out the most.

So many mistakes were made. They never should have allowed him to stay on school grounds that day.

There is no acceptable reason for not informing the school officer of what was going on in the days before the murder.

One of the worst things the principal could have done was tell students and parents NOT to discuss such SM posts. It discouraged people from coming forward to warn about the threat to the school.

IMO

So many mistakes it almost feels it was intentional. How could so many adults fail?

 

[x_files]

Snipped from the above post, were these social media messages from EC or others? This confuses me, I keep reading about social media threats and am trying to figure out if there's more going on than just EC.

"parents complained to administrators about such social media messages in the weeks before the shooting, but that the superintendent, Tim Throne, and principal, Steven Wolf, said the threats were not credible."

He obviously doesn't know a damn thing about threat assestments. He needs to be fired at least.

 

[x_files]

I was in HS when Columbine happened. I don't remember how long after, but there was a hit list posted in our school of the names of kids to be killed. We all knew who it was because of the hand writing, but the kid never got in trouble because he father was a police officer.

YIKES!!!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I have nothing new to say, except that I'm just freshly boiling over, re-examining this text from the mother.


"Lol I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught"

Just everything about this is so wrong.

“Lol”—this is a lighthearted event, worthy of a chuckle.

“I’m not mad at you”—-hey, no consequences, don’t even worry about it.

“You have to learn not to get caught”—let me teach you how to be evasive.

I blame Ethan, of course, but i just can’t wait for these “parents” to get what they deserve.

What wonderful parents the Crumbleys are - NOT! They taught their son to wield guns, probably never admonished or punished him for bad behavior, wanted him to learn how not to get caught. I can imagine the two of them laughing about the meeting when they left the school building. No doubt school personnel got the middle finger salute on their way to the parking lot. It was all a big joke to them

 

[rob525]

What wonderful parents the Crumbleys are - NOT! They taught their son to wield guns, probably never admonished or punished him for bad behavior, wanted him to learn how not to get caught. I can imagine the two of them laughing about the meeting when they left the school building. No doubt school personnel got the middle finger salute on their way to the parking lot. It was all a big joke to them

Or. They knew exactly what was going to happen. It seems like they did everything that they could do to facilitate it.

 

[x_files]

Or. They knew exactly what was going to happen. It seems like they did everything that they could do to facilitate it.

Starting to wonder if he was groomed to do this?

 

[dotr]

Starting to wonder if he was groomed to do this?

It has the hallmarks of that imo, speculation.

 

[happyday]

Starting to wonder if he was groomed to do this?

It has the hallmarks of that imo, speculation.

I wouldn’t even have considered something so insane before this case. With these two parents though, I feel like anything is possible.