MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[Coppertop15]

Yes, mom just texted me about the kids being in lockdown.

 

[happyday]

Yes, mom just texted me about the kids being in lockdown.

I hope everything is ok! We had a lockdown earlier this week at one local high school and a shooting threat that brought in the Texas Rangers at the other high school. Where is this located?

 

[Coppertop15]

In California. Last week a kid to the south of here was arrested for shooting threats. It just sucks.

 

[mommylicious]

How stupid of them. MOO

I thought so, too. But it sounds like it's a LinkedIn profile of a former employee who was named in the suit despite not being a current employee? So it doesn't really sound like destroying evidence or anything. But maybe there's more?

 

[MoeInVA]

Lockdowns by me today too. East coast. Police came looking for student of interest. Swept school. Then school dismissed early. Before lunch. It’s everywhere.

 

[happyday]

I bet school districts across the country are just counting down the days until winter break!

 

[155etta]

Everything seems to point that way. It seems unfathomable and I can't even begin to think of what a motive on the parents part would be. But it would not be the most insane thing I had ever heard of.

Maybe they wanted to be free of him. If he ended up in prison, their "parenting" job was done. Feels like they were "over" being parents. They just never dreamed that they would end up there too. MOO.

 

[Coppertop15]

Maybe they wanted to be free of him. If he ended up in prison, their "parenting" job was done. Feels like they were "over" being parents. They just never dreamed that they would end up there too. MOO.

That makes me want to puke.

 

[Cool Cats]

That makes me want to puke.

The parents didn't want their kid to shoot up a school. There is no evidence they groomed the kid that way.

They are clueless parents not terrorists.

 

[Lillymac]

I completely agree, but don't places like Wal-Mart and Meijer sell guns? I know they used to, but I haven't lived in the States for a while.

I don't believe they sell pistols. At least not at my local store.

 

[everybodhi]

I thought so, too. But it sounds like it's a LinkedIn profile of a former employee who was named in the suit despite not being a current employee? So it doesn't really sound like destroying evidence or anything. But maybe there's more?

How can the attorneys filing suits for victims know who is employed by the school if it is removed from the school website?
Why would they want hide this information?

Oxford school officials destroying evidence after attack, lawyer says

Attorney Nora Hanna cited several pieces of missing or destroyed information, including one defendant’s LinkedIn profile and a listing of high school administrators from the school website.

Some of the biggest requests are made of the school district, asking it to produce all files on the alleged shooter, video footage made of the suspect's family, any correspondence addressing potential threats and all employment records of all counselors, teachers and staff of the school.

 

[everybodhi]

I don't believe they sell pistols. At least not at my local store.

BBM
What is Walmart doing to guarantee responsible firearm sales?

In 2018, we made the decision to raise the minimum age to purchase firearms and ammunition in our stores to 21 years of age. In years prior, we ended sales of modern sporting rifles, including the AR-15. Most recently, in September 2019, we decided to no longer sell the ammunition that can be used in large capacity magazines on military-style weapons, which we do not sell. We also made a complete exit from handgun sales.

Walmart Statement on Firearms Policy

We take seriously our obligation to be a responsible seller of firearms and go beyond Federal law by requiring customers to pass a background check before purchasing any firearm. The law would allow the sale of a firearm if no response to a background check request has been received within three business days, but our policy prohibits the sale until an approval is given.

We are also removing items from our website resembling assault-style rifles, including nonlethal airsoft guns and toys

 

[Lillymac]

BBM
What is Walmart doing to guarantee responsible firearm sales?

In 2018, we made the decision to raise the minimum age to purchase firearms and ammunition in our stores to 21 years of age. In years prior, we ended sales of modern sporting rifles, including the AR-15. Most recently, in September 2019, we decided to no longer sell the ammunition that can be used in large capacity magazines on military-style weapons, which we do not sell. We also made a complete exit from handgun sales.

Walmart Statement on Firearms Policy

We take seriously our obligation to be a responsible seller of firearms and go beyond Federal law by requiring customers to pass a background check before purchasing any firearm. The law would allow the sale of a firearm if no response to a background check request has been received within three business days, but our policy prohibits the sale until an approval is given.

We are also removing items from our website resembling assault-style rifles, including nonlethal airsoft guns and toys

Thanks. That's what I was remembering. I was there today trying to find a cap gun and all they had in toys were plastic.

 

[borndem]

...

 

[borndem]

Perhaps in some sick, twisted way, Ethan's parents are "proud" of their son for having stood up for himself in light of possible bullying. JMO

That could very well be so.
He may have told his folks that he was bullied, not liked by anyone, even if it were not so, although he very possibly may not have been liked, he may have been laughed-at, etc. His dad may just have told him to stand up for himself and not take it any more, etc.

Also, IMO, he and his family were a bit different from most folks, and Ethan may have felt he was worth nothing to anyone. Teen years are tuff, and without good solid support at home or at school or anywhere, anger and/or despair can grow large.
Again, no excuses, but something made this 15 year old do what he did.

 

[borndem]

This discussion really brought me back to my high school days when one of my dear friends got kicked out of school for going at a guy in shop class with a saw. My friend was so sweet and never violent to my knowledge, but he was very different than other kids in those days. I think he was being teased or bullied. He ended up okay though because he had already found his community, a community of support through his club activity/ extracurricular activity. Which included kids, parents, teachers and other adults. His life went on and he continued to connect with other opportunities despite being expelled/ longterm suspension.

It sounds to me like EC may not have found that community. It worries me that we may have a much higher rate of young folks who have not "found their community" because they have been staying at home. And returning back to life can be a slow process, perhaps especially so for teens who are often uncomfortable in their own skin anyway and still finding themselves. Let's hope schools are investing in more counselors. And metal detectors! (Sheesh that's a pretty big school to still not have a metal detector).

bbm
Agree. I Googled walk-thru metal detectors, and the cost ranges from about $1,700 -- $5,000, with the "average" price of about $2200.00. Schools have a lot of doors, but entry could be controlled, seems to me.
I agree, @MoeInVA, that it is a big school not to have a metal detector. That's a lot of students, and IMO the price is not exorbitant at all. Schools are on a tight budget, yes, but so are lawsuits. And losing a child cannot be measured.
All IMHO.

 

[Ruminations]

I’ve attached links to two articles that support your point.

That said, I stand behind my call for a return to zero tolerance when it comes to school safety (weapons, threats).

The problem IS complex. Implementing a simple solution does not fix that. But it doesn’t make matters worse, if the matter at hand is preventing students at school from being gravely injured or murdered. I’m not speaking to matters of educational progress, nor student self-esteem, nor racial disparity.

The goal of the simple fix is only this: Stop the madness. Kids should be safe from being slaughtered by weapons brought to school. jmo

What alternative do you suggest?

https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/zero-tolerance.pdf
Zero-tolerance policies in schools related to higher suspension rates

<modsnip: Don't try to skirt The Rules>

After that, there has been much discussion about calling in the resource officer, searching the backpack, enforcing the backpack rules if they were not suspended for the pandemic, taking each and every threat seriously, calling an EMT...

The suggestions above actions frankly had better odds of preventing this than sending the shooter home- which would just cause him to want to prove he was serious and could not be stopped. It would just delay the crime- it was not by all appearances an impulse but a plan to relieve tension. Adding tension and humiliating the shooter by thwarting him... could add to his desperation.

Sometimes it is not known who is making a threat right away. In this case, students knew who was making threats. He could have been detained upon entering the school. I would agree with this zero tolerance rule: we find a weapon on you, you don’t get it back.

MOO- and thanks for the citation, and the thoughtful, friendly disagreement.

 

[Happygolucky123]

I didn't want to go there, but given their behaviors, it would not surprise me if Ethan's parents knew exactly what their son might do. JMO

MOO- I wonder if they didn’t plan for him to use the gun at school, but rather in himself? They knew he was having issues, knew he had the gun, and were hoping he’d use it and they would be done with him.
When he was caught, they took off, no interest in helping him (court appointed attorney, though they hired a good one for themselves). I do think on some level they were grooming him, but not necessarily to shoot others.

 

[Cool Cats]

MOO- I wonder if they didn’t plan for him to use the gun at school, but rather in himself? They knew he was having issues, knew he had the gun, and were hoping he’d use it and they would be done with him.
When he was caught, they took off, no interest in helping him (court appointed attorney, though they hired a good one for themselves). I do think on some level they were grooming him, but not necessarily to shoot others.

No. They didn't want their own kid to shoot himself. No evidence of this.
They are clueless parents not evil child murderers.

 

[Ruminations]

I wasn't speaking about the school. IMO, 15 year olds should not even be allowed in gun shops, let alone help their father choose a gun. Are 15 year olds allowed in bars?

I had German student in my home who was allowed to drink beer or wine in restaurants from age 16 in Germany. (It is 18, now, I think. ) it amazed him that he could, at age 19, buy a gun at Walmart, but not a beer with his hamburger in the USA. It also was hard for him to understand why his childhood favorites, hollow chocolate with little toys inside, were considered too dangerous for fragile American children who seemed very susceptible to choking, while there were guns everywhere.