MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[Lux et Veritas]

bbm

Very good point, @MoeInVA --
I wonder if EC had neighborhood friends or school friends whom he would visit or who would visit him at his house? Sleep overs, going to movies, exploring, playing games? Skate-boarding? Sledding? Did his parents let him do this? Did they encourage him to do this?
Nearly all of my classmates and I -- 'way back then -- did that type thing. We got to know our friends' parents and neighborhoods and vice versa. Getting to know one's peers is important. Some of these friendships can last a lifetime. That was how many of us grew up.

Did his parents raise a loner perhaps?

EC - an only child left home alone at age 8 or 9 so his parents could go party (how many years did that go on?!). Ignored. Unloved. Recipe for loneliness, depression, unhappiness, disaster. While I will never excuse or defend his actions, they are easier to understand. And as the trials proceed, we'll hopefully understand a whole lot more. Mass killers never happen in a vacuum. In this case, selfish, neglectful parents - this kid never had a chance.

 

[Lilibet]

Can any Americans imagine what other countries would make of this thread?

As an American, it’s embarrassing to imagine. And it’s infuriating and heartbreaking that this thread is even necessary, that we are casually discussing metal detectors in schools and that it’s all considered pretty normal to take these precautions.

 

[JayWill]

As an American, it’s embarrassing to imagine. And it’s infuriating and heartbreaking that this thread is even necessary, that we are casually discussing metal detectors in schools and that it’s all considered pretty normal to take these precautions.

Yes.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Or. They knew exactly what was going to happen. It seems like they did everything that they could do to facilitate it.

Life in prison for committing a mass school shooting is certainly one way parents could get rid of a kid they don't want. Yeah, a wild theory but these parents certainly don't seem to have jack#### in their defense. JMO

 

[everybodhi]

As an American, it’s embarrassing to imagine. And it’s infuriating and heartbreaking that this thread is even necessary, that we are casually discussing metal detectors in schools and that it’s all considered pretty normal to take these precautions.

Not “normal” but necessary because kids are armed and angry.

 

[everybodhi]

Life in prison for committing a mass school shooting is certainly one way parents could get rid of a kid they don't want. Yeah, a wild theory but these parents certainly don't seem to have jack#### in their defense. JMO

Even Ethan’s defense attorney is distancing him from his own parents.

Attorney for accused Michigan school shooter talks strategy: 'My focus is solely on Ethan'

After several meetings with Crumbley over video and regular communication with prosecutors, Loftin said she's not planning to confer with legal counsel for his parents, who face charges of their own of involuntary manslaughter.

"There are a number of details that haven't been presented and haven't been brought to light. Hopefully, that will come in due time."

 

[dkryder]

article published 12/10/21 in New York Times,

“I just instinctually knew there was just absolutely no way I was not going to prosecute them when I heard all the evidence,” Ms. McDonald said in an interview.

In the Michigan School Shooting, the Prosecutor Asks, What About the Parents?

 

[rob525]

The parents didn't want their kid to shoot up a school. There is no evidence they groomed the kid that way.

They are clueless parents not terrorists.

I hope you are right. IMO, no matter what, they are for from being simple, clueless parents. And, there does seem to be some evidence that they knew, although circumstantial at this point. The truth is we don't know what role they actually played in all of this.

 

[Cool Cats]

Name: CRUMBLEY, ETHAN, ROBERT

Case ID: 21-006611-FY
Court Location: 52-3 ROCHESTER HILLS

Next Hearing: 12/13/2021 1:15 PM - SCHEDULED FOR PROBABLE CAUSE CONFERENCE

CRUMBLEY, JENNIFER, LYNN
12/14/2021 01:15 PM SCHEDULED FOR PROBABLE CAUSE CONFERENCE

CRUMBLEY, JAMES, ROBERT
12/14/2021 01:15 PM SCHEDULED FOR PROBABLE CAUSE CONFERENCE

https://micourt.courts.michigan.gov/CaseSearch/Court/D52-3/Search?searchText=James+Crumbley

 

[rob525]

As soon as I saw the blog post from the mom, I started wondering just how much the parents knew. I'm so glad to see I'm not alone.

I don't want to go too far into the weeds, but I think the whole thing could hinge off beliefs the parents have and current events, let's say.

I find "injustice collectors" to be very apt.

All moo.

I thought of possible parental beliefs as a reason for them enabling their son. The most divisive and volatile issue these days is politics and/or COVID mandates etc. How this would all tie in together, I don't have any idea at this point, just hypothesizing. I also had a thought about money. Could they be looking to cash in on the spotlight and notoriety?

 

[Cool Cats]

I thought of possible parental beliefs as a reason for them enabling their son. The most divisive and volatile issue these days is politics and/or COVID mandates etc. How this would all tie in together, I don't have any idea at this point, just hypothesizing. I also had a thought about money. Could they be looking to cash in on the spotlight and notoriety?

People want to kill them not pay them. Probably will stay in isolation for heir own safety. They wouldn't be safe out of jail. I believe them when they said they fled for their safety, meaning they were getting threats.

Opinion

 

[x_files]

Possible shooter at my niblings' school. I hate how this always flares up after a killing, rather than the other way around.

Copycats. The news covering the school shootings triggers ideas to other potential school shootings, unfortunately.
Mass Killings Inspire Copycats, Study Finds

 

[x_files]

A great case for smaller schools.

That could be part of the problem the HS is too big, the classes are overcrowded troubled kids aren't noticed until way too late.
How can a teacher focus on 50 students per class? Maybe bring back smaller community schools?

 

[x_files]

Not “normal” but necessary because kids are armed and angry.

I notice many Americans are filled with rage. Rage plus easy access to guns is a problem.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I thought so, too. But it sounds like it's a LinkedIn profile of a former employee who was named in the suit despite not being a current employee? So it doesn't really sound like destroying evidence or anything. But maybe there's more?

I don't think they are talking about the former Dean of Students at the high school. Local reports seem to indicate that school administrators might be deleting emails, texts, social media posts, etc. from parents and/or students warning school officials about EC's threats. There were apparently dozens of warnings to school personnel prior to the shooting. In fact, some students stayed home that day because they knew there was trouble brewing. School administrators want to cover up the warnings from parents and students. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't think they are talking about the former Dean of Students at the high school. Local reports seem to indicate that school administrators might be deleting emails, texts, social media posts, etc. from parents and/or students warning school officials about EC's threats. JMO

Too late. I am sure enough have been screen shot to show this:

Parents alerted school officials to threats 2 weeks before Oxford High School rampage, $100M suit claims

"Previous to the November 30, 2021 incident, Ethan Crumbley posted threats of bodily harm, including death, on his social media accounts, warning of violent tendencies and murderous ideology," the suit states.

Included in that, the Franzes say, was a photo of a 9mm Sig Sauer handgun Crumbley posted to his public Instagram feed.

"Throne, Wolf, and other employees and/or agents of Oxford Community School District had knowledge of threats made to the students, Riley and Bella Franz," the filing says.

"At all times relevant, all Defendants willfully misrepresented the dangers presented," the suit says.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

That could be part of the problem the HS is too big, the classes are overcrowded troubled kids aren't noticed until way too late.
How can a teacher focus on 50 students per class? Maybe bring back smaller community schools?

Most high schools in Oakland County have upwards of 1000 students; most average 1200-1300. Class size is generally 25-30 students.

 

[MrsWatson]

Even Ethan’s defense attorney is distancing him from his own parents.

Attorney for accused Michigan school shooter talks strategy: 'My focus is solely on Ethan'

After several meetings with Crumbley over video and regular communication with prosecutors, Loftin said she's not planning to confer with legal counsel for his parents, who face charges of their own of involuntary manslaughter.

"There are a number of details that haven't been presented and haven't been brought to light. Hopefully, that will come in due time."

After reading that article, I wonder if he will plead guilty?

His attorney strikes me as very thorough and I'm glad she is advocating solely for Ethan. I don't think a verdict or the sentence are very much in question, but hopefully she will make it impossible to claim ineffective counsel ten years from now.

MOO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

After reading that article, I wonder if he will plead guilty?

His attorney strikes me as very thorough and I'm glad she is advocating solely for Ethan. I don't think a verdict or the sentence are very much in question, but hopefully she will make it impossible to claim ineffective counsel ten years from now.

MOO

I feel certain that Ethan's attorney will request a psych eval at his hearing next week. Ethan might not be competent to stand trial as an adult for the murders of four students. I'm not trying to minimize EC's culpability in the shooting, but the more I learn about his parents and the neglect that Ethan suffered in his home, the less I'm inclined to hold him entirely responsible for the massacre. JMO

 

[crussell821]

Possible shooter at my niblings' school. I hate how this always flares up after a killing, rather than the other way around.

There was a threat (fortunately unsubstantiated) at my kids school last week as well.
He’s 4.
I’m terrified for these kids.