MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[MimosaMornings]

bbm
Agree. I Googled walk-thru metal detectors, and the cost ranges from about $1,700 -- $5,000, with the "average" price of about $2200.00. Schools have a lot of doors, but entry could be controlled, seems to me.
I agree, @MoeInVA, that it is a big school not to have a metal detector. That's a lot of students, and IMO the price is not exorbitant at all. Schools are on a tight budget, yes, but so are lawsuits. And losing a child cannot be measured.
All IMHO.

I think it’s more of how to get all the students through the one (maybe two) entrances in the morning before classes start? You would need a staggered class schedule.

Plus who is going to work the entrance with the metal detector? Hire someone? Heck, we can’t get a bond referendum passed for anything school related. Rotate teachers? Are we going to pay them more to do this? I doubt it.

Can you imagine the kick back from some of the voters who would think installing metal detectors would infringe on their children’s freedom? You’ve seen the result on trying to mandate students wearing a simple mask during a pandemic....
JMO

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Parents alerted school officials to threats 2 weeks before Oxford High School rampage, $100M suit claims - CNN

... Jeffrey and Brandi Franz filed suit Thursday in the US District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan on behalf of their daughters, Riley, 17, and Bella, 14. Those named are the Oxford Community School district, Superintendent Timothy Throne, Oxford High Principal Steven Wolf and Dean of Students Ryan Moore, two school counselors, two teachers and a staff member. ... They further allege that the school teachers and counselors did not report Crumbley's behavior to the school safety liaison officer and that Wolf, Moore, both counselors, one teacher and a staff member excluded the officer in meetings with Crumbley and his parents. ... On November 16 -- two weeks before the school shooting -- "multiple concerned parents provided communications" to Wolf "with concerns about threats to students made on social media," the lawsuit alleges, ... "That same day, November 16, 2021, Wolf emailed parents indicating, 'I know I'm being redundant here, but there is absolutely no threat at the HS ... large assumptions were made from a few social media posts, then the assumptions evolved into exaggerated rumors,'" court documents say. ...

Holy crap. What the actual F were school authorities thinking?! It's like they stuck their heads into sand and pretended everything was fine - can't happen here, right? Their collective denial was deadly. Absolutely no question - OSD is going to $$$$$bleed for its heinous, willful non-actions.

JMO

 

[everybodhi]

I think it’s more of how to get all the students through the one (maybe two) entrances in the morning before classes start? You would need a staggered class schedule.

Plus who is going to work the entrance with the metal detector? Hire someone? Heck, we can’t get a bond referendum passed for anything school related. Rotate teachers? Are we going to pay them more to do this? I doubt it.

Can you imagine the kick back from some of the voters who would think installing metal detectors would infringe on their children’s freedom? You’ve seen the result on trying to mandate students wearing a simple mask during a pandemic....
JMO

In my children’s high school in Camden, Maine, resource officers man the metal detector, everyone is required to enter through the front door. As long as the alarm doesn’t go off, it’s pretty quick. Everyone doesn’t pour through the door at once in the morning anyway, detectors or not. It’s easier than an airport.
After a certain time, the door is locked and the resource officer has to buzz you in.
All other doors are locked from outside entrance and have cameras and alarms if opened from the inside.
My youngest graduated high school over a decade ago, metal detectors in schools are nothing new.

 

[borndem]

agreed. now that they are subject to the civil suits their counsel will advise against discussing anything to do with that day or events leading up to it, including safety measures that were or weren't taken, or measures that will be now heightened.

We are about to see the circling of the wagons and radio silence will descend.

You're on the money, @tlcya. No meeting, no way.
Every defense atty in the country would advise the same -- no meeting, so nothing goes on record...
It's a shame, but what good things would the school officials have to say so soon after this tragedy? An apology and a sharing of grief would certainly be heartfelt and honest, but it would not be good "on the record," IMO. Or something like, "We're gonna make changes immediately. Things will be different." Admitting that it is obvious that there were things to fix , uh, no. What else is left to say, if those things are omitted? Answering questions, um, no. Nope, no meeting... IMO.

 

[MimosaMornings]

In my children’s high school in Camden, Maine, resource officers man the metal detector, everyone is required to enter through the front door. As long as the alarm doesn’t go off, it’s pretty quick. Everyone doesn’t pour through the door at once in the morning anyway, detectors or not. It’s easier than an airport.
After a certain time, the door is locked and the resource officer has to buzz you in.
All other doors are locked from outside entrance and have cameras and alarms if opened from the inside.
My youngest graduated high school over a decade ago, metal detectors in schools are nothing new.

I’m just trying to imagine 3,500 to 4,700 students trying to get through one entrance, do they line up outside?

None of the schools have metal detectors here.
They might use a wand at a high school football game on occasion.

 

[everybodhi]

I’m just trying to imagine 3,500 to 4,700 students trying to get through one entrance, do they line up outside?

None of the schools have metal detectors here.
They might use a wand at a high school football game on occasion.

Camden Hills high school is a regional school serving 5 towns but still only has around 700 students.
Bigger schools need more than one detector, more students = more money
Some high schools in NYC have over 7000 students. Over 91,000 students go through metal detectors every morning in NYC high schools.

Top 100 Largest High Schools in America

While the average high school size is around 1100-1200 students, to make this list you have to have well over 3000 students at your school to make the cut

Metal Detectors in New York City High Schools

ETA: 712 weapons were found by metal detectors in [NYC] schools during the 2013-2014 school year. If every high school student currently at a scanning school was scanned each school day, that would amount to 15,964,020 scans over a school year — or one dangerous item found for about every 23,034 scans.

 

[borndem]

In my children’s high school in Camden, Maine, resource officers man the metal detector, everyone is required to enter through the front door. As long as the alarm doesn’t go off, it’s pretty quick. Everyone doesn’t pour through the door at once in the morning anyway, detectors or not. It’s easier than an airport.
After a certain time, the door is locked and the resource officer has to buzz you in.
All other doors are locked from outside entrance and have cameras and alarms if opened from the inside.
My youngest graduated high school over a decade ago, metal detectors in schools are nothing new.

Thanks for that encouraging report, @everybodhi! I figured with only one walk-thru metal detector, there would be a big back-up of students & staff, but it doesn't sound like that would be the case. Very encouraging!
All, all, all schools must have them -- now.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Camden Hills high school is a regional school serving 5 towns but still only has around 700 students.
Bigger schools need more than one detector, more students = more money
Some high schools in NYC have over 7000 students. Over 91,000 students go through metal detectors every morning in NYC high schools.

Top 100 Largest High Schools in America

While the average high school size is around 1100-1200 students, to make this list you have to have well over 3000 students at your school to make the cut

Metal Detectors in New York City High Schools
View attachment 326088
ETA: 712 weapons were found by metal detectors in [NYC] schools during the 2013-2014 school year. If every high school student currently at a scanning school was scanned each school day, that would amount to 15,964,020 scans over a school year — or one dangerous item found for about every 23,034 scans.

It’s interesting to see the breakdown at the various boroughs too.
“62% of Bronx high school students go through metal detectors.
20% of Queens high school students go through metal detectors.
0% of Staten Island high school students go through metal detectors.“

 

[everybodhi]

It’s interesting to see the breakdown at the various boroughs too.
“62% of Bronx high school students go through metal detectors.
20% of Queens high school students go through metal detectors.
0% of Staten Island high school students go through metal detectors.“

OT but if you click on the link you will see how those numbers correlate with race and also English as a second language.

 

[TGIRecovered]

If Oxford HS had a metal dector and the gun was detected, would this principal have called parents instead of police? He seems all about keeping things on the down low. (MOO)

Something tells me that the sheriff isn't surprised that school admin kept important information from LE.

I'll bet it's a pattern, not a fluke.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

December 9, Protocols for our Safe Reopening

* law enforcement and private security on-site
* internet filter software
* staff trauma-response training
* therapy dogs
* professionally trained trauma specialists
* no backpacks allowed

How are any of these after-the-fact measures going to PREVENT the next mass school shooting?! They're just tired, ever more depressing salves. How is a ban on backpacks for a week or two gonna stop anything? LOL It's WINTER and a gun can be hidden easily in jackets and coats.

<modsnip>

 

[everybodhi]

December 9, Protocols for our Safe Reopening

* law enforcement and private security on-site
* internet filter software
* staff trauma-response training
* therapy dogs
* professionally trained trauma specialists
* no backpacks allowed

How are any of these after-the-fact measures going to PREVENT the next mass school shooting?! They're just tired, ever more depressing salves. How is a ban on backpacks for a week or two gonna stop anything? LOL It's WINTER and a gun can be hidden easily in jackets and coats.

<modsnip>

Hard to believe they are just now filtering internet access, I mean they do this in libraries all over the country, even for adults.

From your link:

• Gaggle software has been activated to help manage student online safety on school-provided accounts. This software manages all outgoing content from students and staff, and immediately flags any concerning images, links to websites and shared items from Google Drive for our technology safety and security team. The software allows the district to work with law enforcement to ensure any potential online emergencies are immediately addressed.

 

[JayWill]

I’m just trying to imagine 3,500 to 4,700 students trying to get through one entrance, do they line up outside?

None of the schools have metal detectors here.
They might use a wand at a high school football game on occasion.

A great case for smaller schools.

 

[JayWill]

December 9, Protocols for our Safe Reopening

* law enforcement and private security on-site
* internet filter software
* staff trauma-response training
* therapy dogs
* professionally trained trauma specialists
* no backpacks allowed

How are any of these after-the-fact measures going to PREVENT the next mass school shooting?! They're just tired, ever more depressing salves. How is a ban on backpacks for a week or two gonna stop anything? LOL It's WINTER and a gun can be hidden easily in jackets and coats.

Apparently, America's got tons of band-aids but refuses to invest in aggressive preventative measures on multiple fronts. So, like clockwork, the next school shooting cycle will begin. America is like a deadly, non-stop roulette wheel and I'm so sick of it. Whose town will that little ball suddenly land in next?

BBM. Of course none of that will, but there is an elephant in the room that no one wants to address.

 

[TGIRecovered]

Hard to believe they are just now filtering internet access, I mean they do this in libraries all over the country, even for adults.

From your link:

• Gaggle software has been activated to help manage student online safety on school-provided accounts. This software manages all outgoing content from students and staff, and immediately flags any concerning images, links to websites and shared items from Google Drive for our technology safety and security team. The software allows the district to work with law enforcement to ensure any potential online emergencies are immediately addressed.

Agreed. Software designed to flag threatening posts like the ones Ethan made is great, but you have to make sure that certain school officials don't thwart the system.
I hope the new software notifies LE directly so they can assess the situation and protect all of the students!

 

[kaen]

PRO TIP FOR PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, GUARDIANS:

You should ask the schools that your children attend to give you the location of where your children would be taken in case of a building evacuation.

In my 25 years of teaching there have been quite a few times that a bomb threat or some such was made, and we (like @cujenn81 ) were outside for hours. In the snow, whatever. The police had to search every desk, closet and nook and cranny of the building.
My students were 13 and 14. Problems arose when they needed the bathroom, or were freezing, or they just got antsy and wanted to bolt and go home. ( NYC, many kids are walking distance from home).
On one of these occasions, the principal had us eventually walk down the block to the high school right near our middle school, where we were able to take shelter indoors.

At least here in NYC, there are usually two other school locations where they may take students in case of emergency. If there's a shooter, bomb threat, a fire, there's a nearby location. There's also a further location if there is some biohazard or other threat to the immediate neighborhood.

I soon discovered that very few parents knew where their children were removed to, especially in the days before cell phones. They were frantic, but it turns out that schools in NYC have a prearranged action plan for these situations, and the parents were usually unaware of these locations.

It's likely very different in areas of the U.S. where children mainly are transported on school buses and don't live within a few blocks of the school. And I know people have cell phones now.

BUT it is a very good idea to find out BEFOREHAND if there is a prearranged evacuation site, so you can head there immediately upon hearing any kind of news.

JMO but based on experience. I make sure to know where my grandchildren's schools would send them in an emergency.

Our schools will not disclose where you will take the children in these events. They don't want you to know ahead so that a bad person can come to the secure location and terrorize there. Post-Sandy Hook the new trend is that you give limited information and use an electronic alert system. Once the perimeter is set at the secondary site and the LE officials deem it safe you disclose. In an event, all actors are bad actors until they are cleared--- students, parents, grandparents, the community. When you don't know the scope of what someone has planned you have to hold tight to information.

 

[kaen]

December 9, Protocols for our Safe Reopening

* law enforcement and private security on-site
* internet filter software
* staff trauma-response training
* therapy dogs
* professionally trained trauma specialists
* no backpacks allowed

How are any of these after-the-fact measures going to PREVENT the next mass school shooting?! They're just tired, ever more depressing salves. How is a ban on backpacks for a week or two gonna stop anything? LOL It's WINTER and a gun can be hidden easily in jackets and coats.

<modsnip>

Backpack bans are for student and teacher and building leader comfort. LE is able to secure a building easier with no backpacks. Rumors or poor taste jokes can't take root if kids don't have a way to conceal a weapon, including a knife.

 

[TGIRecovered]

Our schools will not disclose where you will take the children in these events. They don't want you to know ahead so that a bad person can come to the secure location and terrorize there. Post-Sandy Hook the new trend is that you give limited information and use an electronic alert system. Once the perimeter is set at the secondary site and the LE officials deem it safe you disclose. In an event, all actors are bad actors until they are cleared--- students, parents, grandparents, the community. When you don't know the scope of what someone has planned you have to hold tight to information.

Excellent point! Unfortunately, the threat most often comes from within. A student, deranged employee, or hothead parent. It only takes one.

 

[kaen]

Camden Hills high school is a regional school serving 5 towns but still only has around 700 students.
Bigger schools need more than one detector, more students = more money
Some high schools in NYC have over 7000 students. Over 91,000 students go through metal detectors every morning in NYC high schools.

Top 100 Largest High Schools in America

While the average high school size is around 1100-1200 students, to make this list you have to have well over 3000 students at your school to make the cut

Metal Detectors in New York City High Schools
View attachment 326088
ETA: 712 weapons were found by metal detectors in [NYC] schools during the 2013-2014 school year. If every high school student currently at a scanning school was scanned each school day, that would amount to 15,964,020 scans over a school year — or one dangerous item found for about every 23,034 scans.

Having worked in a large school with metal detectors I can say that there are very rarely back-ups as the students and teachers know what to do AND, actually do it. When you work in a school where there are thousands of students, numerous gangs and lots of opportunities for conflicts, it is not so bad knowing that the chance of a weapon being pulled on students or the adults.

 

[everybodhi]

Backpack bans are for student and teacher and building leader comfort. LE is able to secure a building easier with no backpacks. Rumors or poor taste jokes can't take root if kids don't have a way to conceal a weapon, including a knife.

It’s not quite a ban..
It’s more like backpacks are not allowed now, while no one is at the school

from the link:

• Finally, no backpacks will be allowed in any buildings for the remainder of this week and all of next week. We will communicate more on this topic before the return from holiday break.