MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[BetteDavisEyes]

This is why I support zero tolerance. Without it, schools are forced to make decisions about threats.

I read this report a couple of days ago. Is zero-tolerance discipline coming back to schools after the Oxford shooting? (detroitnews.com)

The tragedy at Oxford High School and the staggering rise in threats against Michigan schools that followed have triggered a return to a zero-tolerance approach in student discipline and a hard-line response to student misbehavior by legal authorities.

Suspensions and expulsions from Michigan schools and the arrest of adolescents for making false school threats spiked after the Nov. 30 deadly rampage at the Oakland County school that killed four students.

Children as young as 12 are being criminally charged in connection with making school threats. Wayne County has 42 cases against juveniles. One Metro Detroit school district suspended 13 students in a two-week period in response to threats at their schools.

While pushing troubled students out of school may seem like a solution to preventing another tragedy, legal experts and student advocates warn it could do more harm than good — to both students and the community — and trigger legal ramifications for school districts if state laws aren't followed...

 

[A2FMNST]

Sad this is happening in my back yard…

You can read the bond document at the bottom of the article…

1. House payment was in arrears by months ($700/mo) to the tune of $11,000
2. Parents sold their horses. When they did own them, they neglected him to focus on their horses, affairs (mom)
3. Mom and dad hired lawyers for them but NOT their son. Alleged statement by the mom was something to the effect of her sons life is over, so she is the one who needs a lawyer.

‘They will flee if they get the opportunity’: Prosecutor argues bond should not be lowered for parents of accused Oxford school shooter

 

[A2FMNST]

I read this report a couple of days ago. Is zero-tolerance discipline coming back to schools after the Oxford shooting? (detroitnews.com)

The tragedy at Oxford High School and the staggering rise in threats against Michigan schools that followed have triggered a return to a zero-tolerance approach in student discipline and a hard-line response to student misbehavior by legal authorities.

Suspensions and expulsions from Michigan schools and the arrest of adolescents for making false school threats spiked after the Nov. 30 deadly rampage at the Oakland County school that killed four students.

Children as young as 12 are being criminally charged in connection with making school threats. Wayne County has 42 cases against juveniles. One Metro Detroit school district suspended 13 students in a two-week period in response to threats at their schools.

While pushing troubled students out of school may seem like a solution to preventing another tragedy, legal experts and student advocates warn it could do more harm than good — to both students and the community — and trigger legal ramifications for school districts if state laws aren't followed...

@BetteDavisEyes Howdy neighbor! Glad to “see” you!

He needed psychiatric treatment, urgently, and was crying out for attention from at least his mother. The school failed to take him seriously with deadly consequences. His parents failed him most egregiously for neglecting him (his mental health) and arming a knowingly depressed young man. As parents we need to talk to our children about their mental health and take action if need be.

Here is information for anyone in crisis…

Metro Detroit mental health resource guide: When, where and how to find help

 

[borndem]

This may be too stern, but I don't think his parents cared enuff about him to even see that he needed help. He and his dad were gun-buddies, and him mom supported him in that way, too. That one thing may have been about the only thing that the family shared.
If his parents were willing to go out boozing and leave him at home by himself when he was 8- or 9-years-old, then how much could they have really cared. (And just like our grandmothers would say, "The house could have burned down, and they wouldn't have even known it." And that absolutely true. No wonder that little boy would go to the neighbor's house -- some noise or whatever may have scared him & he was all by himself. He had to know, sooner or later, that they really didn't give a flip about him. Good way to foster love and support for your young child.

No excuses for what he did, none, but this kid, like so many others, had 2 strikes against him at a very young age. Rage, loneliness, probably little or no parental affection, praise or positive support. Other than, IMO, firearms. We see it everywhere, every day, and the results are so very often sad, sad stories for more than just one family.
And I think he may be so broken that the only way for him is life in prison.

Here ends my rant...

 

[Bishop Black]

Oxford prosecutor releases alleged school shooter's drawings in case against parents

The office of Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald released a troubling drawing said to have been created by school shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley the day of the alleged attack at Oxford High School that claimed the lives of four students.

One image, submitted as an exhibit in a Thursday court filing in a criminal case against Crumbley's parents, appears to show drawings of a gun and a bullet on a math worksheet.
"The thoughts won't stop," it says under the gun, followed by, "Help me." Above the bullet it says, "Blood everywhere." Further down on the page are other handwritten words and phrases including, "My life is useless."

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Sad this is happening in my back yard…

You can read the bond document at the bottom of the article…

1. House payment was in arrears by months ($700/mo) to the tune of $11,000
2. Parents sold their horses. When they did own them, they neglected him to focus on their horses, affairs (mom)
3. Mom and dad hired lawyers for them but NOT their son. Alleged statement by the mom was something to the effect of her sons life is over, so she is the one who needs a lawyer.

‘They will flee if they get the opportunity’: Prosecutor argues bond should not be lowered for parents of accused Oxford school shooter

Ethan's parents always put themselves and their interests above those of their son. I absolutely agree that these two should not have bond lowered or be let out of jail prior to trial. They've already shown that they are not trustworthy and would find a way to disable their ankle monitors and get as far out of dodge as possible. Their respective lawyers can argue that they were going to turn themselves in, but I don't believe this for a nano-second. They were hiding out in an art studio that is very close to the Detroit River - about a mile across to Canada. No doubt they were trying to figure out how to escape local officials. JMO

 

[minneolo]

I find these parents despicable, generally. The recent court filings describe (IMO) a “can’t tell me what to do” / “I do what I want” attitude amongst the Crumbley parents which led to disastrous consequences for the victims of Ethan’s actions.

Here’s my big question. I imagine that even if you’re a selfish, neglectful parent who runs in gun-culture circles and don’t much like authority (e.g., school administrators, etc) - it’s hard to imagine the possibility your kid will become a school shooter.

But, given it seemed pretty clear (IMO) that Ethan was displaying signs of worsening depression and perhaps other issues - wouldn’t you worry about the possibility of self-harm? Isn’t this enough reason to limit access to weapons while unsupervised? IMO, if I had a child displaying these issues I would limit access to weapons period, for fear of self-harm.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I find these parents despicable, generally. The recent court filings describe (IMO) a “can’t tell me what to do” / “I do what I want” attitude amongst the Crumbley parents which led to disastrous consequences for the victims of Ethan’s actions.

Here’s my big question. I imagine that even if you’re a selfish, neglectful parent who runs in gun-culture circles and don’t much like authority (e.g., school administrators, etc) - it’s hard to imagine the possibility your kid will become a school shooter.

But, given it seemed pretty clear (IMO) that Ethan was displaying signs of worsening depression and perhaps other issues - wouldn’t you worry about the possibility of self-harm? Isn’t this enough reason to limit access to weapons while unsupervised? IMO, if I had a child displaying these issues I would limit access to weapons period, for fear of self-harm.

Your post got me thinking. These parents care only for themselves IMO.
Why would parents buy a disturbed teenager a weapon and provide easy access to the weapon? I imagine he was a difficult child to raise and I can't help but think perhaps they wanted him to have access to it. Maybe not to kill his classmates (although that would provide them with a way out of parenting him) but perhaps he had threatened suicide in the past and they were providing a means to that end.

 

[Ruminations]

There is a difference (in theory) in the approach with juveniles--a thought that they are young and can be rehabilitated.

Trying him as a juvenile doesn't mean that we are saying he didn't know right from wrong. The juvenile court system isn't saying they don't know they are committing crimes.

Ethan's consequences will be Ethan's consequences.

His consequences may impact how the victims feel and how they are able to make peace. Yet, there are many victims and each one of them might gain more peace from different consequences; I would be shocked if there were consensus on what should happen to Ethan.



Whatever the consequences are, they will do little to prevent something similar from happening again. Locally, there are issues BettyDavis Eyes has helped us see clearly.

Nationally, there are issues with our school funding and special education. All schools play gate keeper as much as possible to avoid giving services. They don't want a reputation for providing them, lest they create an influx of students because their desperate parents move into the district to get them. For example, there was a time when the State of NJ had had an excellent reputation for serving autistic spectrum children, and parents upended their lives to move and get help for their kids. Districts, funded primarily with local property taxes, found they had to increase their budgets, angering constituents. Some SPED stuff is federally reimbursed, but districts find it not worth the unreimbursed effort to seek it. The cheapest approach is to keep kids out of SPED and try to attract residents who will provide such services privately to their children.

In addition there are other glaring national issues, for which the proposed "secure your gun" law was introduced--- a drop in the ocean, but at least it's a drop.

There is nothing that can be done to Ethan --- death penalty, LWOP, juvenile detention until 21 then 20 years probation--- no option does anything to make his own school district, with its own arrogance problems, or all districts, with their funding issues, improve their responses to a child like Ethan.

I am not excusing him or his parents, but this child is 15. And he apparently has a history of classic symptoms like cruelty to animals. It's obvious his parents were not addressing them privately, so he needed different school services and a different kind of fire arm availability. We really can't punish Ethan in any way, and expect that it will have any impact on the behavior of the next Ethan, IMO.

MOO. MOO MOO MOO MOO

 

[Lilibet]

Your post got me thinking. These parents care only for themselves IMO.
Why would parents buy a disturbed teenager a weapon and provide easy access to the weapon? I imagine he was a difficult child to raise and I can't help but think perhaps they wanted him to have access to it. Maybe not to kill his classmates (although that would provide them with a way out of parenting him) but perhaps he had threatened suicide in the past and they were providing a means to that end.

The same thought occurred to me and it’s so awful that parents making suicide deliberately possible for their disturbed child even entered my mind…but with these particular parents it did.

 

[LaborDayRN]

The same thought occurred to me and it’s so awful that parents making suicide deliberately possible for their disturbed child even entered my mind…but with these particular parents it did.

I agree. Add to that the fact that they felt the need to hire private attorneys for themselves and none for their son speaks loud and clear.

 

[kaen]

Your post got me thinking. These parents care only for themselves IMO.
Why would parents buy a disturbed teenager a weapon and provide easy access to the weapon? I imagine he was a difficult child to raise and I can't help but think perhaps they wanted him to have access to it. Maybe not to kill his classmates (although that would provide them with a way out of parenting him) but perhaps he had threatened suicide in the past and they were providing a means to that end.

Yes all the way on this. Then I extrapolate the drawings within a school context----the drawings as disclosed are beyond concerning, coupled with searching for ammo online at school. This kid asked responsible people outside of his parents for help through his actions and these folks (who in theory are not drug addicted, marginal or unable to see beyond their own desires) failed him to the same degree. He deserved more from his school administrators. His teachers knew enough to say ask the admins to act as well.

This kid is disturbed--- yet still responsible for his actions. The adults in his life have proved incapable of caring for others as have the school administrative team. IMHO.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

I’m a bit unsettled about JenC’s alleged affair being brought into the muck. I suppose it goes to proving neglect and indifference to EC’s depression and homicidal tendencies. However, I hope this doesn’t go the route that Justin Ross Harris’s trial did in the death of his son Cooper. In that case, the sexting became the highlight, and his defense team appealed his conviction based on “prejudicial testimony.”

I am not defending JenC. If she was partying, grooming horses, making explicit videos with her boyfriend, she wasn’t paying attention to her child - and that does support evidence of neglect. She clearly ignored signs, was in denial or just willful ignorance of EC’s state of mind. But does it prove intent?

It’s a slippery slope. Many people have affairs, but most don’t have children who go on to become school annihilators.

I believe, in part at least, it as brought up to show that there will be an eventual conflict with having the same attorneys.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

At least his school was requiring him to receive psychological help within 48 hours. (But obviously it should have been required the same day.) His parents' plan was apparently to seek help for him never.
I wonder why it didn't occur to them that they could also be targeted by him honestly.
JMO.

 

[Wild Rose]

As a society, we do not require parenting classes. But we have some kind of safety net of trained professionals in law enforcement and in public education.

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree. Add to that the fact that they felt the need to hire private attorneys for themselves and none for their son speaks loud and clear.

I don't think they could afford to hire attorneys so probably pro bono, law firm gets the publicity.

The prosecution mentioned they were distracted by financial concerns and also said:

The Crumbleys “will flee if they get the opportunity,” the Oakland County prosecutor's office said, noting that the couple was behind in mortgage payments and put their house up for sale.

The Crumbleys also mentioned financial problems on SM in an open letter to Trump.

“I have to pay for a Tutor, why? Because I can’t figure out 4th grade math. I used to be good at math. I can’t afford a Tutor, in fact I sacrifice car insurance to make sure my son gets a good education and hopefully succeeds in life.”

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

'100 percent false': Prosecutor debunks social media posts that Ethan Crumbley is incompetent for trial (fox2detroit.com)

SOUTHFIELD, Mich. (FOX 2) - The Oakland County Prosecutor is trying to stop misinformation regarding the competency of accused Oxford High School shooter Ethan Crumbley and says social media posts circulating aren't true.

Posts on social media started circulating on Monday, Dec. 27, that Crumbley was deemed incompetent for trial. FOX 2's Randy Wimbley spoke with someone from the prosecutor's office who said those posts are "100 percent false".

Crumbley isn't due back in court for another ten days - on January 7 - for a probable cause hearing. His original hearing on Dec. 13 was delayed due to both the prosecution and defense not able to process all the evidence in the shooting....

 

[borndem]

He was competent enuff to go to high school. He was competent enuff to handle a firearm. He could read & write & have a little job. Not buying what the defense or whoever is selling.

And how fortunate for him and his parents -- in trouble with mortgage, probably not a lot of money for good food... Now the taxpayers will be paying for them to have a warm place to live, three free meals a day, free showers, free clothing, free medical care if they need it. Hoping they are appreciative. No more bills to pay...
Hoping they all will be under such care for a good while, especially hoping their son will be under such care for the rest of his life. Grrrr.

 

[cujenn81]

I have two thoughts:

1. When were the worrysome pictures and phrases crossed out?
2. The fact that he did this on school work paper would make me thing that it wasn't for a video game - I would expect something like that in a notebook or something. How could any teacher or counselor believe this was for a video game? Also, which version did they see, the scratched out one or the original?

Right?! It’s beyond obvious to me that the additions and scratched out objects were done in a feeble attempt to make the drawings seem like no big deal. It's my understanding that his teacher took a picture of the original drawing with her iPhone and then he made the changes before his parents showed up. I just assumed the counselors and whoever else was included in the meeting with his parents had access to the original and the edited version. But maybe they didn’t think to compare the image on the iPhone with the physical drawing?

Depicted in Original Drawing

• a gun (scratched out in revision)
• the words “the thoughts won’t stop HELP ME” (HELP ME is scratched out in revision)
• Laughing w/ Tears Emoji
• the words “Blood Everywhere” (scratched out in revision)
• Bullet
• the words “My life is useless” (scratched out in revision)
• the words “The world is dead” (scratched out in revision)
• a man bleeding (scratched out in revision)

WORDS ADDED to Original Drawing

• RMX 808
• video game this is
• harmless act
• I love my life so much!!!!
• we’re all friends here
• OHS ROCKS!

 

[woods]

Ethan Crumbley’s defense attorney, Paulette Michel Loftin, did a short interview with Fox News: Scant to no contact between Michigan school shooting suspect, parents, attorney says | Fox News