GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #4

[BetteDavisEyes]

O/T - Related.

Bouchard announces scholarship fund for Oxford High students

A $24,000 memorial scholarship fund has been created for students who were enrolled at Oxford High School during the 2021 shooting.

www.detroitnews.com

A memorial scholarship fund for students who were enrolled at Oxford High School the day of the 2021 attack was announced on Tuesday by Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard.

The scholarship to attend Oakland Community College was made possible by the Oakland County Deputy Sheriff's Association/Family Benevolent Fund, Bouchard said.

Fund members raised more than $24,000 through the sale of Oxford Strong pins to support the scholarship program. Five scholarships will be awarded in April at Oxford High School during an awards ceremony. Students must graduate from Oxford High School and can apply through OCC...

 

[Megnut]

Oxford school shooter's mom said her 'biggest fear was that he was gonna turn the gun on himself,' prosecutors say | CNN

Prosecutors in Michigan disclosed more evidence in recent court filings they say shows the mother of Oxford High School shooter Ethan Crumbley knew about his unhealthy mental state when the parents bought him a gun last November.

www.cnn.com

I have no words.

JMO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Oxford school shooter's mom said her 'biggest fear was that he was gonna turn the gun on himself,' prosecutors say | CNN

Prosecutors in Michigan disclosed more evidence in recent court filings they say shows the mother of Oxford High School shooter Ethan Crumbley knew about his unhealthy mental state when the parents bought him a gun last November.

edition.cnn.com

“You know my biggest fear was that he was gonna turn the gun on himself,” Jennifer Crumbley, his mother, said in the back of the police car after the shooting, according to one filing

I wonder when she worried about this. Before even purchasing the gun, after purchasing it, or did the possibility only occur to her until after she realized he brought it to school?

Only she knows the answer, but if you think about all three possibilities, none of the three make sense to me anyway.

 

[MrsWatson]

If Jennifer Crumbley's biggest fear was Ethan using the gun on himself, why wasn't the gun taken out of the house and stored elsewhere? All guns in the home, for that matter.

Seems pretty simple.

moo

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If Jennifer Crumbley's biggest fear was Ethan using the gun on himself, why wasn't the gun taken out of the house and stored elsewhere? All guns in the home, for that matter.

Seems pretty simple.

moo

James and Jennifer Crumbley's attorneys claimed that the parents weren't trained to recognize symptoms of mental health issues in their son. Jennifer is now saying that her biggest fear was that Ethan would turn the gun on himself This suggests to me, at least, that Jennifer was aware that Ethan experienced emotional lability and might be prone to self-harm. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

James and Jennifer Crumbley's attorneys claimed that the parents weren't trained to recognize symptoms of mental health issues in their son. Jennifer is now saying that her biggest fear was that Ethan would turn the gun on himself This suggests to me, at least, that Jennifer was aware that Ethan experienced emotional lability and might be prone to self-harm. JMO

Everything I read screams out that the parents knew something wasn't right with Ethan. Ethan even asked them for counseling and said he saw things in the house. Ghosts or demons or something. Dad tells him to "suck it up" and gives him a pill to take.

Plus not locking up the gun, Ethan asking for a gun even paying for it, mom laughing at him looking up ammunition and telling him not to get caught, not responding to the school's phone call. The parents saw a gun and bullet Ethan had drawn with the words "the thoughts won't stop help me" "blood evrywhere" but yet didn't think to see if he had his unlocked unsecured gun with him.

My opinion is the parents can't win their Case, way too much evidence against them. I am only mentioning some of the evidence. They need attorneys to negotiate a plea deal if the attorneys can't get the manslaughter charges dropped. I still don't think technically the parents meet the MI manslaughter definition you posted.

Parents of high school mass shooter Ethan Crumbley seek lower bail

James and Jennifer Crumbley were arrested in a friend's art studio after an hours-long manhunt that began when the couple failed to appear for a scheduled arraignment.

abc7chicago.com

Crumbley admitted in court that he asked his father to buy him a specific gun. The teen confirmed he gave his father money for the gun and that the weapon wasn't kept in a locked safe.

Days before the shooting, a teacher allegedly saw Crumbley researching ammunition in class, prosecutors said. School officials contacted his parents, but they didn't respond, according to prosecutors. His mother, Jennifer Crumbley, texted her son, writing, "lol, I'm not mad at you, you have to learn not to get caught," according to prosecutors.

Hours before the shooting, according to prosecutors, a teacher saw a note on Ethan Crumbley's desk that was "a drawing of a semi-automatic handgun pointing at the words, 'The thoughts won't stop, help me.'" In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words, "Blood everywhere."

Crumbley's parents were called to the school to discuss the note, according to prosecutors. The parents told school officials that they would put their their son in counseling but did not take him home.

 

[Kingsley]

If Jennifer Crumbley's biggest fear was Ethan using the gun on himself, why wasn't the gun taken out of the house and stored elsewhere? All guns in the home, for that matter.

Seems pretty simple.

moo

She didn't really care that much. Period.
Families are missing their kids this Christmas/Channukah and knowing that they'll never be together again because she just didn't care.
And her own kid is locked away.
(I know I'm preaching to the choir)
I don't know what the right charges are for her, but I really believe that had she actually tried to parent, that none of this would've happened.
I think it is analogous to someone starving a breed of dog known for aggressiveness and then letting it loose among small children. Bad results are inevitable. We rightly hold dog owner's responsible in those situations. And sadly put the dog down/lock the boy up because he is likely irredeemable.

 

[WingsOverTX]

She didn't really care that much. Period.
Families are missing their kids this Christmas/Channukah and knowing that they'll never be together again because she just didn't care.
And her own kid is locked away.
(I know I'm preaching to the choir)
I don't know what the right charges are for her, but I really believe that had she actually tried to parent, that none of this would've happened.
I think it is analogous to someone starving a breed of dog known for aggressiveness and then letting it loose among small children. Bad results are inevitable. We rightly hold dog owner's responsible in those situations. And sadly put the dog down/lock the boy up because he is likely irredeemable.

I don't think Ethan is irredeemable but I think his parents are.

I think Ethan being held in solitary in an adult jail in a room where the lights are on 24/7 is cruel, especially for someone with mental health issues. I wonder where & in what environment he will serve his sentence? His crimes are horrible & his plea of guilt the right thing.

A neglected child becomes a mass murderer before he reaches age 18 with obvious red flags & no appropriate interventions.

These parents have been outside the norm of "good enough" for too long. They are culpable in the deaths of these kids & the ongoing suffering of all survivors.

Involuntary manslaughter? Yes.

Not taking Ethan out of school for immediate counseling that morning was their final error in judgment after 15 years of putting themselves first.

I don't want to see parents convicted for their children's crimes as a rule but I don't think that is what we are looking at here.

I see them as a proximate cause of the deaths of four. And for that they must pay.

MOO

 

[Marysmith]

I don't think Ethan is irredeemable but I think his parents are.

I think Ethan being held in solitary in an adult jail in a room where the lights are on 24/7 is cruel, especially for someone with mental health issues. I wonder where & in what environment he will serve his sentence? His crimes are horrible & his plea of guilt the right thing.

A neglected child becomes a mass murderer before he reaches age 18 with obvious red flags & no appropriate interventions.

These parents have been outside the norm of "good enough" for too long. They are culpable in the deaths of these kids & the ongoing suffering of all survivors.

Involuntary manslaughter? Yes.

Not taking Ethan out of school for immediate counseling that morning was their final error in judgment after 15 years of putting themselves first.

I don't want to see parents convicted for their children's crimes as a rule but I don't think that is what we are looking at here.

I see them as a proximate cause of the deaths of four. And for that they must pay.

MOO

I agree with you.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't think Ethan is irredeemable but I think his parents are.

I think Ethan being held in solitary in an adult jail in a room where the lights are on 24/7 is cruel, especially for someone with mental health issues. I wonder where & in what environment he will serve his sentence? His crimes are horrible & his plea of guilt the right thing.

A neglected child becomes a mass murderer before he reaches age 18 with obvious red flags & no appropriate interventions.

These parents have been outside the norm of "good enough" for too long. They are culpable in the deaths of these kids & the ongoing suffering of all survivors.

Involuntary manslaughter? Yes.

Not taking Ethan out of school for immediate counseling that morning was their final error in judgment after 15 years of putting themselves first.

I don't want to see parents convicted for their children's crimes as a rule but I don't think that is what we are looking at here.

I see them as a proximate cause of the deaths of four. And for that they must pay.

MOO

When you say proximate cause:

(especially of the cause of something) closest in relationship; immediate:
"that storm was the proximate cause of damage to it"

I immediately think of the parents BUYING AND NOT SECURING a loaded gun for their son.

The parent's buying a gun for their obviously disturbed son was a proximate cause to Ethan shooting up the school.

They don't leave the lights in his room on 24/7, just the lights in the hall. He isn't in official solitary per se, just a regular cell away from general population. So technically isolating him from all the other inmates does put him in a solitary confinement situation.

What is interesting is that in jail he can't be around any adults but in the prison system he will be able to be just another inmate mixed in with the adults.

He will be housed at a high classification level, in MI it is levels 1 through 5, 5 being maximum security.

Second Chances: Juveniles Serving Life Without Parole In Michigan Prisons | American Civil Liberties Union

In particular, Michigan allows a child of any age to be tried as an adult, and excludes seventeen-year olds from juvenile treatment altogether.

These children are then subject to adult punishment, incarcerated in adult prisons, and may be sentenced to life without parole.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oxford High, district officials seek to dismiss shooting lawsuits

Attorneys for victims and survivors of the deadly school shooting say the Oxford school district's efforts to claim immunity will fail in court.

www.detroitnews.com

A lawyer for Oxford High School and district staff asked a federal judge to dismiss civil lawsuits filed in connection with one of the nation's deadliest campus shootings, claiming officials were not fully responsible and have qualified immunity shielding them from liability.

"Plaintiffs have not established that any defendant knew of the specific risk of harm facing plaintiffs — that (suspect Ethan Crumbley) had a gun and would shoot students in the school," attorney Timothy Mullins wrote in the 84-page document filed Thursday in U.S. District Court.

The motion focuses on arguments raised in lawsuits filed by the families of victims and survivors in the Nov. 30, 2021, shooting that left four students dead and wounded six others as well as a teacher.

Ethan Crumbley pleaded guilty in October to all 24 criminal charges, including terrorism causing death and first-degree murder, which carry up to life in prison. His parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, face involuntary manslaughter charges...

 

[borndem]

I don't think Ethan is irredeemable but I think his parents are.

I think Ethan being held in solitary in an adult jail in a room where the lights are on 24/7 is cruel, especially for someone with mental health issues. I wonder where & in what environment he will serve his sentence? His crimes are horrible & his plea of guilt the right thing.

A neglected child becomes a mass murderer before he reaches age 18 with obvious red flags & no appropriate interventions.

These parents have been outside the norm of "good enough" for too long. They are culpable in the deaths of these kids & the ongoing suffering of all survivors.

Involuntary manslaughter? Yes.

Not taking Ethan out of school for immediate counseling that morning was their final error in judgment after 15 years of putting themselves first.

I don't want to see parents convicted for their children's crimes as a rule but I don't think that is what we are looking at here.

I see them as a proximate cause of the deaths of four. And for that they must pay.

MOO

Good post, @WingsOverTX.
I get the impression that his parents saw him as a PITA even from an early age, and they either didn't have or didn't take time to ever really parent him. By the time it was almost too late -- the parental conference at school -- they didn't even take him home that day and speak with him.
Did they even think about finding a good professional to help Ethan and perhaps themselves?

And soon enuff, it was indeed too late.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

James and Jennifer Crumbley's attorneys claimed that the parents weren't trained to recognize symptoms of mental health issues in their son. Jennifer is now saying that her biggest fear was that Ethan would turn the gun on himself This suggests to me, at least, that Jennifer was aware that Ethan experienced emotional lability and might be prone to self-harm. JMO

I know I'm a few days late to comment, but why buy the gun if you were afraid that he would turn it on himself? Or if that fear came after, why not take it away? Why not alert someone? Why brush off what the school said? And as stated above, it's probably because they didn't care. It's so hard for me to fathom any of this... MOO

 

[WingsOverTX]

I know I'm a few days late to comment, but why buy the gun if you were afraid that he would turn it on himself? Or if that fear came after, why not take it away? Why not alert someone? Why brush off what the school said? And as stated above, it's probably because they didn't care. It's so hard for me to fathom any of this... MOO

I don't think EC's mother thought he would hurt himself. I think she was begging him not to hurt others because that could potentially affect her.

Ethan was neglected emotionally & psychologically in critical ways from a very young age, as reported by a neighbor he would turn to when left alone for long periods IIRC around age 5. She expressed concerns but said they ignored her. I wonder what she thinks now? I wish a reporter would find her & get her on the record now. Who knows? She might be a witness for the prosecution should this go to trial.

Why was he neglected? We don't know. We may never know.

We do know it continued into his teen years, as his mother ignored his direct pleas for help based on fears he texted her about.

Think about the defense of these parents. Their attorneys seem to believe defending them by lying about facts in evidence (their clear attempt to flee) will be successful.

I think we have now arrived at the point of judgment. Will the justice system do its job is all I wonder about now.

MOO

 

[Kingsley]

I don't think Ethan is irredeemable but I think his parents are.

I think Ethan being held in solitary in an adult jail in a room where the lights are on 24/7 is cruel, especially for someone with mental health issues. I wonder where & in what environment he will serve his sentence? His crimes are horrible & his plea of guilt the right thing.

A neglected child becomes a mass murderer before he reaches age 18 with obvious red flags & no appropriate interventions.

These parents have been outside the norm of "good enough" for too long. They are culpable in the deaths of these kids & the ongoing suffering of all survivors.

Involuntary manslaughter? Yes.

Not taking Ethan out of school for immediate counseling that morning was their final error in judgment after 15 years of putting themselves first.

I don't want to see parents convicted for their children's crimes as a rule but I don't think that is what we are looking at here.

I see them as a proximate cause of the deaths of four. And for that they must pay.

MOO

I truly hope you are right about Ethan. The circumstances leading to the mass shooting really bother me.
I too hope the parents pay, but legally the charges have to be right. If nothing else, it needs to be a wake-up call to other highly negligent parents that if they can’t be there for their kids out of love then at least be there because of possible outcomes.

 

[rabidstoat]

While DH and I are likely too old (early 70s) to be summoned for jury duty in the future, we reside in Oakland County and have both served on juries previously.

My 94-year-old granddad got called to jury duty last month in Georgia!!!

My mom called in for him and explained that he is very hard to transport anywhere and is hard of hearing and has a hard time staying up and seated for 10 hours at a stretch.

They agreed he could be excused. Heh.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Attorneys for Oxford victims ask for more time to depose former, current superintendent

Attorney Jeffrey Stewart wrote in a motion to extend discovery that attorneys have taken 14 depositions, but several critical depositions remain.

www.detroitnews.com

The attorney for several Oxford High School families who are suing the district for gross negligence in relation to a deadly school shooting in 2021 have asked an Oakland County judge for more time to take depositions from several more people, including the former and current Oxford Community Schools superintendents.

The families of Tate Myre, Justin Shilling, Keegan Gregory, Sophia and Grace Kempen and Ashlynne Sutton are suing the district. Tate, 16; Justin, 17; Madisyn Baldwin, 17; and Hana St. Juliana, 14, were shot and killed by then-15-year-old Ethan Crumbley on Nov. 30, 2021. Six students and a teacher were wounded.

Attorney Jeffrey Stewart wrote in a motion to extend discovery that attorneys have taken 14 depositions and exchanged written discovery, but several critical depositions remain, including those of former superintendent Timothy Throne and Throne's successor, Kenneth Weaver, who was the deputy superintendent at the time of the shooting...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oxford shooter once again ordered to stay in jail as sentencing looms

Yet another hearing was held Thursday morning to confirm the placement of the convicted Oxford High School shooter at the Oakland County Jail while he awaits sentencing for dozens of felony crimes.

www.clickondetroit.com

PONTIAC, Mich. – The convicted Oxford High School shooter is set to appear in court Thursday for yet another hearing to confirm his placement at the Oakland County Jail while he awaits sentencing for dozens of felony crimes.

Each month, Ethan Crumbley, 16, must appear in court for a hearing in which the judge decides whether to continue to lodge him at the Oakland County Jail instead of a juvenile facility. The shooter’s attorney previously requested that he be moved to a juvenile detention center because he is a minor, but an Oakland County judge denied that request last March and has since continued to keep the shooter in jail.

Still, the judge’s decision to keep Crumbley at the Oakland County Jail must be revisited every 30 days. These hearings will continue until Crumbley is sentenced for the 24 felonies that he pleaded guilty to in October 2022, including first-degree murder and terrorism charges...

 

[Cool Cats]

Police: 6-year-old shoots teacher in Virginia classroom

Experts said a school shooting involving a 6-year-old is extremely rare, although not unheard of, while Virginia law limits the ways in which a child that age can be punished for such a crime. No students were injured in the shooting at Richneck Elementary School, police said. “We did not have...

news.yahoo.com

This outrage drives home the point of how parents or legal guardians need to be held accountable when the
minor student in their care gets ahold of a gun bringing it to school.

Prosecuting the Crumbley parents will set a legal precedent if they are found guilty.

No students were injured in the shooting at Richneck Elementary School, police said. The teacher — a woman in her 30s — suffered life-threatening injuries. Her condition had improved somewhat by late afternoon, Newport News Police Chief Steve Drew said.

“We did not have a situation where someone was going around the school shooting,” Drew told reporters, later adding that the gunshot was not an accident.

Drew said the student and teacher had known in each other in a classroom setting.

He said the boy had a handgun in the classroom, and investigators were trying to figure out where he obtained it. The police chief did not provide further details about the shooting, the altercation or what happened inside the school.

 

[ilovewings]

Police: 6-year-old shoots teacher in Virginia classroom

Experts said a school shooting involving a 6-year-old is extremely rare, although not unheard of, while Virginia law limits the ways in which a child that age can be punished for such a crime. No students were injured in the shooting at Richneck Elementary School, police said. “We did not have...

news.yahoo.com

This outrage drives home the point of how parents or legal guardians need to be held accountable when the
minor student in their care gets ahold of a gun bringing it to school.

Prosecuting the Crumbley parents will set a legal precedent if they are found guilty.

No students were injured in the shooting at Richneck Elementary School, police said. The teacher — a woman in her 30s — suffered life-threatening injuries. Her condition had improved somewhat by late afternoon, Newport News Police Chief Steve Drew said.

“We did not have a situation where someone was going around the school shooting,” Drew told reporters, later adding that the gunshot was not an accident.

Drew said the student and teacher had known in each other in a classroom setting.

He said the boy had a handgun in the classroom, and investigators were trying to figure out where he obtained it. The police chief did not provide further details about the shooting, the altercation or what happened inside the school.

When I read this I felt sick- just horrible- a 6 year old wannabe killer- she is critical
so how did he get the gun-- These parents have to be held to account for this