Found Deceased MI - Dr. Teleka Patrick, 30, Kalamazoo, 5 Dec 2013 - #14

[lstric]

Maybe there are people who should come to Marvin Sapp and apologize for accusing him falsely concerning Teleka's disappearance.

I have never expected Mr. Sapp to come to Teleka's family and speak with them. He was a victim of Teleka when she stalked him, and has never even had a relationship with her. Since when does a victim of stalking come to the family of the stalker? Shouldn't that be the other way around? Maybe someone should be coming to him instead and apologize for falsely accusing him.

It is obvious Carlin has tried his very best to include Marvin Sapp in Teleka's disappearance and he DOES represent her family, so MS speaking with anyone in that family just isn't going to happen nor should it, imo.

What angers me is that Carlin,, who represents this family, thinks he is much smarter than all the law agencies who actually investigated this tragic case. He totally dismissed the clear and concise words of LE when they said that Marvin Sapp is nothing other than a victim of stalking by TP. And then he wonders why MS refused to talk with him. Is he serious? Really? He cant figure out why MS refuses to talk to a man who has been hell bent on having him involved in something he had no involvement in?

My anger is not directed at you concernedmother but at how all of this was handled by Carlin.

spot on

 

[Loudmouth]

I never read any posts on here in which TP's tweets were ridiculed or used to paint her in negative light. What I saw was concerned strangers genuinely scouring those tweets for something...anything that would give us a clue about where she was.

I'm proud of how sensitive and respectful the WS have been in this case. And I'm proud of the work we all did. People actually did their own research, poured over maps and videos on their own time. We really wanted to bring her home safe. Read over these posts and see all the work that people did on this case. You will see the beauty of the human heart.

 

[Magdalyn]

Maybe there are people who should come to Marvin Sapp and apologize for accusing him falsely concerning Teleka's disappearance.

I have never expected Mr. Sapp to come to Teleka's family and speak with them. He was a victim of Teleka when she stalked him, and has never even had a relationship with her. Since when does a victim of stalking come to the family of the stalker? Shouldn't that be the other way around? Maybe someone should be coming to him instead and apologize for falsely accusing him.

It is obvious Carlin has tried his very best to include Marvin Sapp in Teleka's disappearance and he DOES represent her family, so MS speaking with anyone in that family just isn't going to happen nor should it, imo.

What angers me is that Carlin,, who represents this family, thinks he is much smarter than all the law agencies who actually investigated this tragic case. He totally dismissed the clear and concise words of LE when they said that Marvin Sapp is nothing other than a victim of stalking by TP. And then he wonders why MS refused to talk with him. Is he serious? Really? He cant figure out why MS refuses to talk to a man who has been hell bent on having him involved in something he had no involvement in?

My anger is not directed at you concernedmother but at how all of this was handled by Carlin.

BBM: YES, YES, a thousand times YES.

MS has been proved to be (By LE working with FBI no less) nothing more than an innocent victim.

So he was victimized by TP.

Then he was publicly victimized multiple times by Carlin. He will likely continue to be victimized by Carlin, as long as TPS family is paying him.

Nothing LE has told them or shown them has convinced the family TP's very obvious mental break led her to a tragic accidental death.

The tweets are out there, they refuse to see. Her videos are out there, they refuse to see.

TP's ex-husband has all along stated she was ill while married to him and her delusions and refusal to get diagnosed and treated led to their divorce.

Still can't see it.

MS speaking to them will do nothing, except further encourage them to believe what they choose to believe.

MS deserves peace and several apologies, really, and IMO, zero acknowledgements to Carlin and TP's parents' groundless, baseless, ugly beliefs should be given.

Same rules as apply when you're being stalked. Do not acknowledge. If the harassment and public slander continues, involve legal proceedings.

 

[knacker]

I never read any posts on here in which TP's tweets were ridiculed or used to paint her in negative light. What I saw was concerned strangers genuinely scouring those tweets for something...anything that would give us a clue about where she was.

I'm proud of how sensitive and respectful the WS have been in this case. And I'm proud of the work we all did. People actually did their own research, poured over maps and videos on their own time. We really wanted to bring her home safe. Read over these posts and see all the work that people did on this case. You will see the beauty of the human heart.

Thanks@Loudmouth! Folk think WS is about gossiping concerning missing persons. In the same manner that there are ignorant folk in our society that hold on to ignorant views concerning mental illness, many are ignorant about the role this site plays. Whenever someone posted info. from sites such as scandalmedia stating info. such as MS was arrested or suspected, blah blah it was quickly dispelled. This site fulfills the role of assisting to find missing persons. I echo your words, it was simply searching any info. on the net to get the slightest hint of where she was. Sadly, enough, most here predicted she would be found once the winter defrosted, somewhere close by. We were hoping that she had gotten a ride. That being said, curiosity builds for this second autopsy results. It's not necessary to bash Carlin. The family calls for a second autopsy and he's merely doing his job. Lift the family up in prayer.

 

[knacker]

A significant "leftover" seems to stand out, is James Davis--the last person TP spoke to in her text messages or phone, claims TP showed him messages she was receiving from MS. He said, either that or someone was playing a trick on her. Maybe that's what Carlin and family are pursuing. In any event, LE should if they have not already done so, proven these alleged messages were not from him!

 

[Magdalyn]

I feel Carlin is the one who suggested a second autopsy be done. He just doesn't want to let go of this family and the short fame it has given him. He doesn't want to be proven flat wrong about his stupid allegations either that he has thrown out there since day one of signing on. It will show he is not a good PI after all and was barking up the wrong tree all along.
I have no problem with having a second autopsy if it was done by a reputable forensic pathologist , Imo, the results will be in line with the state MEs opinion who has no dog in this fight.

So if they need a second opinion showing that it was an accidental drowning, then so be it.

It is just prolonging the inevitable for Carlin and he knows it. Once the second autopsy is done then how can he continue to hook the family for more funds? It is only delaying the family discharging him and once everything comes back it will be over for Carlin for good concerning TPs case.

I believe his motivations are more mercenary. IMO, He would like to keep getting paid, and keep his name, and the name of his agency, in the media. JMO.

 

[Roselvr]

Honestly; I'm surprised he's still working for them

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I don't really want to REALLY cause a vitriolic reaction here by saying this , but I'm gonna say this anyway. And, it's not really my opinion, but just another way of looking at this Carlin thing, just in fairness to the man. I am an advocate for people everyday. When you are an advocate, sometimes you are espousing your client's position even when you don't agree with it. You feel some sympathy for them and you want to help even when you don't agree with them. When you don't agree with it, you either get off the case, or you continue to help them through the process and attempt to walk them through the steps until they can see what you see. It could be that Carlin suggested a second autopsy to assist them in getting beyond denial and get on with the grieving process. If you recall, when TP was found, there appeared to be a distancing of Carlin by the sister. He may have told them an opinion they didn't want to hear but agreed to help them one step further to see if it would help them see what the rest of us do see. And, I don't know the guy, for all we know he's doing this pro bono. Or, he could be just a total creep to be doing this, but just as we try to analyze cases by looking at the facts and not making assumptions, we should not assume on this issue either without knowing these facts. It's just not fair. Not any more fair than to blame MS for things without facts.

We are all entitled to our opinions here and I don't think we should malign MS or Carlin. There are just not enough facts for either activity.

As to TP's innermost thoughts becoming public, there were many of us here that felt bad in the beginning and posted that we were uncomfortable about it. But we all continued on in the hope that following them would lead to a living, breathing Teleka who would go on to do great things for the world because, through her tweets, we saw that in her. There was not one person here that was digging into them out of salaciousness. Now, we are all hoping that her tweets will be her legacy and that she can still do great things for the world through them. There is nothing salacious about that hope either. That hope is our expression of nothing but respect and empathy for Dr. Patrick and for others with mental health issues (as I prefer to call it).

It's time for everyone to grieve Dr. Patrick, and I call her Dr. With the utmost respect because she earned it in life and in her legacy, and to pray for her eternal peace that she sought so desparately.

My prayers go out to her family. If they are in denial; as parent of a child with a mental health diagnosis, I understand that. It was hard enough for me to get through that part, I can't imagine trying to get through it under such tragic circumstances. As a parent, you think that YOU know your child better than anyone else. Once you get through the denial, or as part of the process of getting through the denial, you come to find that you never really did know your child. It is part of the process to accept that. I pray they come to accept that and that the facts they seek help them to do that. Denial is in itself a part of the grieving process.

Finally, my prayers go out to MS, his family, Teleka's friends, and Mr. Carlin.

And, God Bless the loving, compassionate people here at WS!

Psalm 23. GOD BLESS YOU DR. PATRICK

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe his motivations are more mercenary. IMO, He would like to keep getting paid, and keep his name, and the name of his agency, in the media. JMO.

I'm not sure about 'mercenary' but I sure do think his motive has always been about his own 'monetary' gain and notoriety.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't really want to REALLY cause a vitriolic reaction here by saying this , but I'm gonna say this anyway. And, it's not really my opinion, but just another way of looking at this Carlin thing, just in fairness to the man. I am an advocate for people everyday. When you are an advocate, sometimes you are espousing your client's position even when you don't agree with it. You feel some sympathy for them and you want to help even when you don't agree with them. When you don't agree with it, you either get off the case, or you continue to help them through the process and attempt to walk them through the steps until they can see what you see. It could be that Carlin suggested a second autopsy to assist them in getting beyond denial and get on with the grieving process. If you recall, when TP was found, there appeared to be a distancing of Carlin by the sister. He may have told them an opinion they didn't want to hear but agreed to help them one step further to see if it would help them see what the rest of us do see. And, I don't know the guy, for all we know he's doing this pro bono. Or, he could be just a total creep to be doing this, but just as we try to analyze cases by looking at the facts and not making assumptions, we should not assume on this issue either without knowing these facts. It's just not fair. Not any more fair than to blame MS for things without facts.

We are all entitled to our opinions here and I don't think we should malign MS or Carlin. There are just not enough facts for either activity.

As to TP's innermost thoughts becoming public, there were many of us here that felt bad in the beginning and posted that we were uncomfortable about it. But we all continued on in the hope that following them would lead to a living, breathing Teleka who would go on to do great things for the world because, through her tweets, we saw that in her. There was not one person here that was digging into them out of salaciousness. Now, we are all hoping that her tweets will be her legacy and that she can still do great things for the world through them. There is nothing salacious about that hope either. That hope is our expression of nothing but respect and empathy for Dr. Patrick and for others with mental health issues (as I prefer to call it).

It's time for everyone to grieve Dr. Patrick, and I call her Dr. With the utmost respect because she earned it in life and in her legacy, and to pray for her eternal peace that she sought so desparately.

My prayers go out to her family. If they are in denial; as parent of a child with a mental health diagnosis, I understand that. It was hard enough for me to get through that part, I can't imagine trying to get through it under such tragic circumstances. As a parent, you think that YOU know your child better than anyone else. Once you get through the denial, or as part of the process of getting through the denial, you come to find that you never really did know your child. It is part of the process to accept that. I pray they come to accept that and that the facts they seek help them to do that. Denial is in itself a part of the grieving process.

Finally, my prayers go out to MS, his family, Teleka's friends, and Mr. Carlin.

And, God Bless the loving, compassionate people here at WS!

Psalm 23. GOD BLESS YOU DR. PATRICK

A very thoughtful and excellent post.

However I do disagree respectfully on one part of your post.

There is a vast difference in the unfounded accusations hurled at Pastor Sapp who has never spoken publicly about this case from day one but has always fully cooperated with law enforcement.

But that cant be said for PI Carlin, and, yes, he has been judged but on the actual words he has said throughout this case, Hurtful accusatory wordage which were also unfounded, and he had absolutely no supporting facts to even make them. Yet it did not stop him even though LE made it perfectly clear that Pastor Sapp was not involved.

If PI Carlin lead the family on to believe that MS was involved, without any proof, then shame on him. Accusatory words can never be taken back. If he did this just so he wouldn't be kicked off the case then shame on him again. That is putting himself above being truthful to the family that hired him.

So there is a vast difference in MS and PI Carlin.

IMO

 

[Owutatangledweb]

One more thing and then I am going to stay away for the weekend and just grieve for Dr. Patrick. For those of you wishing to further your education about mental health and read more from the perspective of a doctor who was actually diagnosed, I suggest a book by Dr. Kay Redfield called "An Unquiet Mind" , best I ever read..... until Dr. Patrick. I left it lying around for my daughter, who once thought her dreams would never be realized. One day, the book finally disappeared and I found it in her room. She's now in the last year of her psychology degree. Who better to help people than one who really understands them? I still pray every day that as my daughter struggles with medication changes, she finishes her program. I am one of the lucky ones, she is always medication-compliant, even when it inhibits her brilliant abilities.

God bless ALL who struggle with theses issues every day.

 

[JaimeSommers]

One more thing and then I am going to stay away for the weekend and just grieve for Dr. Patrick. For those of you wishing to further your education about mental health and read more from the perspective of a doctor who was actually diagnosed, I suggest a book by Dr. Kay Redfield called "An Unquiet Mind" , best I ever read..... until Dr. Patrick. I left it lying around for my daughter, who once thought her dreams would never be realized. One day, the book finally disappeared and I found it in her room. She's now in the last year of her psychology degree. Who better to help people than one who really understands them? I still pray every day that as my daughter struggles with medication changes, she finishes her program. I am one of the lucky ones, she is always medication-compliant, even when it inhibits her brilliant abilities.

God bless ALL who struggle with theses issues every day.

BBM. Agree. Fantastic book.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Respectfully snipped. ...

"There is a vast difference in the unfounded accusations hurled at Pastor Sapp who has never spoken publicly about this case from day one but has always fully cooperated with law enforcement."

TRUE, I didn't look at it from that aspect, and frankly did not closely follow all of Carlin's statements.

 

[La Louve]

This is all so sad. Even in death, it seems Teleka cannot get the peace she deserved.

ETA It makes me sad for her that she still cannot get the acknowledgement from her family of who she really was. I hope and pray at some point they can find acceptance of the totality of their beautiful child.

 

[JaimeSommers]

I still feel bad. Had she been found the next day or day after that, a lot of her personal business would have probably not become widely known or discussed. Her family and some friends and maybe a few at work or so would have known about or learned about her mental condition but not thousands and hundreds of thousands. The thing about mental illness is there is no predicting actions if the sufferer isn't disclosing what they're thinking of doing. It's a hidden disease in that way. Every person is different, every manifestation of mental illness is different. It's a highly personal issue, and ultimately no one's business but the sufferer, their family, their doctor(s), unless they commit a felony. TP was not a felon.

I listened to the press conference the other day and yes, LE did say that social media and TP's voluminous tweets, some recovered after she deleted them, did not assist them in their investigation and they had to (paraphrasing here) ignore all the noise around that and stay focused on their tasks. It caught my attention when he said it because LE doesn't normally talk about social media, but this officer/press person did and I thought his comment was quite pointed.

No one has to agree with me, these are my feelings and opinions and observations, which I'm entitled to express.

BBM ... I understood what you were saying. You never said mental illness should be hidden. You said that mental illness is HIDDEN because sufferers don't DISCLOSE what they're experiencing. It's really too bad that your words are being twisted and misrepresented, because your posts have been thoughtful and articulate, IMO. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I've been involved in the Taleka threads since the beginning and I absolutely agree that there were some -- SOME, not ALL -- that were insensitive regarding Taleka's social media posts. Most were respectful; SOME were not. There were certainly times when tweets were posted that, in my opinion, crossed a line and were in no way helpful toward finding her -- for example, Taleka posting about her bodily functions.

Time to say goodbye to Taleka and this thread. She is gone and ain't no amount of arguing and defensive group-think gonna bring her back now. Rest in peace, sweet lady. May your family find strength in their faith.

 

[Magdalyn]

Defensive groupthink? :what:

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.

I was drawn to this case for many reasons. One was the location; my husband's family is from MI. Another was that she was a medical professional; many doctors, nurses, and PAs in both my family and my husband's family...many of whom are in MI.

The main was, when I initially read reports of TPs behaviors the night she went missing (and knew nothing of the tweets), the first thing that came to mind was paranoid schizophrenia. Because I have two family members who suffer(ed) from it. My beloved aunt is deceased as a result of her mental illness. I came on here then, before the tweets were discovered, and posted my suspicions regarding Teleka's behaviors.

Lastly, this case made a turn that made everything hit even closer to home. I myself was a victim of staking and I know the terror being stalked can instill.

I have posted my thoughts and opinions, as have many others. Just because a majority of posters who have all reviewed the same data and come up with a general consensus on things (a consensus that actually aligns with LE findings, I might add), and posters feel motivated to post those opinions strongly on a board designed for just such discussion, does not 'groupthink' make.

If one believes groupthink is going on here, please respectfully state specifically what has been posted on this thread that is

1)Irrational,

and 2) resulted in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome for Teleka.

Please and thank you.

 

[geevee]

Why do my posts cause a vitriolic reaction? Read my post again for what I actually said.

Hint: mental illness, like any illness, is a person's private business. Laws have been enacted to protect people's private medical business. What makes someone's illness anyone else's business whether it's mental or physical? If Dr. Patrick had been suffering from cancer, it would still be her private business.

Teleka posted all of her tweets knowing she had followers on her twitter accounts, that some or many were reading them in real time was not a bother to her. After she went missing, that many more read them in an attempt to aid Teleka is not a failing on their part, nor an invasion of Teleka's privacy, as she knew when alive that others were reading while she was typing.

Just moo

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

I believe his motivations are more mercenary. IMO, He would like to keep getting paid, and keep his name, and the name of his agency, in the media. JMO.

Oh, I totally agree. Carlin is working on behalf and is a mouthpiece of the family.

Whatever he is doing, has to be assumed it is with the families blessing because they are the ones who are paying him.

So if you are mad at Carlin, you are also mad at the people who are paying him. What he's doing would cease immediately without a check coming in from them. imo.

So the message has gone from "Finding Teleka" to "Justice for Teleka"?

It's sad because I am almost convinced that poor Teleka would have had no help and support even if she tried to tell those closest to her about her very likely problems.

Even in death, people seem to be more worried about their circle of friends and associates, rather than using this as a powerful platform to raise awareness and helping others.

If I were MS, I'd sue the pants off of anyone who has hired someone to further slander me. I believe that MS has the money and resources to continually take them to court but they likely do not have the money to keep defending themselves--so they should weigh all of their actions very carefully to avoid losing all of their money on top of this tragedy.

As Magdalyn has so succinctly stated, this is more like a mercenary mission, which is very sad and unfortunate.

 

[Momoffourboys]

I find it baffling that SO many are quick to crucify Carlin without any facts or knowledge of his actions, or, inactions.

For all we know, he is doing and has done, everything that has been requested by the family since the day he was hired AND maybe was he was not charging a penny.
Did anyone ever consider that? I did.

RIP Teleka

 

[vlpate]

Why is the family calling for a second autopsy? To knowledge there was not a first. They've merely identified the body and claimed alleged drowning. They haven't even received toxicology reports.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There was a first autopsy...drowning was determined to be cause of death.