MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

[FindHG]

Does anyone know if Turnquist has any male friends - real friends - not just acquaintances, or did he just make friends with women who had young children/grandchildren?

I would look to his karate collegues if I had to take a guess. It's a state of mind for some they share with others, like a silent language for some of the goofier ones. I'm sure you've run into the type at some point? Could Ninja Turtles be a play on that? nah... hmmm... nah Roses, I'm keeping the out there theories in check. So friendships not based on location or cover so much, but based on how many kids they may have had, you're completely right, it's possible that's how he picked friends, a divorced RSO dad's network. hmm

 

[Forager]

Does anyone know if Turnquist has any male friends - real friends - not just acquaintances, or did he just make friends with women who had young children/grandchildren?

There is a 11/1/12 post by JT to an SM hunting site about wanting to go fishing with his father. JT mentions not having had a close bond with the father since childhood, but feeling less uncomfortable with him when fishing.

http://www.michiganbear.com/forum/showthread.php?t=441490

 

[Spellbound]

Hello Everyone..... Forager has researched and developed a map of places of interest for Julia's case. Some are JT's hunting areas and others are strictly related to Julia's places of employment and residences. Sometimes, having all these points mapped out will help everyone understand what has been said concerning her case. Any and all "tools" that may possibly help bring Justice to Julia are appreciated. Thanks Forager for this map plus the other members who contributed to the end product.
Here's the link to the map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z_XRj_yu3Dto.kY07lN8zpHx0
You can use the "zoom" controls and navigate as you would on a normal google map.
I hope this helps in our journey to get Justice for Julia.

Excellent! So many here were closing in on finding Chelsea once we had a similar map. I sure hope you are as successful with Julia's map!!

 

[Trojan1966]

Does anyone know if Turnquist has any male friends - real friends - not just acquaintances, or did he just make friends with women who had young children/grandchildren?

If he has, I've never met them in all our visits to Michigan. We go at least once a year and sometimes even more. When we are there, he seems to normally "disappear" rather than spend time with the extended family.

 

[sunflowerchick]

I am definitely on the fence here :fence: and I waver between JT isn't involved at all to he is involved in both JN and CB murders. I do not know enough about either to make the call because I have missed some of the conversations here. I am trying to catch up but these threads get long. :gaah:

Can someone please tell me how the conversation about the curtain replacing the bathroom door came about? Is that confirmed and do we know what the reasoning was for that to occur?

I will also say this. That the family has lawyered up and hasn't given statements isn't an automatic admission of guilt to me for anything. There are people in this world who are distrustful of LEO and it is part of the way our justice system works. With the way things are playing out, in some ways I don't blame them to be honest. If they, especially JT got the sense that LEO was going to find a way to "get him" for something, they have every right to stop talking.

 

[TravelingBug]

I am definitely on the fence here :fence: and I waver between JT isn't involved at all to he is involved in both JN and CB murders. I do not know enough about either to make the call because I have missed some of the conversations here. I am trying to catch up but these threads get long. :gaah:

Can someone please tell me how the conversation about the curtain replacing the bathroom door came about? Is that confirmed and do we know what the reasoning was for that to occur?

<snip>

Verified insider family member 4ist posting on one of the last posts of last thread.

Worth reading the whole post, IMO.

For what ever reason, JT, decided to remove the bathroom door, when people asked why it was removed, he and Kim said 'the twins were taking to much time in the bathroom', they hung a curtain over the door way. I am sharing these stories, for I am coming in late on so many of these posts, and am not sure how much people actually know about the JT and Kim beginnings.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Ypsilanti-Dec-2012-2&p=11741647#post11741647

 

[sunflowerchick]

Hmm... Ok I read the whole post. I might be sliding down off the fence. If true, there are definitely some huge red flags there.

 

[FindHG]

If he has, I've never met them in all our visits to Michigan. We go at least once a year and sometimes even more. When we are there, he seems to normally "disappear" rather than spend time with the extended family.

Thank you for this, Trojan1966, interesting that he is onto himself at family gatherings than can feel so close to somebody like MIMOMMY, who mentioned having heart to heart conversations with him as well as a friendship that they have kept up. He seems to like to set up the terms of his relationships in a way he can control them. I know this is very prying to ask, what dynamics have you observed with Turnquist and his family. They seem very supportive of him, did he seem more coddled or judged?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If he has, I've never met them in all our visits to Michigan. We go at least once a year and sometimes even more. When we are there, he seems to normally "disappear" rather than spend time with the extended family.

That JT prefers to not socialize with his wife's family speaks volumes. Enough said. :moo:

 

[black_squirrel]

With the Kim N.T. giving birth to the twins when she was 14 years old, she was a young Mom. She lived at home with her family, which all helped with raising the twins. But the twins really were a pretty active and unruly. Which seemed to be a bit of a burden at times for Kim, as well as a lot of stress in the home due to Kim's parents separating then divorcing. It was a lot for all of the family, the Grandmother moved out, leaving Grandpa with his 4 kids and the twins to take care of. Kim was continuing in her studies at school and worked after school and on weekends. The twins became even more unruly and acted out of anger and misbehaved a lot, just needing attention and care, they really were not very pleasant to be around. Seemed everyone in the household, had a love /hate relationship with each other, they all fought a lot. By the time JT and Kim met, it was a very short time before they moved into a one room apt. at her parents home. The twins were thrilled, always wanting a DAD, Grandpa was great, but they really wanted a father, and Kim really wanted the all American dream, a 'family' of her own. From day one that JT moved in with Kim, JT pretty quickly, took on the role of disciplinarian. Kim and Jim moved out of their Dad's house and moved into an apt. together. From the very beginning, Jim certainly ruled the house, very strict with the twins, everyone in the family noticed it, if anyone ever mentioned anything to Kim about it, she would say "well the twins needed discipline" She pretty much took a back seat to raising the twins, worked long hours as she as done since I have known her. Which left the twins alone with their step dad JT a lot. During their time living at these apts., there was a report to Child Protective Services, I believe it came out most recently in the news again, for the report came from the Twins school, something that Julia had said at school, they felt needed to be reported to CPS. Funny thing is Kim swears she doesn't remember the incident.
Wasn't long, and Kim and Jim T., got married, May of 2001. Not long after they married, JT moved the family to Gaylord, Kim said, JT wanted to get away from Kim's family. While living there, Kim went to work for a Walmart I believe, she must of hated being away from Monroe, for she seemed to come home frequently to party and visit with family, leaving the twins with JT alone many times. For what ever reason, JT, decided to remove the bathroom door, when people asked why it was removed, he and Kim said 'the twins were taking to much time in the bathroom', they hung a curtain over the door way. I am sharing these stories, for I am coming in late on so many of these posts, and am not sure how much people actually know about the JT and Kim beginnings.

Thanks for this information. I still have some questions.

1. Why did Grandma move out, and not Grandpa? Did she help with raising the 6 children (including the twins), or did she not want to be involved?
2. Did you visit Kim and JT in Gaylord? It is quite far away from Monroe.
3. Who asked Kim and JT about the curtain?
4. How many bathrooms were there in the Gaylord house. Was there just one bathroom with a shower/tub & toilet, or were there more bathrooms? If so which one had the curtain. If people were visiting and had to go to the bathroom, did the have to go "behind the curtain"?

 

[black_squirrel]

If he has, I've never met them in all our visits to Michigan. We go at least once a year and sometimes even more. When we are there, he seems to normally "disappear" rather than spend time with the extended family.

Would you describe JT as introverted? Introverts can enjoy the company of a group of people, but find it tiring after a while. JT also posted on some website that he was going hunting because her daughter was having classmates over for a sleepover. I presume he does not like too many people around him.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Roses -

He needs to take every measure to take himself off that POI list, but has failed to do so thus far. What is your hypothesis on why he has failed to get checked off the list?

It is my understanding that JT was not named as POI until charges were brought about for possible child *advertiser censored*. Am I wrong here? If this is the case, I would certainly deal with the cases within the court system at the moment first and foremost. Once these issues came to resolution, I would then discuss with my attorney what to do regarding the POI situation. I would handle one issue at a time to give full attention to each. As far as “lawyering” up within a week of the murder does not seem unreasonable to me. I would do it if I were in the same situation as I would want a person familiar with the rights afforded to me for representation. I posed this same question to my child who works within a County Prosecutor’s office and they stated they would do the same thing! Had JT never talked/cooperated with LE or had to be forced into a situation with LE from the first moment of contact, then I may raise an eyebrow. Had JT never given two polygraph tests, DNA or fingerprints…again I would question why not. Being that LE has stated he has done these things but they need more (not arguing passed/failed of the poly tests) leads me to wonder what are they after? Have they hit a dead end in their investigation? Are they being fed information that may not be entirely truthful? Why would a person hand over a computer willing if they were not cooperating? I believe this happened at the end of last year (2014) and is the computer with the questionable content. There hasn’t been confirmation of any new information coming from the search stemming from the search warrants (Feb 2015) that I am aware of or did I miss something?
If this is the case, then I must wonder what led them to ask for the computer. They hadn’t been worried about it for the past two years which also seems odd to me if he had been POI all along. Did someone tip them off that there could be content on it? How would they know? Just seems a bit suspicious to me. As far as the amount of pictures LE had to go through doesn’t seem out of the normal for any computer that accesses the internet! Every photo that pops up during a simple search on the internet is logged into the computers cache, as well as every page visited. Can you imagine how many photos would be on a computer of a compulsive internet shopper???

What do you think he is attempting to hide, if anything?

I don’t think he is hiding anything as he has been cooperative in the past. In my opinion “lawyering up” doesn’t constitute any sort of wrong doing on JT’s behalf, but it does prevent wrong doing to him.

I also don’t find it strange that JT is an avid outdoorsman that hunts alone. My father has been like this my whole life so it’s not out of the norm for me. My father hunts alone, tells no one of his prized hunting spots and spends tons of prep time on hunting. In the same turn, he is able to kill a buck every year to provide the meat he absolutely loves!

Now that I have a much better understanding of the household dynamics prior to JT’s involvement with the family, it’s easy to understand why he would be perceived as such a disciplinarian! As stated earlier by an insider the girls were unruly and subjected to love/hate relationships for the formative years of their lives. If discipline hadn’t been implemented and followed through by any of the adults around them during this period, wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume that any discipline would be seen over the top?

I do want Justice for Julia and condemning the wrong person really wouldn’t be justice at all would it?!

Again, these are just my thoughts on the situation.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Roses -

He needs to take every measure to take himself off that POI list, but has failed to do so thus far. What is your hypothesis on why he has failed to get checked off the list?

It is my understanding that JT was not named as POI until charges were brought about for possible child *advertiser censored*. Am I wrong here? If this is the case, I would certainly deal with the cases within the court system at the moment first and foremost. Once these issues came to resolution, I would then discuss with my attorney what to do regarding the POI situation. I would handle one issue at a time to give full attention to each. As far as &#8220;lawyering&#8221; up within a week of the murder does not seem unreasonable to me. I would do it if I were in the same situation as I would want a person familiar with the rights afforded to me for representation. I posed this same question to my child who works within a County Prosecutor&#8217;s office and they stated they would do the same thing! Had JT never talked/cooperated with LE or had to be forced into a situation with LE from the first moment of contact, then I may raise an eyebrow. Had JT never given two polygraph tests, DNA or fingerprints&#8230;again I would question why not. Being that LE has stated he has done these things but they need more (not arguing passed/failed of the poly tests) leads me to wonder what are they after? Have they hit a dead end in their investigation? Are they being fed information that may not be entirely truthful? Why would a person hand over a computer willing if they were not cooperating? I believe this happened at the end of last year (2014) and is the computer with the questionable content. There hasn&#8217;t been confirmation of any new information coming from the search stemming from the search warrants (Feb 2015) that I am aware of or did I miss something?
If this is the case, then I must wonder what led them to ask for the computer. They hadn&#8217;t been worried about it for the past two years which also seems odd to me if he had been POI all along. Did someone tip them off that there could be content on it? How would they know? Just seems a bit suspicious to me. As far as the amount of pictures LE had to go through doesn&#8217;t seem out of the normal for any computer that accesses the internet! Every photo that pops up during a simple search on the internet is logged into the computers cache, as well as every page visited. Can you imagine how many photos would be on a computer of a compulsive internet shopper???

What do you think he is attempting to hide, if anything?

I don&#8217;t think he is hiding anything as he has been cooperative in the past. In my opinion &#8220;lawyering up&#8221; doesn&#8217;t constitute any sort of wrong doing on JT&#8217;s behalf, but it does prevent wrong doing to him.

I also don&#8217;t find it strange that JT is an avid outdoorsman that hunts alone. My father has been like this my whole life so it&#8217;s not out of the norm for me. My father hunts alone, tells no one of his prized hunting spots and spends tons of prep time on hunting. In the same turn, he is able to kill a buck every year to provide the meat he absolutely loves!

Now that I have a much better understanding of the household dynamics prior to JT&#8217;s involvement with the family, it&#8217;s easy to understand why he would be perceived as such a disciplinarian! As stated earlier by an insider the girls were unruly and subjected to love/hate relationships for the formative years of their lives. If discipline hadn&#8217;t been implemented and followed through by any of the adults around them during this period, wouldn&#8217;t it be reasonable to assume that any discipline would be seen over the top?

I do want Justice for Julia and condemning the wrong person really wouldn&#8217;t be justice at all would it?!

Again, these are just my thoughts on the situation.

Excellent post with some very compelling points.

And now, I think I understand why you and I see this case so very differently. (Which is good, because it tests both of our thinking). I *think* you are viewing Turnquist from the lens of a very intelligent, rational, and sane person. At least you sound like one. ; ) But seriously, your thought process is very logical.

And therein is the point. I think you are applying sound thinking to an unsound man and situation. If we were talking about a healthy minded man, I would agree with you 100%. It doesn't sound like this fellow is healthy minded. Far from it, actually.

As far as why LE took his computer and when, yes...sounds like they got a tip. I think they have been busy talking to all sorts of people because they are not satisfied with the information he has provided to date. And I disagree on the lawyering up point. Your child's opinion doesn't count if they are an attorney; everyone should lawyer up as far as they are concerned. (I come from a large clan of attorneys, so said with a wink, but respect). His legal maneuvering has done nothing but hamper his efforts to get cleared, and move the case forward. It's been counterproductive.

Now I'll wrap up by saying you and I are 100% in agreement on one in particular. I do *not* want the wrong person condemned for Julia's murder. So help us all out Dazed. WHERE WAS TURNQUIST DECEMBER 9 - 11?
Let's focus on getting that answer, and move on. That's all LE wants to know. Me too.

 

[rosesfromangels]

And to all my fellow sleuthers on this thread, I was commenting on your earthquake in Michigan yesterday...well we had a couple out here today too! Northeast of where I am. Just a few little shakers, no spilled drinks. Let's hope it stays that way.:scared:

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Excellent post with some very compelling points.

And now, I think I understand why you and I see this case so very differently. (Which is good, because it tests both of our thinking). I *think* you are viewing Turnquist from the lens of a very intelligent, rational, and sane person. At least you sound like one. ; ) But seriously, your thought process is very logical.

And therein is the point. I think you are applying sound thinking to an unsound man and situation. If we were talking about a healthy minded man, I would agree with you 100%. It doesn't sound like this fellow is healthy minded. Far from it, actually.

As far as why LE took his computer and when, yes...sounds like they got a tip. I think they have been busy talking to all sorts of people because they are not satisfied with the information he has provided to date. And I disagree on the lawyering up point. Your child's opinion doesn't count if they are an attorney; everyone should lawyer up as far as they are concerned. (I come from a large clan of attorneys, so said with a wink, but respect). His legal maneuvering has done nothing but hamper his efforts to get cleared, and move the case forward. It's been counterproductive.

Now I'll wrap up by saying you and I are 100% in agreement on one in particular. I do *not* want the wrong person condemned for Julia's murder. So help us all out Dazed. WHERE WAS TURNQUIST DECEMBER 9 - 11?
Let's focus on getting that answer, and move on. That's all LE wants to know. Me too.

LOL.. no my child is not an attorney but is completing a Master's degree in Criminology (3 degrees & 5 minors including Psychology & Sociology) with one semester to go. This is the same child that lost their bedroom door for a time in the preteen years for the inability to stop slamming it! I've been thanked in the adult years for all the rules and regulations!

 

[rosesfromangels]

LOL.. no my child is not an attorney but is completing a Master's degree in Criminology (3 degrees & 5 minors including Psychology & Sociology) with one semester to go. This is the same child that lost their bedroom door for a time in the preteen years for the inability to stop slamming it! I've been thanked in the adult years for all the rules and regulations!

Something tells me you might be ex-military. : ) : ) : ) : ) : )
And that is a compliment.

 

[Trojan1966]

Thank you for this, Trojan1966, interesting that he is onto himself at family gatherings than can feel so close to somebody like MIMOMMY, who mentioned having heart to heart conversations with him as well as a friendship that they have kept up. He seems to like to set up the terms of his relationships in a way he can control them. I know this is very prying to ask, what dynamics have you observed with Turnquist and his family. They seem very supportive of him, did he seem more coddled or judged?

JT seemed to rule his immediate with an iron fist, always wanting to be in control and being the main disciplinarian. He controlled the financial dealings and was constantly telling his wife that she should stop her "spending". Then I would think... he has plenty of hunting "stuff" and plenty of guns and bows ???? seems the spending was OK for him!

 

[black_squirrel]

LOL.. no my child is not an attorney but is completing a Master's degree in Criminology (3 degrees & 5 minors including Psychology & Sociology) with one semester to go. This is the same child that lost their bedroom door for a time in the preteen years for the inability to stop slamming it! I've been thanked in the adult years for all the rules and regulations!

Sometimes children need their parents to be strict. Julia and Jennifer were not born under the most favorable circumstances. In the Chelsea Bruck case, I have looked a lot at teenagers that have grown up in Monroe under similar unfavorable circumstances. It is quite depressing. A lot of them have no goals in life other than smoking weed. Both Julia and Jennifer did achieve. They got a good education and had good perspectives for the rest of their life. I think that JT and Kim must have done something right.

 

[Forager]

I'm enjoying and learning from these well crafted exchanges between Roses and Dazed. This business of getting the bad guys without getting the innocents is tough work! We're lucky to have such able practitioners. I'm not sure how I'd score the bout, but the adversarial system is definitely winning points in my book. Thank you both!

 

[dmc43613]

If there is anyone on this thread that can provide the name of Julia's roomates, please PM me.

Thank you!