MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[ModMaiden]

Thank you, Spellbound for your answer and the question about the roommates. I tend to overlook them probably cause I sense they had nothing to do with it. I'm curious about the cleaning since it has been reported that items were missing. The investigators realized that possible evidence was left behind that was no longer available to them and no one claims to have any knowledge of removing or the whereabouts of what they seek. Someone had to remember picking up a bathroom rug from the scene...who did that and where is the rug? A professional cleaning company, I would think, would say "Yes we took that out and it is here or has been disposed of."

What tugs at me is that connection from Julie being discovered to when JT was named POI. What led the investigators to him? Is it correct that an FBI profiler was the original point man for suggesting JT? It also appears to me that when something pops up about another possible link to JT, another supporter pops up to throw everyone a bone. Such as the boyfriend having a vasectomy. Why does that happen? Just boggles the mind...

I probably ask too many questions...case is so frustrating and heartbreaking.

 

[black_squirrel]

What tugs at me is that connection from Julie being discovered to when JT was named POI. What led the investigators to him? Is it correct that an FBI profiler was the original point man for suggesting JT?

As a general rule, family and close friends are investigated first. I also believe that some family members pointed the finger at JT early on.
I think the FBI profiler just gave a profile. I think it may have been a different FBI agent that pointed at JT as the most likely suspects (among the possible suspects they had at that time), but I presume he based the opinion partially on the profile.

 

[Mountaingazer]

I wonder if JT cleaned for any businesses that use gloves?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I wonder if YPD put out just enough information (which is the new information that has come to light in the most recent news articles), to get the search warrant and they have more information they are holding back. What could they be looking for on the family computer to incriminate JT or other family members?

It's my understanding JT will not provide a formal statement to YPD as to his whereabouts Sunday night to Tuesday morning. Other family member have provided formal statements, as well as the roommates and others. A formal statement being a written statement. Although he has talked with YPD along with other family members. Why not provide a formal statement?

 

[FindHG]

I wonder if JT cleaned for any businesses that use gloves?

What could make one set of DNA readable and other not, on rubber gloves?

To have one set of useful DNA and another not at all useful:

- may mean that the perp rubbed somebody else's DNA on the gloves, through a job that may have given him access somehow, or just rustling through the guy's garbage, or something akin.

- Then the perp, very carefully, may have cleaned off his own DNA, by wiping off the side he touched.

If this is possible, or if anything like it may have happened, then it would be possible to assume the perp may have been extremely premeditated. He may have entered that room knowing he would look for something, kill her, and leave false evidence behind, it seems possible.

Trojan and 4ist, I'm so sorry for how this all must hurt you.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

From a resume found online, his experience was as a volunteer "marine officer":

SBM, BBM:

under Honors and Activities:
For three years I was a Monroe County Deputy Reserve and Marine Officer. The Reserve Program is a Volunteer Program. As a marine officer I patrolled the waters of Lake Erie enforcing all water related laws

http://www.postjobfree.com/resume/pwffau/medical-assistant-cleaning-part-monroe-mi-48161



SBM:
I would assume after Julia's possessions were removed by family, the apartment complex used the cleaning services they always hired... whether on-site workers or an outside agency, I don't know.

Did the roommates move out immediately?

Many thanks Spellbound! So, JT's experience investigating is water related. Sadly, people have drowned in the cold waters of Lake Erie. It wouldn't be far reaching to say JT could have encountered a drowning or dead body in his work as a Marine Officer, knowing the effect cold water may have on the body in determining the time of death. Also, JT in this line of work would know what it takes to drown a person.

 

[OldSteve]

So much new info! One questions that bothers me is that there's enough fluid to determine a vasectomy, but not enough to get a DNA profile....

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Maybe there wasn't a cleaning job. Maybe that was a story to explain phone call(s) between Julia and JT.
There is an awful lot of smoke here pointing JT's direction.

You know, the report of a cleaning job by JT could have been a cover to explain away phone contact or something since KT reported JT left the family home in Monroe at 7:30am to possibly pick up a guy and go to work, I'm assuming at a cleaning sight. Wouldn't JT mention to KT that Julia would be helping out at the cleaning sight that morning? Wouldn't Julia have mentioned to her sisters that she was helping with cleaning when they met for lunch Sunday afternoon? Could JT have not called until Monday AM to help clean, that seems like very short notice for most people. It seems if KT knew Julia was helping in the cleaning business Monday AM and was a no show, then she received a phone call from a friend stating Julia didn't show up for work at Walmart Monday afternoon/evening, she would've taken action sooner. Wouldn't JT have told KT that Julia was a no show a the cleaning job Monday AM?

I do wonder what time KT received a phone call from the Walmart work friend reporting Julia's absence.

 

[georgiasblu]

You know, the report of a cleaning job by JT could have been a cover to explain away phone contact or something since KT reported JT left the family home in Monroe at 7:30am to possibly pick up a guy and go to work, I'm assuming at a cleaning sight. Wouldn't JT mention to KT that Julia would be helping out at the cleaning sight that morning? Wouldn't Julia have mentioned to her sisters that she was helping with cleaning when they met for lunch Sunday afternoon? Could JT have not called until Monday AM to help clean, that seems like very short notice for most people. It seems if KT knew Julia was helping in the cleaning business Monday AM and was a no show, then she received a phone call from a friend stating Julia didn't show up for work at Walmart Monday afternoon/evening, she would've taken action sooner. Wouldn't JT have told KT that Julia was a no show a the cleaning job Monday AM?

I do wonder what time KT received a phone call from the Walmart work friend reporting Julia's absence.

That was my thought. I do not, for one minute, believe his version of the phone call. The "I love you, Daddy." I call BS.

 

[black_squirrel]

So much new info! One questions that bothers me is that there's enough fluid to determine a vasectomy, but not enough to get a DNA profile....

Did any news article say that there wasn't enough fluid for a DNA profile? All the news reports I saw don't say anything about possible DNA in the semen. This is strange because one would think that they at least must have tried to extract DNA.

Perhaps, they found that there is little to no sperm in the semen. This may have been sufficient for them to conclude that the sample is "consistent with a man who has had a vasectomy". From the information given so far, it is not clear whether the sample is also consistent with a man who did not have a vasectomy. Without sperm, it is still possible to extract DNA from the semen,but it is harder. Perhaps there wasn't enough fluid to apply these more advanced techniques.

The part that bothers me is the timing of the determination that it was consistent with a man with a vasectomy. This was determined in 2014. One would think that it wouldn't take more than a year to determine the absence of sperm.
I think one only needs a microscope for that.

 

[georgiasblu]

How backed up is the Michigan lab?

 

[bessie]

Did any news article say that there wasn't enough fluid for a DNA profile? All the news reports I saw don't say anything about possible DNA in the semen. This is strange because one would think that they at least must have tried to extract DNA.

Perhaps, they found that there is little to no sperm in the semen. This may have been sufficient for them to conclude that the sample is "consistent with a man who has had a vasectomy". From the information given so far, it is not clear whether the sample is also consistent with a man who did not have a vasectomy. Without sperm, it is still possible to extract DNA from the semen,but it is harder. Perhaps there wasn't enough fluid to apply these more advanced techniques.

The part that bothers me is the timing of the determination that it was consistent with a man with a vasectomy. This was determined in 2014. One would think that it wouldn't take more than a year to determine the absence of sperm.
I think one only needs a microscope for that.

It takes a little more than a microscope to accurately determine a total absence of spermatazoa, indicating the donor had a vasectomy. That test is fairly routine, and wouldn't take long to administer. The question is, however, when was the sample submitted. Or more precisely, how long was the wait for it to be analyzed.

As for developing a DNA profile from the semen, I agree that that the quantity and quality of the sample might have been insufficient. Perhaps it's undergoing further testing. There's also a possibility that they've determined a match, but are reluctant to make an arrest simply on DNA evidence from one source, the semen.

JMO

 

[black_squirrel]

I mentioned before that Julia has dated EMU athletes. I believe she had a relationship with at least one of the basketball players, MB. I have also mentioned his teammate GB who was charged with choking his girlfriend at peninsular apartments and was temporarily suspended from the team. What I just found out was that he was one of three basketball players charged for a rape in an Arkansas frat house before he came to EMU. He was suspended at the time. Charges were dropped because of lack of evidence. Yet another basketball player RL, was charged with first degree sexual assault of a 17-year old girl at a dorm in West Virginia. Charges against him were dropped, but he was nevertheless kicked of the team. EMU recruited these basketball players despite their history. I am not sure if Julia ever dated RL or GB. I am pretty sure that Julia new these people though.

Unfortunately, there is often a rape culture on college campuses, especially among athletes. Charges are rarely made because it often is a he said/she said situation. Victims are often blamed, especially if the perpetrator has a high status as a popular college athlete. Although there is no proof that the people I mentioned before are guilty of rape, I probably would not let my daughter date them. I recently read a good book on the subject of campus rape called "Missoula" by Jon Krakauer. Although insightful, I must say that that book is sometimes hard to read.

 

[georgiasblu]

Wouldn't the one profile show if the dna belonged to an African American man?

 

[black_squirrel]

Wouldn't the one profile show if the dna belonged to an African American man?

No, I don't think so:
http://essays.backintyme.biz/item/44

 

[monster12]

If supposedly he was "picking up an employee and had to leave early that morning", who is this other person? Hopefully they have looked into him/her and continue to do so. If the "evidence/fluids/dna " is not matching up to JT, does it match up to the employee he "picked up" that morning?
Sorry if this was mentioned. I have been reading everything and don't recall focus on this other "person" being involved.... If JT is responsible..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bessie]

Wouldn't the one profile show if the dna belonged to an African American man?

Theoretically, yes.

---

Building a Face, and a Case, on DNA
By ANDREW POLLACK
The New York Times
FEB. 23, 2015

Sex has long been ascertained from crime scene DNA. About 15 years ago, some police departments began trying to determine the geographic ancestry of suspects, as well, by using tests like the ones consumers order to learn about their genetic heritage.

In 2003, such information helped redirect the search for a serial killer in Louisiana. Police had been looking for a white man based on a witness account and on psychological profiles.

But DNA found at the site of one of the murders indicated the person’s ancestry was 85 percent sub-Saharan African. Eventually, a black man was convicted of the crimes.

Now researchers are closing in on specific physical traits, like eye and hair color. A system called HIrisPlex, which was developed at Erasmus University MC Medical Center in the Netherlands, is about 94 percent accurate in determining if a person has blue or brown eyes, but less so with intermediate colors like green, said Dr. Walsh, who helped develop the technology.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/science/building-face-and-a-case-on-dna.html

---

DNA: the next frontier in forensics
January 30, 2015 10:52 am
Clive Cookson

Advances in phenotyping mean that a speck of skin or fragment of hair can now help to tell us what a criminal looks like

[...]
DNA phenotyping, in contrast, uses genetic variations selected to give maximum information about personal appearance. The technique is still in its infancy, with eye, skin and hair colour and ethnic or racial background the main characteristics that can be determined.

Further research is expected to provide stronger links with facial shape and, by tracking “epigenetic” changes in DNA as people grow older, give an indication of age. In the long run, phenotyping could transform the investigation of serious crimes in which the offender leaves a microscopic trace of his or her body fluids or tissues but DNA fingerprinting provides no match. It would be the equivalent of having a physical description from a perfectly reliable witness.

[...]
“We are interested in using phenotyping in cold cases and it has already helped in a couple of them,” he says. In one case, for example, Gallant resolved contradictory descriptions of an offender’s racial background. But it is too soon for anyone to have been charged as a result of this research. “We really take our time when it comes to homicides and sexual assaults,” Gallant adds. “We want to make sure we get it right rather than rushing.”

---

Snapshot

---

Sorry. I tend to get a little giddy over this subject because of the potential to solve cold cases. Thanks for indulging me.

 

[bessie]

From a resume found online, his experience was as a volunteer "marine officer":

SBM, BBM:

under Honors and Activities:
For three years I was a Monroe County Deputy Reserve and Marine Officer. The Reserve Program is a Volunteer Program. As a marine officer I patrolled the waters of Lake Erie enforcing all water related laws

http://www.postjobfree.com/resume/pwffau/medical-assistant-cleaning-part-monroe-mi-48161

snipped for focus

That's a good find, Spellbound! No doubt that's one piece in the stack of circumstantial evidence LE is working with.

 

[bessie]

I was reading over the older posts to compare with the drastically different set of circumstances we've learned of this past week. One item I'd noted on a "fact sheet" was "no sexual assault". I thought it was included in a statement from LE, but when I searched back to review, all I found (from the links I used as reference) was a statement from Julia's mom. Does anyone have a link to a LE statement denying a sexual component?

Posted on Tue, Apr 9, 2013 : 9:30 p.m.
Jennifer said police have told the family there were no signs that a "sexual assault or struggle" took place.

"That's what they said right from the beginning," Jennifer said.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsila...-confirms-julia-niswender-drowned-in-bathtub/

 

[FindHG]

I was readis past ng over the older posts to compare with the drastically different set of circumstances we've learned of this past week. One item I'd noted on a "fact sheet" was "no sexual assault". I thought it was included in a statement from LE, but when I searched back to review, all I found (from the links I used as reference) was a statement from Julia's mom. Does anyone have a link to a LE statement denying a sexual component?

Jennifer said police have told the family there were no signs that a "sexual assault or struggle" took place.

"That's what they said right from the beginning," Jennifer said.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsila...-confirms-julia-niswender-drowned-in-bathtub/

The closest to an official description was the reference from LE about Julia being found in an unnatural position, which had led to the speculation of Julia being asphyxiated prior to drowning as if she may have fainted. Thank you so very much bessie, especially as I search through the thread, for how much work you've done here along with Spellbound, BDE, dmc, tarabull and others for all the information they've posted.

"Julia Niswender was found dead in her bathtub in an unnatural position, say police and the 23-year-old Eastern Michigan University student's family members."

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...-drowned-found-in-unnatural-position/19686320

~

"Niswender was found drowned in her bathtub on Dec. 11 in her apartment in the Peninsular Place apartments in Ypsilanti. The apartment door was locked and there were no signs of sexual assault or a struggle, but the residence was in disarray and a few items were missing, according to family members."

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor...t_sometimes_people_get_aw.html#incart_m-rpt-2

~

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/04/10/police-emu-student-was-drowned-in-bathtub/

"Walker said the official cause was asphyxiation associated with drowning.

This case has always been and will continue to be a homicide,” Walker said. “There won’t be a stone unturned.”"

~

http://t.monroenews.com/news/2015/mar/04/jennifer-niswender-backing-stepfather/?templates=tablet

"Julia’s body was found Dec. 11, 2012, inside her apartment near the EMU campus. Although items were missing from the apartment, which was found in disarray, police said there were no visible signs of trauma to her body. She was not sexually assaulted."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...THREAD**NO-DISCUSSION&p=11566453#post11566453

For Reference:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/12/13/emu-students-death-investigated-as-apparent-homicide/

"Niswender’s friend, Jacob McLaughlin, said his last contact with her was Sunday when he received a text message wishing him a happy birthday. He said she didn’t report to work Monday at a Walmart store in Saline."

~

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsila...ls-no-signs-of-trauma-but-foul-play-possible/

"EMU Police Chief Bob Heighes said his department received a couple of tips Thursday it passed along to the Ypsilanti Police Department.

"We've had a few people give us information," he said.

Heighes added students, who are also busy with finals, expressed safety concerns at a meeting held Wednesday night. As a result, EMU police and other campus security organizations have stepped up patrols.

bbm ref: finals week