MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[bessie]

None that I've ever found otherwise. The closest to an official description was the reference from LE about Julia being found in an unnatural position, which had led to the speculation of Julia being asphyxiated prior to drowning as if she may have fainted.

Oh, yes. I remember that one, FHG. And I remember thinking how remarkable it was that such specific details were released. But there was some question about that particular statement. It's interesting to see how information evolved.

Posted on Tue, Apr 9, 2013 : 9:30 p.m.
Jennifer said police have told the family there were no signs that a "sexual assault or struggle" took place.

"That's what they said right from the beginning," Jennifer said.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsila...-confirms-julia-niswender-drowned-in-bathtub/

Posted on Wed, Apr 10, 2013 : 6:44 p.m.
[...]
Also, Julia Niswender's sister confirmed reports that police said her body was found in "an unnatural position" in the bathtub in her apartment, leading investigators to believe she was not taking a bath when she died. Jennifer Niswender, Julia's twin sister, declined to say whether her sister was found clothed in the bathtub.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsilanti/julia-niswenders-family-body-found-in-unnatural-position/

Posted on Mon, Aug 12, 2013 : 5:59 a.m.
[...]
Months before University of Michigan medical student Paul DeWolf was found dead from a single gunshot inside his room at a fraternity, Eastern Michigan University journalism student Julia Niswender was found drowned in a bathtub in an "unnatural position" at her Ypsilanti apartment, according to police.

[...]
"There are some things still at the lab, but no new leads in the case," Ypsilanti police Lt. Deric Gress wrote in a statement. "Detectives have exhausted most of the viable leads at this point."

Ypsilanti police did not wish to comment further.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsila...have-exhausted-leads-in-julia-niswender-case/

November 15, 2013
[...]
"We do know she was asphyxiated prior to being placed in the tub," said Ypsilanti Detective Joe Yuhas.

Yuhas said police believe Niswender was still alive at that point, but are uncertain if she was unconscious.

"She was not deceased (beforehand,") Yuhas said. "It's never been determined (if she was unconscious.) But, she was definitely asphyxiated and then drowned."

[...]
"We don't know how she was asphyxiated," Yuhas said, after indicating it could have been done in a number of ways.

Police have said Niswender was in an "unnatural position" when found, but Yuhas declined to elaborate on that.

"In order to protect the integrity of the investigation, we really want to keep some of those details to ourselves," Yuhas said.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender.html

 

[georgiasblu]

Would ejaculating on clothing be considered sexual assault?

 

[psyquestor]

Aside from the behaviorists opinion of JT, the failure to call police or go check on Julia asap is what strikes me as damning. If my daughter was supposed to meet me someplace (or in this case, show up to clean) and didn't, I would have gone straight to her apartment to find out why. A phone call would not have been enough.

Of course this is not evidence of guilt, but it is highly suspicious behavior imho! It could be that Julia regularly ignored phone calls from her family or went without seeing them. The element that changes this for me is the cleaning business aspect - someone doesn't show up for work is much different than no regular contact or ignored calls. JMOO

 

[black_squirrel]

Who said that Julia was supposed to work with JT on Monday? Who made that statement to police?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mountaingazer]

Who said that Julia was supposed to work with JT on Monday? Who made that statement to police?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought JT did.

 

[georgiasblu]

I thought JT did.

He did refer to discussing her working for him for extra money for the Holiday. Several paragraphs later it was stated Julia was to work that day, Monday the 10th, cleaning for JT. However, it is not clear who said that. See the most recent MLive report.

 

[psyquestor]

Also odd is that the friend of Julia changed her story about the abuse by JT. What gives me pause here is that several people; family and otherwise; suspected sexual abuse, but until now no person had said she stated it implicitly. Only that it had been a feeling or suspicion they held.

The recanting of this gives me a very long pause.

I think *some* of JT's behavior can be explained by a horrible upbringing (to put it mildly by the sounds) but not all of it. I believe (don't quote me) that having an abusive upbringing, raises the chances that you will be an abusive parent. I do not have a citation for this; it is a personal opinion and should be given the proper weight. I personally believe abusive background in this family.

The vasectomy information is too speculative for my tastes. Sure, it doesn't exclude him but it is far from evidence of any wrong doing imhoo. Many males have had that surgery.

Another pause for thought: The cleaning business - What if one of JT's clients (that used such gloves) could be tied to the DNA? Speculation: What if JT used a glove retrieved from trash of his client to place at the crime scene to throw off investigators? Could they tie the glove to him in this manner? The degraded biological material COULD mean that it was old (in other words - old garbage). I agree that it is a medical practice to take one glove off and leave it inside the other (to reduce contamination transfer).

- that's it for now, just thinking out loud here. I won't be able to keep up with this as I have returned to my studies and this takes most of my time.

 

[psyquestor]

That's how I read it. That she was to work for JT's cleaning business that Monday but did not show up or call in. If I am in error, I'm not alone in reading it that way.

The source is quoted in several posts, but I will find it if this helps -

 

[psyquestor]

Also, her phone was found in the tub underneath her? I would be taking a good long look at the phone records. Perhaps the perp thought the water would damage the phone enough to keep LE from finding something on it?

- Speculation.

 

[georgiasblu]

Also, her phone was found in the tub underneath her? I would be taking a good long look at the phone records. Perhaps the perp thought the water would damage the phone enough to keep LE from finding something on it?

- Speculation.

I agree and I think they have looked at her records along with JT's. I believe, due to that informatin, we have the reason JT will not be giving a more detailed formal statement. MOO

 

[Mountaingazer]

Also, her phone was found in the tub underneath her? I would be taking a good long look at the phone records. Perhaps the perp thought the water would damage the phone enough to keep LE from finding something on it?

- Speculation.

I believe this is what the perp thought as well, but I actually have high hopes that LE was able to recover information from the phone.

I used to work for a leading cell phone provider. We always told people, if you get your phone wet, DO NOT TRY TO TURN IT ON TO SEE IF IT WORKS! Take the back off and battery out (if the model allows for it), wipe up any water, then stick it in rice for at least 24 hours.

Cell phones are designed to shut off as soon as water reaches inner components so that none of the inner components get fried. Unless they are submerged in water for a while, these components (minus the battery, you usually have to buy a new one) will work fine once they are thoroughly dried out. It is actually the attempts to turn a phone back on while it's still wet, "to see if it works" , that causes the inner components to be fried and the hard drive ruined.

 

[black_squirrel]

I believe this is what the perp thought as well, but I actually have high hopes that LE was able to recover information from the phone.

I used to work for a leading cell phone provider. We always told people, if you get your phone wet, DO NOT TRY TO TURN IT ON TO SEE IF IT WORKS! Take the back off and battery out (if the model allows for it), wipe up any water, then stick it in rice for at least 24 hours.

Cell phones are designed to shut off as soon as water reaches inner components so that none of the inner components get fried. Unless they are submerged in water for a while, these components (minus the battery, you usually have to buy a new one) will work fine once they are thoroughly dried out. It is actually the attempts to turn a phone back on while it's still wet, "to see if it works" , that causes the inner components to be fried and the hard drive ruined.

What if the perp took out the SIM card?

Perhaps it was the physical evidence on the phone that the perp was trying to get rid of. The last signs of life of Julia was a text message to Jennifer and to her roommate.

Jennifer told her mother she hadn't heard from Julia since Dec. 9. Julia had texted her that night to let her know she was watching Mean Girls, one of her favorite movies, at home.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender_family.html

Niswender's roommate told police she last heard from her via text message the night of Dec. 9, 2012, according to the affidavit. The next day, the roommate heard Julia's alarm clock going off when she stopped in the apartment on her way to classes.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/documents_detail_allegations_a.html

Perhaps the perp used Julia's phone himself to send the text messages, thus giving himself a false alibi. Filling the bath with hot/warm water might also throw of investigators thinking that the murder was commited at a later time. Julia may already have been dead by the time "mean girls" was shown on TV.

 

[Mountaingazer]

What if the perp took out the SIM card?

Perhaps it was the physical evidence on the phone that the perp was trying to get rid of. The last signs of life of Julia was a text message to Jennifer and to her roommate.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender_family.html

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/documents_detail_allegations_a.html

Perhaps the perp used Julia's phone himself to send the text messages, thus giving himself a false alibi. Filling the bath with hot/warm water might also throw of investigators thinking that the murder was commited at a later time. Julia may already have been dead by the time "mean girls" was shown on TV.

It depends on the phone model and the service provider, but generally not much is saved on a Sim card. A Sim card is more like an ID, it gives you access to services by identifying exactly who you are and what you are able to access, while the hard drive and memory card (if there is one) are more like a brain, that's where everything is saved. Just like losing your ID wouldn't affect your brain or memory, pulling the Sim card isn't going to affect the hard drive.


Eta/ Though a lot of people believe pulling the Sim card or throwing a phone in water will destroy/erase information from the phone, so it would not surprise me if the perp believed this as well.

 

[FindHG]

If this was planned, then the perp at some point and for some reason, I'm speculating, decided they'd need time with Julia, to look for something, with few around, heading into finals and winter break.

Anticipation and at times tensions tend to mount during the holidays. In Julia's case, she'd just had a lunch with her sisters the last day she was seen alive, gone through a round of family and friends holiday rituals already, and expected to attend more of them that coming week. She seems pretty pulled together to me with gifts wrapped weeks in advance. That Sunday night, with her dorm suite mostly empty and only a few of her roommates due back to stay through for finals, it would have been the perfect time for what I speculate above.

The evidence:

_ of a rather thorough search,

_ of cutting off her clothes,

_ of cutting off of air to her brain before drowning her, as she was,

_ of potentially, messing water temps to throw off timing

_ of the lack of forced entry,

_ of odd evidence in the absence of other more obvious indicators,

makes it seem to me like time was taken to find something out.

It seems like the perp needed something from Julia worth risking it all, however expertly they may have thought they could cover their tracks.

I would hazard further wild speculation, that this perp/s who may have needed whatever from Julia may have been so bold as to think that their backs were covered beyond the possibility of discovery, somehow. That's the part I don't get, it's like the perp has something over a bunch of people, as it seems so close to her and brazen. What could that be?

 

[arizona sunshine]

Would ejaculating on clothing be considered sexual assault?

I would seriously hope so, otherwise random folk could be allowed to ejaculate on you when the fancy took them. ...for example standing behind you in a line up [emoji15]

 

[georgiasblu]

I would seriously hope so, otherwise random folk could be allowed to ejaculate on you when the fancy took them. ...for example standing behind you in a line up [emoji15]

Lolol. Wasn't too clear this early morning. Let me clarify, we've heard multiple times that Julia was not sexually assaulted. Yet, there was semen found at crime scene. Trying to figure out if the murderer ejaculated after Julia was murdered if that would technically be a sexual assault. Sheesh. Maybe I need to stop the clarifications. 😣

 

[lovinlife83]

I would seriously hope so, otherwise random folk could be allowed to ejaculate on you when the fancy took them. ...for example standing behind you in a line up [emoji15]

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122] omg, isn't that the truth!

 

[black_squirrel]

Niswender's roommate told police she last heard from her via text message the night of Dec. 9, 2012, according to the affidavit. The next day, the roommate heard Julia's alarm clock going off when she stopped in the apartment on her way to classes.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/documents_detail_allegations_a.html

I wonder what that text was about. Is this the same roommate, KM, who stopped by the apartment on Sunday evening, to get some things, before going to her boyfriends' place? I thought Julia and her weren't on good terms. Perhaps the text message was something mundane like "it's your turn to clean to kitchen" or something like that.

 

[Mountaingazer]

Lolol. Wasn't too clear this early morning. Let me clarify, we've heard multiple times that Julia was not sexually assaulted. Yet, there was semen found at crime scene. Trying to figure out if the murderer ejaculated after Julia was murdered if that would technically be a sexual assault. Sheesh. Maybe I need to stop the clarifications. 😣

Wasn't it her sister who said that there was no evidence of sexual assault? Has Law enforcement commented on that at all?

 

[georgiasblu]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/documents_detail_allegations_a.html

I wonder what that text was about. Is this the same roommate, KM, who stopped by the apartment on Sunday evening, to get some things, before going to her boyfriends' place? I thought Julia and her weren't on good terms. Perhaps the text message was something mundane like "it's your turn to clean to kitchen" or something like that.

I thought she had two roomies. Possibly it was the other.