Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #16

[Woofbark]

The part about the cars being parked differently is certainly interesting.

Did they ever identify the man seen around? That there's apparently a composite of?

Was that composite shared with the public?

 

[Woofbark]

Did we ever get a solid distance between Janelles and Brian Joy's house? I recall someone early on saying it was actually a pretty far walk. And as for the girls not staying there because it was so close, remember, unless Brian Joy was lying they actually WERE going to stay there until he decided they couldn't later on. So apparently they weren't afraid of the proximity to JK's house. After all, without their cars in the Joy driveway it's not like her mom would be peeping in windows and see them there.

Do you have a link to the video where Janelle complains to the police about whether or not they even talk to each other? I'd like to see it. To me, this could offer more support for Asher agreeing not to broadcast her actual alibi to the media. In other words, "didn't Asher tell you not to ask me these questions?" If Asher checked Janelle/Mike's real alibi and it was solid (for instance if they stayed at the Joy's and other party goers confirmed), and Ms Kirby asked him to please be discrete about it, I could see her getting pissed off if other cops kept poking and trying to reveal it to the media.

I think it's odd that they didn't stay at his house. How many guys are going to tell two women to go away? Not too many.

 

[Woofbark]

Did we ever get a solid distance between Janelles and Brian Joy's house? I recall someone early on saying it was actually a pretty far walk. And as for the girls not staying there because it was so close, remember, unless Brian Joy was lying they actually WERE going to stay there until he decided they couldn't later on. So apparently they weren't afraid of the proximity to JK's house. After all, without their cars in the Joy driveway it's not like her mom would be peeping in windows and see them there.

Do you have a link to the video where Janelle complains to the police about whether or not they even talk to each other? I'd like to see it. To me, this could offer more support for Asher agreeing not to broadcast her actual alibi to the media. In other words, "didn't Asher tell you not to ask me these questions?" If Asher checked Janelle/Mike's real alibi and it was solid (for instance if they stayed at the Joy's and other party goers confirmed), and Ms Kirby asked him to please be discrete about it, I could see her getting pissed off if other cops kept poking and trying to reveal it to the media.

I think it's odd that they didn't stay at his house. How many guys are going to tell two women to go away? Not too many.

This has always troubled me as well. It makes no sense.

I attribute this to Janelle’s fear that something was going to happen or had happened. Her worst fears were realized and she couldn’t think straight that day. Her actions are inexplicable that day. None of what she did seemed logical.

I would certainly like to know who the girls were talking to at the Hanover party. I’m speculating that Janelle may have seen someone she suspected was a potential predator.

Why did Janelle go to Appleby’s house? She could have called the McCalls from the Delmar home and cut short all the delay. Evidently it never made sense to the SPD either. She complained about this and wanted to know if they ever talked to one another.

If I were the police I would have a long discussion with Appleby. I don’t see him as a suspect but I would want to pick his brains. There must have been some reason why Janelle went to see him that day. Why? What might he know?

Didn’t Asher tell Janelle “there is still time.” What is that supposed to mean?

A FYI: The distance between Janelle’s home and the Delmar home is 11.6 miles. Being familiar with the area, I would guess it would take about 20 minutes to drive.

Brian Joy lived around the corner from Janelle. So it is highly unlikely the girls or anyone else would be at his home.

Having followed many murder cases, one question always is posed to witnesses, relatives or friends. “Who do they suspect?” I’ll bet there would be many of the same names that would come up by most people.

If we think about our own circumstances and a family member went missing, had no enemies, no motive, the chances are great each of us could still come up with suspects and many would key on the same person or persons. Not in all cases but in most cases. The first suspects are always the spouses, close family members and business associates. And last but not least who stands to benefit? How much life insurance was being carried on the decedent or missing person?

Does anyone know if Sherrill had made any investments or business partners? Could she have annoyed an old business partner?

 

[arc anjil]

If this is referencing the discredited APCO sighting it confuses me. It says “McCall.” I’m unaware of another clerk being discussed.

I know the Sherill sighting was dismissed. I am unaware of the Suzie/Stacy sighting at around the 10:30 - 11:30 PM time frame, about the time they were traveling from party #1 to party #2, being debunked.

 

[Missouri Mule]

When one thinks about it I don’t know that much has been said of the girl’s whereabouts after the graduation. If it was I don’t remember it. It seems to pick up when the party broke up on Hanover. We know she called her mother about 10:30PM about the change of plans. That’s about it.

The other unknown is what Sherrill was doing after 11:15PM. It is plausible that someone was in the home with her up to the time the girls came home or even after in her bedroom. All we really know is that she must have been wearing the same print dress that was not in the inventory of clothing. It would be purely guesswork to know what Suzie was wearing as her clothing of that day was in the hamper.

 

[arc anjil]

I think it's odd that they didn't stay at his house. How many guys are going to tell two women to go away? Not too many.

Yeah, very odd to do that. I was 18 a couple hundred years ago, but I still remember. I would NOT turn away 2 pretty girls who wanted to stay at my house, BUT...

What if Brian saw the girls leave to go to party #2 and thought they weren't coming back? So he gives their "spots" to other people. When the girls got back, Brian told them there were too many people now and his mom would probably get mad at all those people in her house.

Does anyone know of any public statements by Joy? How does he feel about turning the girls away, only to find them vanished the next day?

 

[Nixaeagle]

Yeah, very odd to do that. I was 18 a couple hundred years ago, but I still remember. I would NOT turn away 2 pretty girls who wanted to stay at my house, BUT...

What if Brian saw the girls leave to go to party #2 and thought they weren't coming back? So he gives their "spots" to other people. When the girls got back, Brian told them there were too many people now and his mom would probably get mad at all those people in her house.

Does anyone know of any public statements by Joy? How does he feel about turning the girls away, only to find them vanished the next day?

Yes, he said he was afraid his parents might come home and find girls in the house and be in trouble ...

 

[arc anjil]

When one thinks about it I don’t know that much has been said of the girl’s whereabouts after the graduation. If it was I don’t remember it. It seems to pick up when the party broke up on Hanover. We know she called her mother about 10:30PM about the change of plans. That’s about it.

The other unknown is what Sherrill was doing after 11:15PM. It is plausible that someone was in the home with her up to the time the girls came home or even after in her bedroom. All we really know is that she must have been wearing the same print dress that was not in the inventory of clothing. It would be purely guesswork to know what Suzie was wearing as her clothing of that day was in the hamper.

Yes. How do we "know" that all Stacy had on was a T-shirt and underwear? Couldn't she have borrowed something from Suzie?
Did she plan on sleeping like that in a Branson hotel room?
Has Mrs. McCall ever said she saw Stacy leave the house that evening with or without an overnight bag?

I've seen Suzie's height vary from 5'2" to 5'5", but Stacy's is pretty consistent at 5'2" or 3". 15 to 20 lbs. difference isn't that much, is it? Maybe it is at that height...

 

[Nixaeagle]

Does anyone know if Sherrill had made any investments or business partners? Could she have annoyed an old business partner?

Just rumors she was a silent partner with joe , even if she were and it was never proven . joe doesn’t have the capacity to do something like that .
I did wonder how far in depth they investigated the 220 +
clients she had though ..,
I like your thoughts though. The McStay family was abducted by business partner . All 4 of them , including two small children .It took 3 years and 9 months to find them buried in the desert .

 

[Woofbark]

When one thinks about it I don’t know that much has been said of the girl’s whereabouts after the graduation. If it was I don’t remember it. It seems to pick up when the party broke up on Hanover. We know she called her mother about 10:30PM about the change of plans. That’s about it.

The other unknown is what Sherrill was doing after 11:15PM. It is plausible that someone was in the home with her up to the time the girls came home or even after in her bedroom. All we really know is that she must have been wearing the same print dress that was not in the inventory of clothing. It would be purely guesswork to know what Suzie was wearing as her clothing of that day was in the hamper.

How do we really know if Suzie called her mother?

 

[eyeseestars]

This is all TOTALLY my opinion only, but here's my best guess on Delmar pieced together with what we know (feel free to challenge/correct any and everything)

While the girls are out at various parties, we have Sherrill finishing furniture at home. She most likely would have changed clothes from graduation if she was stripping chairs and hanging wallpaper border, right? You would THINK LE would have been able to find and pinpoint these clothes in her hamper due to wallpaper paste/varnish residue and even smell. But I guess that info wasn't released.

So she's probably got on refinishing clothes, she's working and taking occasional breaks to talk on the phone to friends (and probably smoke). I'm looking for more info regarding which room was being wallpapered and where the chair was being stripped but unless it was all happening in her bedroom, she most likely opens her bedroom window, the solid front door, and maybe even Susie's sliding door to air out the house as the fumes would be pretty unbearable without doing so.

Cinnamon gets out at 10:00pm. Possibly Sherrill is still on the phone with the 9:30 caller so she doesn't notice. Neighbors "put him back over the fence"- I'm guessing there's a hole maybe between the neighbor's shared back fence? He apparently gets out often, since they immediately knew him and what to do with him- no walking around with the dog or bringing him to the door like they would if this were something new. I saw where there was possibly a doggie door (conflicting statements about whether it was there then or added later) but if the dog gets out of the fence often, you'd think Sherrill would have made it inaccessible until the fence hole was fixed? From photos, she seems to care a lot about this little dog. She then talks to another friend at 11:00. And that was the last person to talk to her that we know of.

Bartt says she slept in the nude I think, so she would have definitely been that way this night if she had gone to bed not expecting company. And since Joy's testimony states that the girls were planning to stay with him until 2:00am when he revoked the offer, we can at least infer that Sherrill probably wasn't aware they were coming. I don't think Janelle's was ever an option Susie and Stacy considered due to the evidence we have. My opinion only. If the doggie door wasn't blocked, I'm thinking Sherrill may close her bedroom door at night to keep Cinnamon from getting out while she's sleeping.

Ok, so girls arrive at Delmar, probably around 2:30-2:45. Maybe Sherill is still up but in bed reading. She hears them pull up, and if she's in the nude, maybe she grabs the first thing she sees which perhaps is the dress from graduation? I could see her leaving it out to be dry-cleaned. They go inside and are immediately smacked in the face by the smell of varnish/wallpaper paste/new wallpaper. To someone with recurring migraines like Stacy, this would be a nightmare sleeping situation. But Sherrill and Susie seem like sweet understanding folks, so maybe Sherrill once again opens the window and back door to get some additional fresh air inside--and Cinnamon once again goes through the fence hole and once again the neighbors put him back over. It's now 3am. Since I'm 99.9% sure the girls arrived at Delmar and this is a tight time frame, Cinnamon's escape at 3am makes me believe they were up and awake at this point.

There's one bathroom so Susie probably lets Stacy use it first because she's company. Maybe Susie turns the tv on the way she likes it, drinks a Coke and has a smoke, talking to her mom about the night while she waits for her turn. Stacy uses the first washcloth, gets her makeup off, undresses (possibly putting on some sweat pants or wind shorts of Susie's to sleep in) gets in bed. Then because we have two makeup stained washcloths, it's likely that Susie at least gets to the point where her makeup is off (if Sherrill is truly a tidy person, I can't see her leaving her own makeup cloths out on the sink). But because her pink shoes from the night and Sherrill's floral dress are missing according to Charley project, that tells me that maybe she didn't get much further than this before the perp(s) busted inside. We know that Cinnamon ends up loose INSIDE the home and that the doors are all closed (not locked but closed) when found the next day IF Janelle is to be believed. Because Cinnamon had not escaped again by 12:30 when Janelle & Mike get there, this confirms to me that he either didn't know how or was blocked from the doggie door. Again, this backs up the theory that a door was opened at some point again around 3am and then closed back up before the perps left.

So the perp(s) get inside somehow, Stacy is in the bed, Susie and Sherrill are possibly still dressed. They gain control of the women somehow (probably easily with Sherrill/Susie if one of them was threatened) and possibly corral them to Susie's room as the living room has a huge picture window facing the street and they will need some light to keep control of the women. Now they'll need to get them out to the getaway vehicle. I tend to support the van sightings because I believe it would take at least two, if not three perps to pull this off and then you have the three women- six people is a lot to hide making your escape. If the backyard is fenced in and the garage door is dead bolted without an obvious key, the front door becomes the only option. LE also tells us they are confident they left through the front door. But right now, the porch light is on and that would be shining a spotlight on the exit pathway. I simply cannot see an experienced criminal capable of pulling this off who wouldn't turn the light off to take them out. Now here's where I found something interesting but unconfirmed. I read in one thread posted by hurricane that the previous home owner said this switch was "sticky". That a lot of times flipping the switch wouldn't turn the porch light off as intended and vice versa. So if this is true and the light switch isn't working, the only way to disable the light is to remove the globe and at least twist the bulb. Maybe the perp does this and puts the globe down on the porch intending to replace it when he leaves. But it gets knocked/broken/stepped on by one of them in the process of leaving? OR, he accidentally breaks it trying to get it off and cuts himself in the process leaving some evidence behind?

As for the parking situation and witness testimony: Nigel said Susie usually parked directly behind Sherrill and the paper person said parking changed between 3:45 and the next afternoon. So if this is true, that means the women were still inside the house at 3:45. IF Susie was parked in her usual spot behind Sherrill and Stacy was pulled up to the inner portion of the semi-circle, thats a LONG walk with hostages to get to the pulled up van. So maybe they decide to rearrange the cars and gather the purses in order to find the keys. Maybe they don't know the women well enough to know exactly whose purse is whose, so they'll need to gather them all. Carefully pull out the wallets and keys to be sure he doesn't leave evidence. Don't worry about putting them back inside and closing them back up, too risky.

Perp two goes out, backs Stacy's car up. He pulls up as far as he can and backs Susie up too, only he doesn't have big of a turn radius from there so he ends up kind of wonky in the grass. Perp one watches this through the blinds in Susie's room. Van is backed in, into the spot behind Sherrill's car. They take women out through the front door, load them in back of the van, turn the walkway light back on, replace the porch bulb, and leave.

 

[eyeseestars]

I know the Sherill sighting was dismissed. I am unaware of the Suzie/Stacy sighting at around the 10:30 - 11:30 PM time frame, about the time they were traveling from party #1 to party #2, being debunked.

I've often wondered if in fact the Apco clerk did see Susie and Stacy at some point but got his times mixed up. If you look at the map, it looks like throughout the night the girls would have passed that gas station several times and remembering my own teenage years I would think at some point somebody would want something, be it cigs or gum or a mixer. He seemed pretty adamant about Susie especially, saying she bought something and made eye contact with him.

I know the Sherrill sighting was debunked and I personally don't see evidence showing any reason why she would be looking for them, but 2:15 IS precisely when Susie and Stacy would have been traveling by Apco on their way to Delmar. Susie had that canned coke on her bedside table and was a chain smoker, so I could see her stopping for that kind of thing on the way home. Maybe it's possible that he did see them but in all the hullabaloo following the disappearance he got his times mixed up. Just a thought.

 

[Hobgoblinmarket]

Was that composite shared with the public?

I found it here, or at least its claimed to be the composite.

The Crime Scene: `UPDATED~Possible Break In Three Missing Women Case; Police Say Tip Already Investigated:

 

[eyeseestars]

I found it here, or at least its claimed to be the composite.

The Crime Scene: `UPDATED~Possible Break In Three Missing Women Case; Police Say Tip Already Investigated:

I saw it last night in one of the early News Leader articles that also contained a map of the parties and houses. I would try and post these articles that are missing into the media thread, but I'm not sure what's ok with copyright infringement and such.

 

[eyeseestars]

I just thought of another possibility about the globe but it's too late to edit my post. It's possible, IF Janelle and Mike are telling the truth about the broom/dustpan being in the carport, that if the carport was dark, Sherrill's car is parked in there and the garage door won't open that the perp(s) looked in the house but were unable to find a broom to clean up the broken glass. As thorough as these criminals may have been, a broom probably isn't something they would carry around with them. And shattered glass would be EXTREMELY hard to clean up without a broom when you want to limit evidence left behind. And you sure as hell aren't gonna crank up the vacuum.

But at this point, if the crime is already underway what are they going to do? In 1992 I don't know if there were any stores open 24 hours to run grab one so they'd have to wait at least until they open the next day (and remember, it's Sunday). IF (again big if) one of them cut himself on the glass, this would present a MAJOR slip up in the plan. It might actually warrant the risk of returning to get it up OR threatening someone else who happened to be in the house to do it for them. Especially if the girls were willing to talk and tell them what the plan was the next day and they realized no one except possibility Janelle would be coming over. The girls may have told them about the Branson plans so they knew even Stacy may not be missed for a time.

Only a wild theory from my own brain, but I do think it's possible that the perp(s) called the house and that's why Janelle and Mike the scene up- because they were threatened to do so.

 

[myladydeath65]

Yes, the A-Mart "sighting"was found to be another person very early in the investigation but for some reason there are still people who want to refer to it as valid.

And as I've stated many times George's steak house was NOT a fav restaurants of my mothers and that sighting was in all likelihood some other people.

However, a certain long time poster who is incapable or unwilling to source disputable claims. as in the George's sighting, has consistently brought up the subject, as possible, then probable and most recently posted that it was confirmed as an indisputable fact, yet once again, a claim without a verifiable referenced source.

The Suzie, another girl and Stacy with a guy who "looked 30-ish with a mustache"?
Never heard that one before.


I've been researching and posting on our case to much lately. It's time to step away from it for a while.

Y'all, stay safe, wear your mask and practice social distancing when your on adventures.

STAY safe, Bartt!

 

[Missouri Mule]

How do we really know if Suzie called her mother?

I wasn’t clear. Stacy called her mother. I have no information that Suzie called Sherrill. Sorry.

 

[arc anjil]

I wasn’t clear. Stacy called her mother. I have no information that Suzie called Sherrill. Sorry.

Three separate N-L articles - one has Stacy calling her mom, another says Suzie called her mom (when her mom was on the phone to someone else?), and a third says Janelle called her mom.

I guess they all called their respective moms to let them know they weren't going to Branson that night, before it got too late to call.
Also, I would assume they called from Joy's house (where else would Janelle call from? She could have walked home to tell her mom).

We still don't know how they got from Joy's party to Michelle's party...

 

[Talullah]

Yes. How do we "know" that all Stacy had on was a T-shirt and underwear? Couldn't she have borrowed something from Suzie?
Did she plan on sleeping like that in a Branson hotel room?
Has Mrs. McCall ever said she saw Stacy leave the house that evening with or without an overnight bag?

I've seen Suzie's height vary from 5'2" to 5'5", but Stacy's is pretty consistent at 5'2" or 3". 15 to 20 lbs. difference isn't that much, is it? Maybe it is at that height...

I think it was on Disappeared that Janis said Stacy couldn’t have fit into Suzie’s clothes.

 

[Ozoner]

Just rumors she was a silent partner with joe , even if she were and it was never proven . joe doesn’t have the capacity to do something like that .
I did wonder how far in depth they investigated the 220 +
clients she had though ..,
I like your thoughts though. The McStay family was abducted by business partner . All 4 of them , including two small children .It took 3 years and 9 months to find them buried in the desert .

It was pure happenstance that they were found at all. If he had buried them six inches deeper, they would never have been found, and he would have gotten away with a quadruple murder. Instead he was lazy and got the death penalty.