Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[Talullah]

Maybe the perp/s did spend a lot of time at Sherrill's (police speculate) but it definitely seems there was a sense of urgency and I doubt Sherrill was a target or that this was planned. If it was, wouldn't the perp/s have done what they came to do once Suzie left and got gone? This seems heat of the moment. As far as we know Sherrill stayed home and seniors aren't the only people at graduation parties. I agree with those who think police should take another look at the last people to see Suzie and Stacy and everyone at the scene that day. I believe reputations and appearances had too much influence on the investigation. Everyone has skeletons and most people know things they wish they didn't know.

 

[Jenny0101]

Til? Helpi'm not sure what this refers t. o

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Today I L​earned.

 

[Kittycat01]

Thank you Singularity, that is a very intriguing and honestly possible theory. My only issue is I don't know if teenage kids would be able to pull this off. Maybe if they had some help from persons more sophisticated then they were. I lived in Southern Missouri growing up, hell, we couldn't even pull off throwing a keg party in a field without getting caught LOL. Teenagers would talk, I believe. Word would get around. I believe there was some level of sophistication involved here. Having said that, maybe the teens involved had family members or associates who were more mature and evil than them.

 

[nugat81]

Exactly. I wrote it in one of my previous comments. There must have been a bigger picture and friends and "friends" know those (in)directly responsible for the crime.

 

[nugat81]

Very good point. How come the girls didn't know the house was going to be crowded? The family didn't come at midnight, did they?

 

[Kittycat01]

The girls going home from Janelle's points to me "an inside job" almost. The plans kept evolving. Am I wrong, but weren't they originally supposed to get a hotel room? I think the McCall's disapproved. They went from getting a hotel room, to going to Janelle's, to going to Sherrill's. Either there was a stalker, a random sexual predator or someone who had inside knowledge of their actions. I lean towards the latter.

 

[singularity]

Thank you Singularity, that is a very intriguing and honestly possible theory. My only issue is I don't know if teenage kids would be able to pull this off. Maybe if they had some help from persons more sophisticated then they were.

It doesn't require sophistication.

I agree that multiple people likely involved but we don't need expert criminals pulling off a perfect crime. All we need are people capable of getting them out of the house....and this also leans towards people they knew. Its also not a Jimmy Hoffa type case. There are countless areas in MO, especially in this region of the state, to dump bodies and by blind luck they simply are never found....or 50 years from now some hunter or farmer discovers bones.

Its also possible that their bodies were simply dumped in the water and were never found.

I lived in Southern Missouri growing up, hell, we couldn't even pull off throwing a keg party in a field without getting caught LOL.

I was 17 at the time and lived in Anderson, MO(small town near Joplin). I could easily imagine someone taking them out in the middle of nowhere and dumping them....and that's exactly what I think happened.

By the time all the 'friends' came over and did spring cleaning and finally Stacy's mom and LE got involved, it was already over. *advertiser censored* covering became the name of the game at that point.

The moment they started pushing the serial killer/stalker angle, it basically ruined the case and the killer(s) could breathe a hugh sigh of relief.

Teenagers would talk, I believe. Word would get around.

Yeah...maybe. In some cases that does happen. Its human nature to talk. In other cases, they're smart and keep their mouths shut. All parties involved might have had equal culpability(at least from their perspective) and they decided on "friends til the end", a 'blood pact', or whatever you'd call such a thing nowadays.

Something else that shouldn't be overlooked concerning 'gossip' is how this case exploded. It went national(global) and was a top story the summer of 92. In Missouri the case discussion was incessant...temporarily anyways. It made it appear even bigger than it was and everyone involved would've wanted to double down on their silence...especially with the feds sniffing around a bit and its unfortunate they were not handed the case.

I believe there was some level of sophistication involved here.

I disagree. This case was completely botched day one and never recovered. I see a hell of a lot more police incompetence, psychic malarkey, and red herrings(the mythical van, restaurant) than I do sophistication.

If you mean that there was 1 or 2 people in their early/mid 20s involved, I'd agree that its likely.

Having said that, maybe the teens involved had family members or associates who were more mature and evil than them.

IMO it was a group thing. I think something dramatic happened at one of these parties, examples would be a sexual assault, a minor drug deal gone wrong, walking in on a crime in progress, drama over guys, etc. and the girls drove back to Suzie's house.... likely intoxicated. In the interim time between the girls' arrival home and the disappearance, emotions on high and they're overreacting and this leads to quickly hatched plans.

I'd also wager that family members would 'vouch' for these friends and give them an alibi. Happens all the time.

Have you ever been involved in drama that involves a bunch of young people? Everyone acts like the world is ending, a minor incident an act of betrayal, lines in the sand are drawn, you're either with us or against us, and usually the worst thing that happens is heated arguments or a fist fight, usually with a few egging it on?

IMO that's what happened here...only difference being its one of those times it went beyond arguing/fighting and instead led to murder.

The plans kept evolving. Am I wrong, but weren't they originally supposed to get a hotel room?

This point has always been overlooked. You can count on the fingers of one hand how many people would've known they were going home that night. Every movement the girls made that night went against their initial plans and they were making it up as they went along. Not uncommon of course but when murder happens, you've got an extremely small list of suspects, at least until LE start talking to every psychic between here and Timbuktu and cant imagine friends doing it so start listing serial killers.

That fact alone rules out random serial killers IMO. Dont even need to take into consideration the spring cleaning, deleted phone calls, general indifference from friends, going out for a swim when three people have vanished, etc.

LIke I said, the case was botched.

I think the McCall's disapproved.

Absolutely and I don't think its a coincidence that they were kept out of the loop for as long as possible.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

IMO If it was just the girls who disappeared, I could totally buy that it was their 'friends' and SPD would have too. And I used to think the friends had to know something but I don't anymore. And the only persons with a motive of any sort are the 3 grave robbers with a court case pending but as Pat Brown relayed to me, 'Suzie had some squirrely friends'.

IMO the unsubs knew what they were doing, not their 'first rodeo'.
One has already admitted to doing it, according to Michael C. Hawley (he's written a book about this and other cases) he has corresponded and interviewed 2 possible suspects concerning the Sprfld Three. Neither 2 men are considered 'persons of interest by the SPD.

Motive? Deviant sex. That's 'it'. Nothing fancy or mysterious but definitely horrible. And yes, tons of places in Missouri to dispose a body to include sink holes.

Not sure this link will open, its from an article by Michael Hawley concerning another case he is following. It's a replica of the van Larry drove to Civil War Reenactments.
https://www.facebook.com/1163594050...327927528921/1358327874195593/?type=3&theater
Facebook post by Mr. Hawley.
"Perhaps the most compelling clue that points to Larry Hall as a person of interest in the Hailey/Call case is this. Early that Sunday morning, Keith Call’s brother saw a dark van speeding away from the site where Keith’s car was later found. Here is a photo of a van nearly identical to the one Larry Hall told the FBI was his most secret place … a dark, teal green Plymouth/Dodge panel van. (He goes onto say)
"Call’s car was found at the York River Overlook. Their clothes were inside the car. So were their personal effects and money. Robbery was not the motive."
If you've followed the Spfld Three case, the above scenario should sound eerily familiar....


This concerns The Spfld Three case.
http://www.ozarksfirst.com/news/2002-flashback-three-missing-women-case-turns-10
"The only solid leads, one composite drawing of a bearded man, the only official suspect. And the sighting from multiple sources of a green van."

That's my attempt at adding references

 

[singularity]

And we're back to serial killers already.....

This is where I jump off this particular train. While this is one of the most fascinating cases, IMO going down those roads in this case leads nowhere. LE has twiddled their thumbs over this issue for 25 years. Its gotten us nowhere closer to a resolution. and it never will.

There's less than zero evidence of a serial killer and false confessions and innuendos for attention and needing to help push book sales don't count. There's a ton of smoke concerning their friends but they don't dare look for a fire.

IMO If it was just the girls who disappeared, I could totally buy that it was their 'friends' and SPD would have too.

Why would that have any impact in such a scenario? She was a witness. If anyone was hell bent on killing them that night, they're not just going to give Suzie's mother a free pass.

SPD was in over their heads obviously.

And I used to think the friends had to know something but I don't anymore.

Why the 180? 25 years later and those issues have yet to see satisfactory explanations. Literally nothing has changed on that front. The issue is static.

'Suzie had some squirrely friends'.

Why am I not surprised? :thinking:

Interesting how most of the serial killer theories revolve around a van yet there's a strong chance that the van incident was a red herring. That shows how thin the ice is.

I mean no offense towards those interested in serial killer theories. I'll head on back to the Ramsey section. :seeya: I'll probably see some of you over there, especially CircuitGuy.

 

[marble]

Their plans that night were never set in stone. Kept changing and very few people would've even known they were going to Suzie's house. The chances of some random serial killer following them to a house they weren't even supposed to be at are bordering on nil.


This is what I believe happened. Something bad went down in their circle right before going home and a bit later all hell broke loose.

I'm going to have to disagree completely here.

None of the supposed "proof" that the friends had something to do with it makes sense- on the one hand you're saying they knew exactly what happened and were able to clean up and stage a crime scene in a very short period of time on very little sleep, but on the other hand they were completely nonchalant about what happened, could care less, and went to the water park to have fun immediately after?

And everyone was able to keep a secret after?
I find that MUCH less plausible than the possibility they were targeted by a random predator.

Here's the thing- unfortunately a woman in this society has a very good chance of being a victim of sexual assault. Often the perpetrator is known to them, but often *he is not*. Women have a much smaller chance of being murdered by someone, particularly someone who isn't a romantic partner or relative. But I've watched a lot of cases unfold over the years, and I can't recall any where an entire family is murdered and "disappeared" by a group of their child's friends. I have seen quite a few where a killer, serial or not, has been able to control and overpower a family or multiple victims, especially in a home invasion scenario.

Are you familiar with high school kids, or do you remember being that age yourself? Plans are constantly in flux, there are "in groups" and "out groups" and drama and slights and embarrassments and insecurity and emotional outbursts *all the time*. I find NOTHING suspicious about a teenager wanting at some point to go home to the safety and comfort of home (as sad and tragic as that ended up being) if they aren't feeling physically or emotionally well wherever they are. Nothing horrible, or major, or threatening, or *anything* needs to happen for a teenage to decide they want to return to the comfort of their own bed, if only for a few hours. I would (and did, in my teens) offer all kinds of white lies and excuses for why I'd want to leave and go home. Things like not feeling well, stomach ache, etc. I wouldn't say I felt uncomfortable/uncool/rejected/weird/self-conscious etc. etc. or whatever the case might actually be.

As far as the chance of a random serial killer following them home being nil, this site wouldn't be filled with threads WHERE JUST THAT THING HAS HAPPENED.
Yes it's rare. Yes most people are going to have a much better chance of being struck by lightening. But it does happen!

If I were their friend Janelle, I'd be pretty nervous about giving an interview too. I'd probably have some form of PTSD, I'd be completely freaked out by the whole ordeal, and I'd be afraid because whoever took the three would know who I was now and he's still at large.

edited to add: for example here's one recent article about a serial killer/rapist who operated at least between 1990-1998, had multiple victims in the same household, and was able to gain entry without force. http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story...memphis-rape-kit-tied-to-serial-killer-rapist

 

[kiki33]

Hi everyone. I was in 5th grade and living about 1 hour away from Springfield when this happened 25 years ago and the case has always interested and terrified me. How can 3 women disappear? I have spent the last few days reading through all of these posts. Some of you have worked so hard for years and have so much information, it's pretty amazing. Of course, like everyone else, I hope there is some closure at some point for the families, friends, and people that have been watching this case the last 25 years.
I have a question after reading through everything that I may have just missed the answer to but I can't stop wondering....if they were abducted by someone, the person thats activity the night of the 6th and early morning of the 7th is unaccounted for, and this person didn't realize that the women were going to be murdered, then why exactly was he abducting them in the first place? I mean what did the think was going to happen? I realize with no criminal history etc. one could argue that he just never thought it would go that far. Well what exactly did he think they were going to do, sit around a campfire and sing songs? I mean what level of activity after the abduction would have been acceptable to anyone? And why was the abduction itself acceptable to this mystery man person? Was he doing it by force bc he was in trouble with someone regarding drugs or something? Did he think they would just scare the women and then let them go? And what would be the purpose of scaring them? Perhaps to conceal any knowledge of the grave robbing situation?
Of course this is all just opinions and theory and speculation but when looking at this theory I just can't make that part of it make sense. Can anyone help? Thanks so much!!

 

[Jenny0101]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

[marble]

have the friends been named as POI?

If not these last few series of posts accusing them should not be here at all.

 

[nugat81]

What do you mean specifically?

 

[bessie]

ADMIN NOTE: Be very careful about casting aspersions on those who are heretofore considered innocent. If LE hasn't tagged them, than neither can you. I realize it's difficult to omit them (friends) entirely from the equation, but I've read outright accusations, and that does not fly, per TOS. Keep it up, and you'll find yourself outside looking in. Tread carefully.

Bessie
WS ADMINISTRATOR

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Let's push these ideas a little further. We have all seen all sorts of speculative motives for killing any one of the three women: drugs, money, Suzie's involvement with the grave robbers, Stacy being very attractive and someone wanting to abduct her, etc. And some of those motives might explain why someone would target Sherrill and Suzie as a duo. It's possible some kid thing would lead to an assault on the two girls, but no stated motives really explain the abduction and presumed murder of all three, other than “serial rapist/killer.” But focusing on that motive ignores the fact that the police have said that one or more perpetrators didn’t realize the full extent of what was to happen to the women, which suggests multiple suspects with different understandings of what was supposed to go on. Perhaps it suggests a leader with an agenda and some followers who had been drinking or doing drugs. Or a person or persons who started something and lost control.

Moreover, we have a crime scene that doesn't scream "random" or "violent" or the work of random attackers but in fact suggests that the assault was 1) planned and/or executed by an experienced, orderly type of criminal, not a random one; 2) conducted by an inexperienced killer or group of killers who got very lucky and left little evidence; or 3) the crime scene was cleaned up and to some extent staged afterward, so the shorts, the jewelry, the moving of the cars are all open to question. One thing for sure, the purses were left grouped in a way that would be unlikely, especially for smokers, and the dog was in the bathroom, where Sherrill would not have shut him in. That suggests that the abductor/abductors did not want interference from the dog—and did not think or care locking up the dog would point to an intruder but who made a decision not to kill it.

We also know that whoever abducted the women knew there were likely 3 people in the house. Three cars. If the killer(s) knew Sherrill and Suzie, and didn't know of the girls' plans, a third car means three people, and no telling if the third car belonged to a 6'4" inch armed male relative in town for graduation. If the killer(s) knew Stacy and Suzie were there and the girls were the targets, it would also be clear that there would be a third person in the house, almost certainly an adult.

If someone were looking to abduct or kill Suzie, that person had to either be 1) with Suzie and Stacy; 2) told by someone who was with them that they went to Suzie’s and knew the address; 3) follow Suzie back to her house either from the parties or say a convenience store; 4) or trolling her neighborhood to look for her on the worst possible night to predict the whereabouts of a HS senior, short of after prom. And the day after graduation is often filled with outings and parties, likewise unpredictable, so the window of opportunity is narrow and favors someone who knows both girls. That's it. No other possibilities. Likewise with Stacy.

If Sherrill were the target, 3 cars would have nixed that. She had a teenage daughter and that meant there would be lots of other opportunities to get her alone. Had a killer already been in the house, it's unlikely that the girls would have started bedtime rituals if there were a strange car or van in the driveway. It’s a very small house with one bathroom. The dog couldn’t have been in the bathroom when the girls got there because they washed their faces and prepared for bed. It’s possible that an intruder held Sherrill in the bedroom, the dog was loose, and the girls figured they got lucky not waking Mom up. But I see this as extremely unlikely. There would have been forensic evidence on Sherrill’s bed, even if it was just fibers and hair in those pre-DNA days because where else could Sherrill and an intruder been hidden? Most people with small dogs let them sleep on the bed. And we know the dog was loose.

Where does that leave my thinking? It’s possible that Suzie and Stacy attracted some bad attention the night of the graduation parties and were either followed to Delmar or someone was told where they were going. If there were two or more people, following the police comments, one or two thought they were just doing some sort of partying and things got out of hand, perhaps urged on by someone who had dark intentions. It’s possible that whoever started this failed to reckon with Sherrill. Maybe someone was given an overdose or was assaulted and Mom woke up. Or someone thought of robbery and things got out of hand. From there, someone pushed to cover it all up.

If there was only one person, he’s a sadistic killer. That’s probably the only thing I’m sure of.

 

[marble]

IMO the most likely link is to this earlier double rape/murder in Portageville Missouri by a serial killer linked to similar home invasions.

I dropped this link into an earlier comment but I really think this needs further consideration. The times fit as do the methods and the killer's targeting and control of multiple victims at the same time:

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story...memphis-rape-kit-tied-to-serial-killer-rapist

edited to add: The killer linked by DNA to the other crimes had this target choice in common: he picked places easily accessible by major highway.

Take a look at the four points for victims (plus springfield) on this google map: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Spr...77bf257696!2m2!1d-82.3940104!2d34.8526176!3e0

Springfield would fit his location choices.

 

[Betty P]

IMO the most likely link is to this earlier double rape/murder in Portageville Missouri by a serial killer linked to similar home invasions.

I dropped this link into an earlier comment but I really think this needs further consideration. The times fit as do the methods and the killer's targeting and control of multiple victims at the same time:

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story...memphis-rape-kit-tied-to-serial-killer-rapist

edited to add: The killer linked by DNA to the other crimes had this target choice in common: he picked places easily accessible by major highway.

Take a look at the four points for victims (plus springfield) on this google map: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Spr...77bf257696!2m2!1d-82.3940104!2d34.8526176!3e0

Springfield would fit his location choices.

That's interesting, but not sure it fits. There's a gap of several years between the Springfield 3 kidnappings and those in the other linked crimes. There's also a different MO, with kidnapping in the 3mw, but not in the others. As others have pointed out, 3 missing women from the same location, missing and never found, indicates more than one perp involved. That's a lot of excited, possibly inebriated women to control.

For those considering someone following them home from the party(s) that night, it seems plausible. I don't have a lot of details about the graduation party, but if it was a large one, with kids in and outside the home, there were probably a lot of people there. At big parties, there are sometimes "side" parties - groups that go off to someone's car or in the woods, etc. to get high or hang out. Maybe a "friend of a friend of a friend" group was hanging out in a car down the street or something. These would likely be people older than the high school crowd, possibly with something stronger than beer or pot. Maybe one or both of the girls went to the car to partake of the fun and caught the attention of the wrong people, who then followed them home. It all could have happened without the parents/hosts of the graduates knowing their identities or that they were even in the area.

How long were they at the graduation party? Quite a few hours, right? Were LE patrolling the area of the party? How many people were there?

 

[pittsburghgirl]

When I have time later, I want to read these carefully. But I did a little research today on serial rapist/murderers who assault multiple victims. That's a reasonable scenario, to my mind.

 

[marble]

That's interesting, but not sure it fits. There's a gap of several years between the Springfield 3 kidnappings and those in the other linked crimes. There's also a different MO, with kidnapping in the 3mw, but not in the others. As others have pointed out, 3 missing women from the same location, missing and never found, indicates more than one perp involved. That's a lot of excited, possibly inebriated women to control.

For those considering someone following them home from the party(s) that night, it seems plausible. I don't have a lot of details about the graduation party, but if it was a large one, with kids in and outside the home, there were probably a lot of people there. At big parties, there are sometimes "side" parties - groups that go off to someone's car or in the woods, etc. to get high or hang out. Maybe a "friend of a friend of a friend" group was hanging out in a car down the street or something. These would likely be people older than the high school crowd, possibly with something stronger than beer or pot. Maybe one or both of the girls went to the car to partake of the fun and caught the attention of the wrong people, who then followed them home. It all could have happened without the parents/hosts of the graduates knowing their identities or that they were even in the area.

How long were they at the graduation party? Quite a few hours, right? Were LE patrolling the area of the party? How many people were there?

I also think the possibility they were followed from the party by people (or a person) they weren't friends with and/or hadn't met before. I think that is one scenario (among others) that LE has considered, and I believe that's the one they were trying out when they floated the message about people being unwilling or unplanned accomplices - it was an attempt to appeal to anyone who had knowledge or involvement in such a scenario.

I still lean toward this being linked to the other cases though because there really isn't much of a gap:
the first episode linked by DNA occurred in 1990. The last was 1998. Springfield was 1992 so the gap was only two years since the first established murder.

It's true that none of the other victims were kidnapped, but the killer's MO changed each time after he gained entrance to their houses:

1. 1990, Genevieve Zitricki, a 28-year-old , was blitz attacked while she slept in her apartment in Greenville, SC. The offender forced entry via the patio sliding glass door. Zitricki was beaten and strangled to death and found in her bathtub. The offender left a threatening message on her mirror.

2. 1997 The suspect knocked at the front door of the Memphis home and used a revolver to threaten three woman and a minor, Hensley says. He bound the victims before sexually assaulting the young girl.

3. 1998 Portageville Sherri Scherer, 37, and her daughter Megan, 12, were found shot to death.

Two hours later and 40 miles away in Dyersburg, TN, a white male approached a woman in her mobile home asking for directions. A struggle ensued and the stranger fired a shot through the door, striking the woman in the shoulder. The victim survived her injuries. The unknown male left the premises in a full-size van, possibly maroon in color. The bullets from this encounter matched the bullets used to kill the Scherers.----- also this woman who lived had children in the house at the time and authorities suspect he picked her house, like the Scherers, because there were children's items outside.

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/vicap/homicides-and-sexual-assaults/unknown-suspect-12