MISTRIAL - Sidney Moorer on trial for the kidnapping of Heather Elvis #4

[Jersey*Girl]

Can I just say that I thought Bri was absolutely amazing with how she explained the relationship between HE and her parents. It's so true, so very very true that teens can be unruly and headstrong and rebellious and sometimes misguided... That fact that HE's parents are still in the light following this through and trying their damnedest tells me that they're supportive loving parents. Parents sometimes have rules and need to make difficult decisions to stick to those rules. I can't imagine the pain they must have felt when they found out Heather had been sleeping in her car for a bit, so for Bri to explain it the was she did and to present herself as an example, well it just warmed my heart. This is a girl that actually "gets it". I think that if HE were still here today, even though she made the mistakes that she did, she may have started to grow up as well. Maybe if she really was pregnant, having a baby would show her a sense of responsibility and added worth. There's no doubt in my mind that she'd have had a good support system with her family.

 

[meinmyrtlebeach]

Can I just say that I thought Bri was absolutely amazing with how she explained the relationship between HE and her parents. It's so true, so very very true that teens can be unruly and headstrong and rebellious and sometimes misguided... That fact that HE's parents are still in the light following this through and trying their damnedest tells me that they're supportive loving parents. Parents sometimes have rules and need to make difficult decisions to stick to those rules. I can't imagine the pain they must have felt when they found out Heather had been sleeping in her car for a bit, so for Bri to explain it the was she did and to present herself as an example, well it just warmed my heart. This is a girl that actually "gets it". I think that if HE were still here today, even though she made the mistakes that she did, she may have started to grow up as well. Maybe if she really was pregnant, having a baby would show her a sense of responsibility and added worth. There's no doubt in my mind that she'd have had a good support system with her family.

Knowing TE and HE, I can absolutely PROMISE you that if he'd known she was sleeping in her car he never would have allowed that. He was the doting father, she was the apple of his eye. Trust me on that. She was rebellious like alot of teenage girls. I remember at one time her room was messy. She wanted a car. TE wanted her to clean up her room. She was stubborn. Didn't wanna clean her room up. I tried to convince her how simple it would be to clean the room and get a car!! As an aside, I don't think she ever cleaned her room, but Daddy relented and she got a car. For all of the terrible stories the trolls have had about TE and her relationship, it certainly wasn't that way when she was 16 or 17. She would come up to his office/shop/store often and have pizza with him and sometimes with her friends and him. I'm sure as she got a bit older, tensions probably grew as she gained her independence, but TE isn't the monster these idiots make him out to be, and he would do anything he could to protect her and spoil her.

 

[LBDunes]

I don't know. It could have been a bluff.

The test on demand after a PTL kidnapping doesn't quite work for me. I think there are some missing pieces with the pregnancy part of the story.

I think it was an incomplete story, but I don't think it was a bluff. However without the pregnancy, either you have to connect the dots given or not. I believe they had a pretty tight case. I do not think the verdict should hinge on the pregnancy. It should hinge on the deception to lure her to the landing, which is what the deceptive payphone call was about. Pregnancy could have been a motive. I don't believe the motive mattered. Kidnapping as defined imo by the law was met here by the criteria outlined in the state's case.

 

[Knox]

Knowing TE and HE, I can absolutely PROMISE you that if he'd known she was sleeping in her car he never would have allowed that. He was the doting father, she was the apple of his eye. Trust me on that. She was rebellious like alot of teenage girls. I remember at one time her room was messy. She wanted a car. TE wanted her to clean up her room. She was stubborn. Didn't wanna clean her room up. I tried to convince her how simple it would be to clean the room and get a car!! As an aside, I don't think she ever cleaned her room, but Daddy relented and she got a car. For all of the terrible stories the trolls have had about TE and her relationship, it certainly wasn't that way when she was 16 or 17. She would come up to his office/shop/store often and have pizza with him and sometimes with her friends and him. I'm sure as she got a bit older, tensions probably grew as she gained her independence, but TE isn't the monster these idiots make him out to be, and he would do anything he could to protect her and spoil her.

What teen/twenty something doesn't step away in one form or another from their families. Mr.& Mrs Elvis were clearly good parents and loved Heather. No doubt in my mind they would have reconciled with her, had that option not be taken from them.

I don't entertain for a moment, anything the idiots spew.

 

[LBDunes]

Can I just say that I thought Bri was absolutely amazing with how she explained the relationship between HE and her parents. It's so true, so very very true that teens can be unruly and headstrong and rebellious and sometimes misguided... That fact that HE's parents are still in the light following this through and trying their damnedest tells me that they're supportive loving parents. Parents sometimes have rules and need to make difficult decisions to stick to those rules. I can't imagine the pain they must have felt when they found out Heather had been sleeping in her car for a bit, so for Bri to explain it the was she did and to present herself as an example, well it just warmed my heart. This is a girl that actually "gets it". I think that if HE were still here today, even though she made the mistakes that she did, she may have started to grow up as well. Maybe if she really was pregnant, having a baby would show her a sense of responsibility and added worth. There's no doubt in my mind that she'd have had a good support system with her family.

I totally agree Bri was a fantastic witness. I was stunned at how well she did on that stand. She was poised and mature. She came across as very credible.

 

[lstiff]

I think it was an incomplete story, but I don't think it was a bluff. However without the pregnancy, either you have to connect the dots given or not. I believe they had a pretty tight case. I do not think the verdict should hinge on the pregnancy. It should hinge on the deception to lure her to the landing, which is what the deceptive payphone call was about. Pregnancy could have been a motive. I don't believe the motive mattered. Kidnapping as defined imo by the law was met here by the criteria outlined in the state's case.

I just feel there is no proof (beyond reasonable doubt) that it was SM in the truck headed to PTL. I think it was him and possibly TM but I wouldn't bet on my life or even my next paycheck. When I get here (I've been here several times before) I have to remind myself if TM (and maybe her dad/sis) helped her without SM, why didn't he turn her in and why did he carry on like normal? Is he fearful for the kids more than himself? Well he didn't think about them when he was having his affair. Well maybe now that HE is gone (presumably dead) he knows TM is serious? No, LE could protect him and the kids.

See, I'm back and forth in my own mind and I've heard a crap ton more than the jury. I wonder where their minds are.

Jmo

 

[jillycat]

I think it was an incomplete story, but I don't think it was a bluff. However without the pregnancy, either you have to connect the dots given or not. I believe they had a pretty tight case. I do not think the verdict should hinge on the pregnancy. It should hinge on the deception to lure her to the landing, which is what the deceptive payphone call was about. Pregnancy could have been a motive. I don't believe the motive mattered. Kidnapping as defined imo by the law was met here by the criteria outlined in the state's case.

The dots that disconnect for me are after he calls her and after she calls Bri, she piddles with her Tumblr account, and somewhere are 45 minutes no one can account for. She starts calling the pay phone, leaves and drives around and hangs out at the restaurant, then drives more, and goes home, without incident or restriction. Then after she calls him, she heads out and disappears. If the pay phone was the lure, there was quite a journey to the kidnapping scene.

I don't believe the verdict hinges on a pregnancy. We don't know if she was pregnant.

 

[lstiff]

on the whole pregnancy test thing.....could this fit the timeline and make sense?

SM buys the test on video, then we know he called her from the payphone on video, could that conversation have been "meet me at the parking lot of Longbeards and i'll bring you an EPT. Then they meet for a few minutes, perhaps re-igniting passion with hugs/kisses or whatever(real or contrived), then she takes the EPT home back to the apt and does the test. Then calls to tell him the results(the 2 phone calls to his cell), then heads to PTL perhaps because he told her to meet him there to celebrate or whatever?

Does that fit the timeline of the pings etc? That MIGHT help explain the reason for him buying an EPT, and also explain why she went to Longbeards, and also explain how her car got to PTL. Perhaps at that point SM was back at home when she finally got through to his cell, and if the result was positive, this infuriated TM and they BOTH met her at PTL to do the deed?

This fits pings & TL except you have 2 logical choices to add in. A) SM and TM plotted weeks prior (on their trip) to kill HE together and this was their sloppy (IMO) way of doing it or 2) SM really was going to leave TM and somehow got caught or ambushed by her and possibly her people. Idk but I know there is reasonable doubt in my own mind and that makes me worried/sad/nervous.

JMO

 

[LBDunes]

I just feel there is no proof (beyond reasonable doubt) that it was SM in the truck headed to PTL. I think it was him and possibly TM but I wouldn't bet on my life or even my next paycheck. When I get here (I've been here several times before) I have to remind myself if TM (and maybe her dad/sis) helped her without SM, why didn't he turn her in and why did he carry on like normal? Is he fearful for the kids more than himself? Well he didn't think about them when he was having his affair. Well maybe now that HE is gone (presumably dead) he knows TM is serious? No, LE could protect him and the kids.

See, I'm back and forth in my own mind and I've heard a crap ton more than the jury. I wonder where their minds are.

Jmo

BBM - Hopefully their minds are on the evidence presented in court. Not the tons of crap we have heard. If you believe SM made the call, I just can't see why you have to think twice that he was in the truck? TM may be involved, but unfortunately she didn't make the call to lure Heather, unless you don't believe Bri's testimony.

 

[lstiff]

BBM - Hopefully their minds are on the evidence presented in court. Not the tons of crap we have heard. If you believe SM made the call, I just can't see why you have to think twice that he was in the truck? TM may be involved, but unfortunately she didn't make the call to lure Heather, unless you don't believe Bri's testimony.

I do believe Bri, SM called HE to tell her he was leaving TM and she rejected him. What other place did SM have to go from there besides home? HE then called him back (I assume she changed her mind or wanted to talk) and by then he was at home. I don't know for certain but I'm saying it leaves room for doubt. Was crazy controlling, threatening, handcuffing and phone stealing TM out looking for SM or did he just go back home and pretend he was at work? Then the crazy TM came out when HE called the cell? None of us know for certain & that makes me concerned. It's all logical, I guess the Jury should use logic as instructed bc they don't have any way to know if TM or SM was or wasn't in the truck. I guess this is just the result of a Circumstantial case.

ETA IMO and that circumstantial cases are frustrating- IMO

 

[TessDeco]

Thank you for this. Heather's case is what brought me to Webslueths and I've been overloaded with it since the beginning. I've wondered how this would trial would appear to someone not so familiar with it. This gives me hope that the jury will see through the courtroom antics and find him guilty. In my heart of hearts I think the Sidney and Tammy Moorer are guilty.

I believe SM is guilty too. There is just too much on Sidney the night HE disappeared for him not to be involved. The Tilted Kilt employees testified that the affair was no secret. Even before TM found out, there was tension around this affair. Friends at work and even Bri, expressed their disapproval to HE. Then TM finds out and she starts harassing HE. Add a possible pregnancy to this mix and these people were headed for a collision. I don't know if SM set out to kill Heather that night. I do know that he contacted her and Heather disappeared. How TM is implicit, I'm not sure yet, but I don't think "she's been brought into this case against her will" as SM stated in his media interview this week, despite the gag order.

http://wbtw.com/2016/06/22/news13-e...s-trial-says-pregnancy-test-was-for-his-wife/

The thing is ..the jury has nothing to focus on except the State's version of this case. All the State's witnesses, emotional co-workers, expert's testimony, law enforcement, all the charts and data projected on the wall. The defense gave them very little to consider. They offered no other explanation. In his closing, KT implied that the State's case wasn't worth rebutting and he hinted at TM's culpability. Is that enough for reasonable doubt? IDK I think it was a mistake for the defense not to present a case but what do I know. Guilty or a hung jury. We shall see.

All just MHO..

 

[suzyjackson]

Checking in from England while I take a much needed break from our European referendum ceoverage.

I've watched the trial online (thank you Ladyjustice) and tried to put myself in the place of the jurors without having years of knowledge of the case and I'm not entirely convinced they will have enough to convict on the basis of what was presented in court although I will be keeping my fingers crossed they will come to the right conclusion

#ifyoudontmindtelltthisjury

 

[jellybeanz]

I am hoping that the Jury will see the States presentation of the case in the same light Judge Dennis did. My jaw dropped when he went into his monologue on the 'highlights' of the case.

I was kinda fizzing it wasn't a bench trial at that point.

If a not guilty is handed down today, I don't think that would be the end of this whole affair. MOO

 

[jellybeanz]

I have a question. I may not be in the right thread to ask, please direct me to the appropriate thread if so.

The murder charges have been dropped. Until Heather is found, it will NOT be known if she was still pregnant. It sounds to me as if she was, she would have been between 3-5 months? Then if she is found, they can be tried(hopefully) for her and the baby's death? I just don't understand how TM KNEW that SM contacted her that night, was there a rumor at work about the baby and she just went postal? Did TM finally get wind of a baby? Why that night?

Why that night?

I think Tammy was stalking ALL of Heather's social media. I also think the pair decided Heather had to go during their vacation in Nov/Dec.
They would have known Heather was going on a date, or at latest would have known when Heather posted the stick shift picture to FB. This was their opportunity and they swung into action.

 

[suzyjackson]

Why that night?

I think Tammy was stalking ALL of Heather's social media. I also think the pair decided Heather had to go during their vacation in Nov/Dec.
They would have known Heather was going on a date, or at latest would have known when Heather posted the stick shift picture to FB. This was their opportunity and they swung into action.

I thought the stick shift photo was only sent to Heather's roommate, it wasn't shared on any SM iirc. Remembering back to the original discussions it wasn't until TE made it public that we saw that photo JMO as my memory may be failing me

 

[jellybeanz]

Yes, iirc it wasn't a heinous crime "scene", it was the manner in which the crime occurred that was heinous. In other words, luring a poor young girl out in the middle of the night, with the promise of finally getting her true love back, while behind the scenes planning her demise.

It wasn't until the State hinted strongly that Heather was possibly pregnant, that the words 'heinous crime' started to make full sense to me.

 

[jellybeanz]

Then the whole trip to Longbeards and staying there 15 mins or so kind of ruined my whole scenario of how things went down. It might make sense if something happened to her there, since there didn't appear to be any evidence of a crime at PTL, but then the problem of getting her car all the way over to PTL, as well as her phone calling SM's phone all those times en route or when she or her car arrived there.

On the contrary, I believe the information about Longbeards and the timings help paint a clearer picture of what was going on.
Firstly, from that point on in the timeline (2.40am until 3.40am), there are so many possibilities that could happen and I understand why the State presented their take on that hour. I'd like to have heard what she was intending to finish with in Closing, bur for now we have to go with what was said...

My opinion now is
Heather was travelling to Longbeards at 2.40am. (Did they arrange to meet at Longbeards an hour after the 4 minute payphone call?)
She spam called the payphone on her journey and when she got there.
She got sick of waiting on Sidney at around 3am (20 minutes late?), so decided to head back home.
On that long straight of road outside Longbeards she passed the F150 on its way to Longbeards. (one or both of them would have flashed their lights to acknowledge)
She turned off the long straight road and did a U-turn at the housing estate at Plantation and headed back to Longbeards parking lot.
Sidney's phone is switched on.
She would have arrived and parked close to where the F150 was already parked.
She would have seen Sidney and got out of her car with her keys and phone.

I believe at this point she was jumped and taken to another place by others (remember that $5k?).
Sidney got into Heather's car with her phone and left the lot. He stopped just outside Longbeards to adjust the seating/mirrors in the car and then drove to PTL via Heather's apartment. I believe the original plan was to drop the car off at her appt, but that changed for some reason.
Sidney was using Heather's phone and when he got to PTL he was beyond frantic calling his own cell as code to say he was at the picking up/dropping off place - PTL.
Heather's phone was tossed into the lake as far as he could throw it. The water would very quickly make the phone go dead.

 

[jellybeanz]

I thought the stick shift photo was only sent to Heather's roommate, it wasn't shared on any SM iirc. Remembering back to the original discussions it wasn't until TE made it public that we saw that photo JMO as my memory may be failing me

It's probably my memory Suzy, if i am incorrect in that part, apologies. My point stands about Heather's social media being stalked and the Moorers seized their opportunity the night of Heather's date with SS.

Tammy's computer trail should be very enlightening at her trial.

 

[lstiff]

It's probably my memory Suzy, if i am incorrect in that part, apologies. My point stands about Heather's social media being stalked and the Moorers seized their opportunity the night of Heather's date with SS.

Tammy's computer trail should be very enlightening at her trial.

I'm still upset we didn't get to see web browser history from phones or computers. I agree, if TM goes to trial (hopefully so) we should have tons of beautiful evidence from her online activity. IMO

Fingers crossed the jury comes in with a guilty verdict today, SM (or TM) posted on Social Media in the wee hours of the morning (do these people ever sleep at night?) and he/she sounds very nervous. My advice for today: Don't commit crimes and you wouldn't be in this position, worried about a verdict deciding your fate. IMO

 

[njgolden1120]

I've been following this since the beginning but admit I slacked for a bit while going back to college. I just recently have been trying to catch up. The last 2 days have been reading here and trying to study for finals. My question is where are the videos for him buying a pregnancy test and calling from payphone. I've looked back and I can't seem to find them. Today I need to study but I know I will be here more than the books. Hope the family can get some justice soon....

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