Mitigation: Ineffective Assistance of Counsel

[burningsky22]

not sure if it's been said, but anyone think baez line of questioning is to confuse the jury and hope for a mistrial? ie bouncing all over the place with questions.

 

[cluciano63]

not sure if it's been said, but anyone think baez line of questioning is to confuse the jury and hope for a mistrial? ie bouncing all over the place with questions.

Mistrials are hard to come by, during the trial, but if you mean a hung jury and having to do it all over again, that is always possible...

I am often surprised that 12 people can agree on anything, ever...

 

[burningsky22]

Mistrials are hard to come by, during the trial, but if you mean a hung jury and having to do it all over again, that is always possible...

I am often surprised that 12 people can agree on anything, ever...

yeah hung jury, i was on the phone when typing. i mean he can't be that bad of an attorney. shifty? shystie? and from the words of his client, absolutely.

 

[MDdetective]

No. JB's enormous ego would never allow him to use ineffective council as a defense, IMO.

He signed on for the fame and fortune he thought would come his way. He is in WAY over his head and I think there's a good possibility that this case could have to be re-tried because of ineffective council. But not because he's doing it on purpose.

And just for fun and because it can't be watched enough, catch HHJP's reaction to JB's ineptness here at @ 8:55. My very favorite moment in the proceedings to date. :floorlaugh:

ETA link:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28048674/index.html

bbm
You are reading my mind. I agree with your whole post especially the bold. Besides if he's thinking that could cause a mistrial he should look to his right, Mason has a lot of years of experience. I think she has proper council. She's just TOO guilty
jm:twocents:

 

[Nikki 01]

I don't believe any defense attorney intentionally goes for ineffective defense. To me that is saying they are intentionally throwing the case so it can be re-tried on appeal. Doesn't make sense.

I simply believe JB really is that ineffective. He is inexperienced and just isn't that good of a legal mind. I also think he is an opportunist who saw dollar signs with such a high profile case.


Mason, to me, comes across as a good and well respected attorney who probably would serve the defendant so much better, but there is no way JB would step aside from what he sees as his moment of glory.

 

[DairyGirl]

I tend to agree. After being exposed to CA and her many absurd tales for several years, the OS might have been the least insane one. No wonder several experienced attorneys hightailed out over time.
Actually, CA is not even a clever liar, since so many of her tales had absolutely no substance ( nothing to even latch onto) and were quickly exposed as lies. They were generally only good for a few hours.

Except to her mother, who was her primary audience. She bought every ridiculous story hook, line and sinker. Do you think part of her grief is that she is finally realizing how much of a sucker she was? So many people tried to tell her and she refused to see the truth. I am thinking back to the emails between her and her brother. He told her there was no nanny and she threatened to go there and kick is a$$.

 

[Nikki 01]

Except to her mother, who was her primary audience. She bought every ridiculous story hook, line and sinker. Do you think part of her grief is that she is finally realizing how much of a sucker she was? So many people tried to tell her and she refused to see the truth. I am thinking back to the emails between her and her brother. He told her there was no nanny and she threatened to go there and kick is a$$.

I think so. I think there has to be some guilt there because she so readily bought Casey's lies over the years and enabled her. I'm sure she has to wonder would they be here today if she handled things the way George would have.

Also the defense is trying to use her and George's denial against them which has to be humiliating.

 

[4Jacy]

Atty. JB has really defined b.f. He has tried to destroy so many lives. He isn't even effective in defending KC, he is considered a showman and a (et. al.) So sad for so many people who were only trying to make a beautiful, wonderful life for little Caylee.

 

[shgrbkr]

Not on purpose. I think they just cannot help themselves.

 

[TwiceIrish]

I think a better question is...How would YOU defend her if you were a defense atty? Since she was out partying and shopping in those 31 days and is constantly caught on camera and in photos, you really are pretty much stuck with a defense of "she already knew her baby was dead." Then from there you have to go with a "everyone grieves differently response, but her response was SOOOO different, so psycho, you'd have to come up with an excuse for that as well. I really don't see any way out of it. What would you come up with? The only other thing I can come up with to save her would be she is mentally retarded. lol

I would have done everything in my power to encourage her to take plea out.

 

[krt]

I think a better question is...How would YOU defend her if you were a defense atty? Since she was out partying and shopping in those 31 days and is constantly caught on camera and in photos, you really are pretty much stuck with a defense of "she already knew her baby was dead." Then from there you have to go with a "everyone grieves differently response, but her response was SOOOO different, so psycho, you'd have to come up with an excuse for that as well. I really don't see any way out of it. What would you come up with? The only other thing I can come up with to save her would be she is mentally retarded. lol

Easy, you make her plea bargain and if she won't you approach someone or have someone plant the seed that she is not comp. to make her own decisions and have her family on her behalf.....(IF legally feasible)

Say do you want the needle or life in prison without the chance of parole? You are an obvious sociopath that EVEN if there is a 1/16th drop of truth to your antics.....based on your 8 thousand imaginary friends, your lack of any type of remote remorse, and ridiculous/outlandish accusations.

 

[krt]

I don't believe any defense attorney intentionally goes for ineffective defense. To me that is saying they are intentionally throwing the case so it can be re-tried on appeal. Doesn't make sense.

I simply believe JB really is that ineffective. He is inexperienced and just isn't that good of a legal mind. I also think he is an opportunist who saw dollar signs with such a high profile case.


Mason, to me, comes across as a good and well respected attorney who probably would serve the defendant so much better, but there is no way JB would step aside from what he sees as his moment of glory.

How on Earth can mason be considered a well-respected attny? I don't get that....(not being confrontational) He specifically stated "this old bird doesn't want to work on Monday" yet he feels like a grandfather to ica and thinks she's innocent yet has let her stay over 2 yrs in prison for a crime she hasn't committed? :waitasec:

 

[Cassata11]

I really wonder I believe they maybe personally. Is it even plausible? or Would they risk being disbarred?

I voted no, only because JB is not that intelligent. I think, in his peasized brain, his line of questioning makes sense. The problem is, he is constantly being told to change his direction, so he never actually gets to a valid point.

I have watched many trials, and he is the worst I have seen. In all my years, I never had to shut off the tv, or now streaming live coverage because of of a cross.

I said it in the WS chat, and I will say it again. Baez the Clown makes Geragross look like a saint.

 

[Chanler]

In cases like this, where the prosecution evidence seems to be overwhelming, one has few options. In some such trials, you can simply argue that there is only circumstantial evidence, but in this case, Casey's only intricate, protracted cover-up make that impossible. That leaves defense lawyers with one more possibility: Construct an overall counter-theory with enough "a little bit of this, a little bit of that" patchwork parts to attract individual jurors' imaginations.

Remember: There's no reason in a case like this not to begin your groundwork for the penalty phase.

 

[Cassata11]

(snip) Remember: There's no reason in a case like this not to begin your groundwork for the penalty phase.

Now, this statement gives me a little hope. Is it possible that JB and the Barnum and Bailey circus were told there is not one way to clear his client, so let's save her life.

It would make sense that Casey would testify then. Let the jury see how mentally ill, and disturbed ICA is, and hope someone will feel pity to spare her life.

I am going to side track just a little...

As a daughter, who has a daughter, I know Cindy, and George probably enabled ICA for 20 plus years. If you spoil your child, coddle, allow the lies, and refuse to discipline, this is what you COULD get. ICA was adult on paper, but saw her "freedom" much like an 18 year old does. "Leave me alone, you can't control me, I am 18!") Where does it end??

I am not saying all spoiled kids murder. I am saying in this case, if I was a juror that just convicted her for murder, I might have pity on her parents trying to be more of a "friend", than parents that set the rules. My daughter is only 20, and pays her own cell phone, gym membership, car insurance, tags for the car. If I just kept handing to her, why would she want to "grow up".

Life was one huge party for ICA. Life was one big lie. Someone mentioned in chat earlier, that she couldn't have her friends meet her parents, or other social groups, because the lies wouldn't add up.

So JB and clowns might very well be trying to save her life by conceding the win, and hoping for the penalty phase. Most of ICA's friends saw the loving act with Caylee. And testified that mom and daughter were cute and attentive towards each other. I don't know if that would be enough to save her life, but it surely raises questions to motive.

 

[Solomisskitty]

No. JB's enormous ego would never allow him to use ineffective council as a defense, IMO.

He signed on for the fame and fortune he thought would come his way. He is in WAY over his head and I think there's a good possibility that this case could have to be re-tried because of ineffective council. But not because he's doing it on purpose.

And just for fun and because it can't be watched enough, catch HHJP's reaction to JB's ineptness here at @ 8:55. My very favorite moment in the proceedings to date. :floorlaugh:

ETA link:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28048674/index.html

Thanks for pointing this out. Had to watch 2x's! It's worthy of it's own thread..."HHJP Moments".

 

[coloradoteacher]

JB *thinks* he is creating reasonable doubt and I do not think he is trying to go for ineffective counsel, especially if he plans on working again in the United States as an atty.
BUT... I saw Geragos' name mentioned here and during the Scott Peterson trial, I remember getting this horrible sinking feeling that Geragos realized, probably at the beginning of the trial, just what evil he was working with and gave up the will to defend him. It was pretty darn obvious when he started to not even show up. I think this is what CM is doing.. They are shocked at the evil and are too invested or big headed to back out.
As for JB, I think his reasonable doubt is being protrayed to the jury as "he thinks we're a bunch of hicks from out of town that he can bamboozle with fancy psychobabble" and juries just hate that .

 

[faefrost]

I don't think JB is doing this intentionally. I think he is still seeing himself as Aticus Finch out there making an argument, fighting for his client.

But I think everyone is giving far far far too much credence to any possibility of a successful ineffective council appeal. Ineffective Council is a nearly impossible appeal to pull off. It takes something more than simply having a lousy attorney or an attorney who employs a bad or unsuccessful strategy. It requires something truly beyond the pale. A drunk or substance abusing attorney. An attorney who does not pursue the case or file any motion or take any actions in support of his client. And even then it almost always requires that the ineffective council be court appointed and not someone that the client has hiring / firing privileges over. The courts have the reasonable expectation that defendants make informed judgement regarding their representation. KC has been present in every court hearing. Has signed off on every filing. This is the team she chose to take to trial. she had every opportunity to choose otherwise. About her only chance of an innefective council appeal would be if CM were to suddenly be diagnosed with late stage Alzheimer's.

 

[nitasch]

Great question! I am on late, have not read all the posts, pardon me if this is a repeat of someone elses prior thoughts.

You really have to wonder... My first answer is "No" this is a high profile career making case for JB, why would he want to ruin that?

Maybe it is just rookie status, and I guess it will depend on the ruling in the AM regarding the Huggins DT argument.... but, opening the defense up to credibility issues with his questioning of SA witnesses, sure did open the door for an appeal with new atty's to claim inneffective counsel, which feels pretty suspect.

I don't believe they want anything blatent in the eyes of the public, but JB really really messed up with his cross in the past few days.... makes one consider that since CA did not buy into the "at all cost" memo.. they did not have a chance...so go for the appeal.

 

[Friday]

IF I didn't think Casey is guilty and deserves LWOP or the DS, I would be APPALLED that no image consultant worked with her for months. She could have been taught to be demure, to not shake her head. They could have held mock trials and watched her " tics" and coached her out of them. People do it every day for tons of money.
She could have had a flattering soft hair cut, feminine clothing, soft makeup. All the things that have been done for other Monster Mommies..
But no one did a thing for this WITCH. Is that ineffective counsel or did she insist on being raw and abrasive? I guess we will never know the truth because it would come from either Baez or ICA and we know, when their mouths are moving, they are lying.

In any case, she has a lead defense attorney which SHE chose, who is totally inept, and she LOOKS like she would kill anyone in the court room at a moment's notice.. Glowering and pouting and almost blowing steam out her ears.

A totally indefensible person in so many aspects, from cursory glance to the knowledge of the case facts.. Just OMG, what a destruction of a totally dysfunctional family unit, beginning with poor little Caylee's life of neglect and abuse at the hands of her mother. Casey no more wanted that child than my dogs want a pet cat!!![

:floorlaugh: "...than my dogs want a pet cat:" :floorlaugh:

Until the trial is over, I'm nervous about pronouncing JB a loser (although I think hie is one), however, I gotta wonder about this: He's busily portraying ICA as a pathetic, traumatized victim who habitually invents a happy, happy reality, replete with all sorts of details, and populated with fictional people, so she can survive in the big bad world.

So just how does JB plan to deal with those jail tapes with Cindy and George, where Casey comes off like a vicious, vindictive, unfeeling narcissistic you-know-what.