GUILTY MN - Daunte Wright, 20, fatally shot by police during traffic stop, Brooklyn Center, Apr 2021 #2

[nightowl1975]

This debate about charging people in the medical field is interesting debate but needs it's own thread.I feel like it takes away from discussing this case JMO

Specific to this case, it is my opinion that if we want to hold police to a standard of never making a mistake that costs someone their life without going to prison, we should be prepared for losing a significant number of good men and women from our police forces who aren’t willing to take this risk. It is also my opinion that we have no right to then whine and complain when there aren’t adequate numbers of law enforcement officers to protect the public. We shouldn’t, in general, expect police officers to risk prison for human error that happens occasionally regardless of how diligent and careful one may be. I personally feel officers should receive the same grace we generally extend to other professionals.

I will also add that I find it intriguing that the medical professional example suddenly “needs its own thread” when the question posed seemed pretty simple and straightforward IMO.

 

[worm]

So do you believe we should be criminally charging medical professionals who make fatal mistakes with patients? I’m honestly trying to figure out how we, as a society, have arrived in a place where killing someone by mistake in a professional capacity is a crime depending on which profession you’re in.

Criminally responsible? I’ve seen firsthand medical errors that cost someone their life from negligence. Professional licenses lost, malpractice suits settled out of court because it was obvious how a trial would go, but the thought of criminal liability for medical malpractice? No.

According to a stat that I could find at nchi.gov, some 85 doctors have been charged with manslaughter since 1800 with some 60 being acquitted. It notes a dramatic increase of this since 1990. I know I’ve seen boat captains, pilots, several types of contractors, pro drivers of all sorts, all be held liable for incidents resulting in death.

 

[Apollo]

According to a stat that I could find at nchi.gov, some 85 doctors have been charged with manslaughter since 1800 with some 60 being acquitted. It notes a dramatic increase of this since 1990. I know I’ve seen boat captains, pilots, several types of contractors, pro drivers of all sorts, all be held liable for incidents resulting in death.

Do you happen to have the statistics on how many police officers have been charged and how many have been convicted for shooting a suspect? Also, the year the first case was prosecuted? TIA

 

[worm]

Do you happen to have the statistics on how many police officers have been charged and how many have been convicted for shooting a suspect? Also, the year the first case was prosecuted? TIA

11 for manslaughter, 6 for involuntary, which is probably where this case fits, from 05 to 20.

 

[worm]

Contrast this case with the Truck driver in Colorado who just caught 110 years for mistakes made that cost lives in an accident. No booze, no drugs, no ill intent found. People are often held with criminal liability in traffic accidents like this where mistakes are made.

 

[nightowl1975]

Contrast this case with the Truck driver in Colorado who just caught 110 years for mistakes made that cost lives in an accident. No booze, no drugs, no ill intent found. People are often held with criminal liability in traffic accidents like this where mistakes are made.

I thought that was a fairly extreme sentence for an accident that didn’t involve drugs or alcohol. Then I watched the video footage and it made more sense. He quite clearly was driving wrecklessly, way way faster than any vehicles around him. So in my mind, a conscious choice was made to drive that way. In this case, no conscious choice was made to use a gun.

I’m honestly beginning to wonder if we should question whether or not police should carry tasers at all. Are more lives saved by officers carrying both and having access to less lethal means of subduing subjects than are lost due to mix ups like this one?

 

[worm]

I thought that was a fairly extreme sentence for an accident that didn’t involve drugs or alcohol. Then I watched the video footage and it made more sense. He quite clearly was driving wrecklessly, way way faster than any vehicles around him. So in my mind, a conscious choice was made to drive that way. In this case, no conscious choice was made to use a gun.

I’m honestly beginning to wonder if we should question whether or not police should carry tasers at all. Are more lives saved by officers carrying both and having access to less lethal means of subduing subjects than are lost due to mix ups like this one?

But mix ups can’t be the standard. I’m all for the less lethal means of force and thought we were on to something with the rubber bullets and bean bag guns. Painful but no death. This lady clearly made the choice to draw a weapon and the fact that it was wrong cost a life. I don’t think this officer deserves the book being thrown at her but it shouldnt be excused either.

 

[nightowl1975]

But mix ups can’t be the standard. I’m all for the less lethal means of force and thought we were on to something with the rubber bullets and bean bag guns. Painful but no death. This lady clearly made the choice to draw a weapon and the fact that it was wrong cost a life. I don’t think this officer deserves the book being thrown at her but it shouldnt be excused either.

In my mind, her losing her career is punishment enough. I think. It’s a tough case. How long do you think she should go to prison?

 

[Apollo]

I thought that was a fairly extreme sentence for an accident that didn’t involve drugs or alcohol. Then I watched the video footage and it made more sense. He quite clearly was driving wrecklessly, way way faster than any vehicles around him. So in my mind, a conscious choice was made to drive that way. In this case, no conscious choice was made to use a gun.

I’m honestly beginning to wonder if we should question whether or not police should carry tasers at all. Are more lives saved by officers carrying both and having access to less lethal means of subduing subjects than are lost due to mix ups like this one?

How many times has a mix up like this happened (if you know). I can think of one other time but I think that involved a volunteer police officer. Any other instances like this one? Some police officer or supervisor who testified in this trial, said he didn't know of any other times this had ever happened.

 

[worm]

In my mind, her losing her career is punishment enough. I think. It’s a tough case. How long do you think she should go to prison?

I dont know that prison is even the answer given that she has no criminal record or -I think I heard today- that she doesn’t have any kind of discipline problems at her job. I have a lot of sympathy for her since one of my greatest fears is having to use force to defend myself and living with that. I agree, it’s a tough situation. I even lean with her a bit because this man was in a car that could be driven, as a weapon, if he wanted. I would feel much better about her getting off light had she pled it to something.

 

[Marysmith]

How many times has a mix up like this happened (if you know). I can think of one other time but I think that involved a volunteer police officer. Any other instances like this one? Some police officer or supervisor who testified in this trial, said he didn't know of any other times this had ever happened.

There are body cams now too that were used… I’m not defending anything but I do think this was a horrible mistake.
I’m a nurse and have seen horrible mistakes myself made by medical professionals… again not defending anyone or calling anyone out.
We can try and mitigate the chances of errors in all systems but there will always be errors. And when we change the system again an error will happen that will change the system again to prevent more.

 

[Marysmith]

I dont know that prison is even the answer given that she has no criminal record or -I think I heard today- that she doesn’t have any kind of discipline problems at her job. I have a lot of sympathy for her since one of my greatest fears is having to use force to defend myself and living with that. I agree, it’s a tough situation. I even lean with her a bit because this man was in a car that could be driven, as a weapon, if he wanted. I would feel much better about her getting off light had she pled it to something.

Totally agree.

 

[worm]

How many times has a mix up like this happened (if you know). I can think of one other time but I think that involved a volunteer police officer. Any other instances like this one? Some police officer or supervisor who testified in this trial, said he didn't know of any other times this had ever happened.

I was just randomly searching earlier and found something that mentioned a couple of instances like this.

Edit to add, sorry for not providing a reference, I was just browsing around.

 

[Apollo]

But mix ups can’t be the standard. I’m all for the less lethal means of force and thought we were on to something with the rubber bullets and bean bag guns. Painful but no death. This lady clearly made the choice to draw a weapon and the fact that it was wrong cost a life. I don’t think this officer deserves the book being thrown at her but it shouldnt be excused either.

How will 12 jurors ever agree on this? My guess is lengthy deliberations----hung jury.

 

[Recidivist]

How many times has a mix up like this happened (if you know). I can think of one other time but I think that involved a volunteer police officer. Any other instances like this one? Some police officer or supervisor who testified in this trial, said he didn't know of any other times this had ever happened.

Shooting of Oscar Grant

Shooting of Oscar Grant - Wikipedia

In addition to Oscar, it names a few others accidentally shot, thinking it was a taser.

 

[Kaley Smith]

Good point and it goes back to her selective memory, with the “I don’t recall” game being so popular these days. She remembers all these details that support her excuse but conveniently can’t recall anything that may be negative to her case. I think the jury will read that as deceptive.

That's how I read it. Same with her demeanor on the stand with the whimpering and soft spoken replies. I'd find it hard to believe that's how she acted when she was on the force. It came across as acting. That's why I had less sympathy for her after her testimony. Her defense team did a terrible job getting her prepared for trial.[/QUOTE]


Well, you saw her reaction after she shot Wright. That was certainly not acting! If I, who am usually the "throw the book at him/her" type, would go easy on her, my guess is that at least one of the jurors will too.

 

[mickey2942]

In my mind, her losing her career is punishment enough. I think. It’s a tough case. How long do you think she should go to prison?

I don't think that prison is appropriate. I do think that it is time for her to retire. My real concern is that this is more about race. Would we even know this guy's name if he had been white?

That is the real problem here.

 

[MaryFairy]

I don't think that prison is appropriate. I do think that it is time for her to retire. My real concern is that this is more about race. Would we even know this guy's name if he had been white?

That is the real problem here.

Would it have happened to a white guy? Any examples?

 

[worm]

Would it have happened to a white guy? Any examples?

Exactly. Anytime a situation involves race and guns people automatically take sides based on their politics.

 

[fred&edna]

How many times has a mix up like this happened (if you know). I can think of one other time but I think that involved a volunteer police officer. Any other instances like this one? Some police officer or supervisor who testified in this trial, said he didn't know of any other times this had ever happened.

I don't know how many times a mix up like this (taser/gun) has happened but I've read a lot of news stories of police officers being dragged by a motorist fleeing arrest. (Resulting in an officer's death or serious injury). Maybe this is simply comparing apples to oranges, though??