MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 *officers charged* #3

[mickey2942]

They are going to be hard pressed to get away from the fact that Chauvin did not put George on his side. Even when reminded twice by Lane.

Placing the person on their side is the next step in their kneel-on-the-neck protocol. I remember from way back when this first started and we looked up the training/procedures.

They could have kept him down .... on his side ... if injury to themselves/others was a concern.

There was no decision required. Next step, place perp on their side. Follow the procedures you learned in training.

Agreed. And if they also allow in prior bad acts by Chauvin, he is done. And I am pro LEO. If I don't really see a reasonable out here. While trying to keep an open mind, I think that this should have been settled with Chauvin going away for 3rd degree manslaughter. Not unlike former officer Noor.

 

[Lilibet]

I still think that if prior bad acts by the victim are allowed in, Officer Chauvin had reasonable belief that GF was a risk to the safety of other officers and people in the community. He was making sure that GF would not injure anyone. And the time is not that long when you consider the mindset of Officer Chauvin.

I am not defending Officer Chauvin, simply presenting a reasonable defense.

I wonder if Chauvin’s aggressive behavior at the nightclub where he and Floyd worked and elsewhere will be allowed. He seems to have quite a history of overreacting even when there is no realistic need to do so. Almost nine minutes with his knee on Floyd’s neck is not a “reasonable defense” when he should have rolled him on his side IMO.

Charged ex-Mpls. cop used 'overkill' tactics as nightclub guard

'He choked me out': Others detail allegations of abuse by officer who knelt on George Floyd

ETA: I posted this without seeing your post just above, but I’ll let it stand because I think it’s important to emphasize that Chauvin has a history of terrible behavior.

 

[mickey2942]

I wonder if Chauvin’s aggressive behavior at the nightclub where he and Floyd worked and elsewhere will be allowed. He seems to have quite a history of overreacting even when there is no realistic need to do so. Almost nine minutes with his knee on Floyd’s neck is not a “reasonable defense” when he should have rolled him on his side IMO.

Charged ex-Mpls. cop used 'overkill' tactics as nightclub guard

'He choked me out': Others detail allegations of abuse by officer who knelt on George Floyd

ETA: I posted this without seeing your post just above, but I’ll let it stand because I think it’s important to emphasize that Chauvin has a history of terrible behavior.

Agreed. But if Chauvin's "Bad Acts" are allowed in, George Floyd’s extensive criminal history, drug use, and incarcerations/interactions with LEO should also be allowed.

All things being equal. Neither Chauvin or Floyd are/were upstanding citizens.

It is interesting how the IRS has now been investigating Chauvin, he has an extensive history of tax evasion, deception, and lack of truthfulness/integrity. This alone will completely destroy any credibility if he testifies, which I don't see happening.

 

[Lilibet]

Agreed. But if Chauvin's "Bad Acts" are allowed in, George Floyd’s extensive criminal history, drug use, and incarcerations/interactions with LEO should also be allowed.

All things being equal. Neither Chauvin or Floyd are/were upstanding citizens.

It is interesting how the IRS has now been investigating Chauvin, he has an extensive history of tax evasion, deception, and lack of truthfulness/integrity. This alone will completely destroy any credibility if he testifies, which I don't see happening.

@mickey2942 my post was in response to your post discussing the possibility that Floyd’s criminal history may have influenced Chauvin to think that Floyd was a risk to other officers and the community. My point was that if the defense introduces Floyd’s criminal history as a reason Chauvin felt he was dangerous and needed to be restrained in this way they should expect Chauvin’s history of aggression in other situations to be presented to the jury. I think we are going in circles here. I agree that neither one was an upstanding citizen. I do, however, think it’s reasonable to hold a police officer to a higher standard of conduct and expect him to use the least amount of restraint needed (i.e. roll Floyd on his side). Chauvin would be a fool to take the stand given his IRS history. He may just be arrogant enough to insist though.
JMO

 

[Weki]

I believe if Chauvin takes the stand all his prior bad acts or any complaints against him would come in as a credibility issue. He would be stupid to take the stand but we know how stupid defendants can be. I think Nelson would threaten to quit if Chauvin insisted. Him taking the stand would be great from a spectator point of view though.

 

[SouthAussie]

Many witnesses are expected to testify, including Minneapolis police chief Medaria Arradondo, county medical examiner, Dr. Andrew Baker, and Darnella Frazier, the teenager who filmed Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck. There will also likely be a number of expert witnesses testifying for both the prosecution and the defense.

Earlier this month, the prosecution announced plans to include some of Floyd’s friends and family members as “spark of life” witnesses. The state of Minnesota allows for this kind of testimony to humanize a crime victim for a jury.

When a police officer’s actions have left the other individual (or individuals) dead, there is often little evidence to challenge the officer’s perspective. Floyd’s case is noteworthy, among other reasons, for the footage shot by Frazier—and for material captured by other officers’ body cameras .....

Derek Chauvin Trial Set to Begin Over the Death of George Floyd

 

[SouthAussie]

This won’t be an open-and-shut case, according to legal experts who spoke to Yahoo News about the trial. Schultz, who also teaches at Hamline University in St. Paul, Minn., estimated that the trial could take at least a month, including one to two weeks for jury deliberations, depending on the amount of witnesses, evidence, etc.

Floyd’s family commissioned two independent examiners to conduct a separate autopsy, according to the family’s attorneys. Their findings concluded that Floyd died from asphyxiation from sustained pressure.

The death of Floyd, a Black man, beneath the knee of a white officer also raises the question of how race will factor into the trial.

Sommers added that a diverse jury doesn’t guarantee a certain outcome. “But having a racially diverse jury does at least increase the probability of multiple perspectives being considered during deliberations,” he said.

What to watch for as Derek Chauvin's trial for the killing of George Floyd gets underway

 

[Niner]

snipped by me...

But for others, please check so you don't get hit with a bill that I did years ago. Some YouTube channels that stream allow to have low resolution... perhaps that would help if some folks are limited? Dunno... just thought I would throw this to the thread as a shout out for others.

I'm in Europe - do you think I will be getting to see the trial "live" - finally got my speakers fixed - so I'm ready!!

If you find anything broadcast in Europe - please post link! I do want to watch this one! And I'll also take on Cathy's tweets for the trial....

Oh - another question - Don't know "who" the Mod is on this case but if anyone know - can you ask if we are going to have a thread for EACH TRIAL DAY?? I hope so - much easier to find stuff if anyone has to go back on a thread...

I don't believe this article - next post - was posted - at least I did not see it...

coming up!

 

[Niner]

With jury set, opening arguments Monday are next in Derek Chauvin trial

March 23, 2021
Spare member chosen to hedge bet for opening day of Derek Chauvin's trial.


The final juror was selected Tuesday in the trial of fired Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd.

Court is now in recess until 9 a.m. Monday, when opening statements will be made by both sides. The fourth jury candidate interviewed Tuesday was the 15th and final juror chosen. But the juror, a recently married white male accountant in his 20s, will be dropped from the panel if the first 14 show up for duty at the heavily guarded downtown Minneapolis courthouse.

Hennepin County District Judge Peter Cahill, who is presiding, said he will keep 14 jurors, including two alternates, for the trial expected to last a month. Spacing requirements in the courtroom because of the COVID-19 pandemic don't allow for additional alternates.

At the conclusion of the trial, the two alternates will be dismissed and a dozen jurors will deliberate to see whether they can reach unanimous agreement on the three criminal counts Chauvin faces.

 

[Legally Bland]

@Niner hope your recovery is going well.

Law and Crime showed jury selection live on their YT channel so hopefully they'll show the trial too.

https://www.youtube.com/c/LawCrimeNetwork/videos

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I'm in Europe - do you think I will be getting to see the trial "live" - finally got my speakers fixed - so I'm ready!!

If you find anything broadcast in Europe - please post link! I do want to watch this one! And I'll also take on Cathy's tweets for the trial....

Oh - another question - Don't know "who" the Mod is on this case but if anyone know - can you ask if we are going to have a thread for EACH TRIAL DAY?? I hope so - much easier to find stuff if anyone has to go back on a thread...

I don't believe this article - next post - was posted - at least I did not see it...

coming up!

Happy to see you back at it @Niner

 

[dixiegirl1035]

This won’t be an open-and-shut case, according to legal experts who spoke to Yahoo News about the trial. Schultz, who also teaches at Hamline University in St. Paul, Minn., estimated that the trial could take at least a month, including one to two weeks for jury deliberations, depending on the amount of witnesses, evidence, etc.

Floyd’s family commissioned two independent examiners to conduct a separate autopsy, according to the family’s attorneys. Their findings concluded that Floyd died from asphyxiation from sustained pressure.

The death of Floyd, a Black man, beneath the knee of a white officer also raises the question of how race will factor into the trial.

Sommers added that a diverse jury doesn’t guarantee a certain outcome. “But having a racially diverse jury does at least increase the probability of multiple perspectives being considered during deliberations,” he said.

What to watch for as Derek Chauvin's trial for the killing of George Floyd gets underway

As I said before, still drinking in information.. and trying to determine facts.

Did shutting off the blood flow on neck artery restrict too much (with airway, only Chauvin) cause such.. or not being able to breathe due to others on his back contributed ... or both together for heart attack etc.... and what affect does this have on the verdict of the THREE potential charges.

Still on fence for which charge, and will be here with others to work through my indecision through discussions as we go along. As noted before, I've hopped on one side of the fence to the other... still not having a conviction and strong belief on which is the highest charge I would give as a juror.

Notwithstanding all the above, did he, as the most senior person have more responsibility and contributes to charges for such when told by Lane x2 to turn him on side.

MOO defense will try to share the blame on others... and diffuse MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm in Europe - do you think I will be getting to see the trial "live" - finally got my speakers fixed - so I'm ready!!

If you find anything broadcast in Europe - please post link! I do want to watch this one! And I'll also take on Cathy's tweets for the trial....

Oh - another question - Don't know "who" the Mod is on this case but if anyone know - can you ask if we are going to have a thread for EACH TRIAL DAY?? I hope so - much easier to find stuff if anyone has to go back on a thread...

I don't believe this article - next post - was posted - at least I did not see it...

coming up!

We are at post 933 now, and usually mods do a new one at 1,000. I'll alert my post to ask mods as to what you are asking for... and perhaps others may also. I do believe for day #1 we will have a shiny new thread as it meets the 1,000 requirement for a new thread. MOO

So glad your surgery went well and your are back home

Off to alert Mods to make decision on how they want to handle the case. Good point for a major case to have daily threads... up to mods as they are experienced in knowing how to handle and which way to go. Good point that we have a new thread when opening statements are made this Monday to begin such.

ETA: Yes, I believe there will be YouTubes which will allow worldwide... I know I , at least, will be looking for and posting such 30 minutes prior to trial as the news feeds aren't as good as YouTubes MOO

@Sillybilly @JerseyGirl

 

[mickey2942]

How to Watch: Court TV's Live Coverage of MN v. Derek Chauvin - Court TV

Looks like CourtTv will be showing the entire trial.

 

[Niner]

Thanks for all the info on "where" I can watch the trial! Hopefully, someone will post ALL those links on the day the trial starts! LOL!

 

[MsBetsy]

As I said before, still drinking in information.. and trying to determine facts.

Did shutting off the blood flow on neck artery restrict too much (with airway, only Chauvin) cause such.. or not being able to breathe due to others on his back contributed ... or both together for heart attack etc.... and what affect does this have on the verdict of the THREE potential charges.

Still on fence for which charge, and will be here with others to work through my indecision through discussions as we go along. As noted before, I've hopped on one side of the fence to the other... still not having a conviction and strong belief on which is the highest charge I would give as a juror.

Notwithstanding all the above, did he, as the most senior person have more responsibility and contributes to charges for such when told by Lane x2 to turn him on side.

MOO defense will try to share the blame on others... and diffuse MOO

I wonder if the jury will have access to the arrest documents. It was stated that one of the officers eventually did check Floyd's pulse, found he had none, and Chauvin continued to kneel on Floyd's neck for another 2 or 3 minutes. At that point I would have expected them to immediately attempt to resuscitate him, but Chauvin just kept restricting his airways even after the guy (who repeated over and over, he's not even breathing,) finally said, "you just killed him, dude," or something like that.

To me that points to intent. It was as if he was trying to make sure he was dead, even after Floyd wasn't showing any signs of life and wasn't a threat.

I suppose it will all come down to cause of death. I don't see how they will ever be able to prove he would have died anyway if he had recieved medical attention, or that he would have lived if he hadn't had his kneck kneeled on for eight minutes.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

RSBM I suppose it will all come down to cause of death. I don't see how they will ever be able to prove he would have died anyway if he had recieved medical attention, or that he would have lived if he hadn't had his kneck kneeled on for eight minutes.

Jury instructions will be so very important MOO. We have a nurse on the jury, so we shall see. I don't recall that it is needed that they need to PROVE he could have survived.

This case is one which my a$$ is raw from jumping over the fence back and forth as to which charge iykwim.

When shiny new thread starts, perhaps one here can do a MSM of how to differ on the 3 charges. It's not just GUILTY.. if that is the MOO... but which charge is he perhaps going to be (WS... we are not in court, we are not a juror) guilty of... if any (*shivers* if no charges found at this time).

We shall wait..

 

[MsBetsy]

Jury instructions will be so very important MOO. We have a nurse on the jury, so we shall see. I don't recall that it is needed that they need to PROVE he could have survived.

This case is one which my a$$ is raw from jumping over the fence back and forth as to which charge iykwim.

When shiny new thread starts, perhaps one here can do a MSM of how to differ on the 3 charges. It's not just GUILTY.. if that is the MOO... but which charge is he perhaps going to be (WS... we are not in court, we are not a juror) guilty of... if any (*shivers* if no charges found at this time).

We shall wait..

Well, that's what I mean. There is no way to know or "prove" that Floyd died from a drug overdose, so I'm not sure how the defense will convince a jury that Chauvin's actions did not directly lead to or contribute to his death.

They don't necessarily need to prove intent, either. Second degree murder can be intentional or unintentional, but the prosecution will have to prove that Chauvin killed him while committing a felony. (assault)

Third degree murder would apply if the death was caused by a reckless act which put others in eminent danger. I'm still not sure why the prosecution wanted to add that. I know they said it was to ensure a murder conviction, but I don't know that others lives were in danger as a result of his actions.

Second degree manslaughter is when someone, without malice or premeditation, causes another's death through negligence or a reckless act and knowingly risks causing serious harm or death.

At least that's how I understand the charges.

If he is convicted of manslaughter he will likely serve less than five years. Maybe that's why the prosecution wanted to add third degree murder.

Imo

 

[Weki]

I think defense is hoping for an acquittal on the murder charges and a hung jury on the manslaughter charge. Because there is no way to get around those 9 minutes with your knee on his neck! IMO. No way around it! There is also no way defense can say ‘oh he would’ve died even if the knee wasn’t on the neck.’ How can a doctor say he would’ve died regardless? With any kind of scientific certainty? That makes no sense to me.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Oh - another question - Don't know "who" the Mod is on this case but if anyone know - can you ask if we are going to have a thread for EACH TRIAL DAY?? I hope so - much easier to find stuff if anyone has to go back on a thread...

I don't believe this article - next post - was posted - at least I did not see it...

coming up!

I will make a new thread late tomorrow night or early Monday for the trial and we’ll see about opening up a thread for each day or every other day. Keep tagging me or send me a PM. Thanks.