MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #14

[cGorg]

Using a portable police scanner to listen in on cordless telephones?

It's been alluded to before.

 

[Kell1]

I wish this was hyperbole on my behalf. But, I surmise that you aren't familiar with Stearns County.

1) St. John's University had long served as a repository for pedophile religious. They have a locked unit where--at anytime--between 10-40 pedophile religious. Mind you Jacob went missing in 1989, before the priest abuse scandal.
2) St. John preparatory school/seminary has some of the largest figures of sex abuse in the country.
3) Stearns county has a syndrome named after it, for the highest incidence of incest in a first world country.
4) One active pedophile, MF, was within a mile of the crime scene but was molesting or grooming another child. DAH has also used the alibi that he was molesting another child. This is the only case I am aware of where two of the main suspects ADMIT to sexually molesting other people as there alibi.
5) Diocesan parish priests in the area were also pedophiles.
6) halfway houses for pedophiles existed within a few miles.

I am probably missing some part of this scene in the late 80's.

The interesting part of all of these pedophiles is that they were all so successful as groomers. Why change your MO when you are so successful? DAH admits to 40-50 kids by giving them alcohol.

I think your profile points towards DR.

Not Familiar with it at all to be honest, however with that many in one area the fact that there weren't SCORES of assaults lends some credence to the data concerning such individuals.

I'm also stunned this case wasn't solved if they have that many potential suspects in the vicinity.

Most analysis's don't want is a list of suspects, when a case is reviewed they usually ask for crime scene reports, crime scene photographs, a list of the protocols used by the medical examiner during autopsy , and the autopsy findings .

A profile will almost never list suspects it denotes characteristics of the offender based on behavior , from there you apply the behaviors and investigative considerations to a suspect pool if you have one.

As I've said earlier , this isn't a Seductive pedophile I'm fairly certain of what type this is involved in this case.

 

[chaplain1]

The major assumption of the investigation I question is whether the perp had to be very familiar with the local landscape. If a car could have been hidden, I think it was a roaming unskilled laborer.

 

[cGorg]

The major assumption of the investigation I question is whether the perp had to be very familiar with the local landscape. If a car could have been hidden, I think it was a roaming unskilled laborer.

Really? Why do you think that? You just stated in post #800 that RichKelly's profile of the alleged abductor fits DR. DR would be very familiar with the landscape....I don't understand your post.

 

[cGorg]

Not Familiar with it at all to be honest, however with that many in one area the fact that there weren't SCORES of assaults lends some credence to the data concerning such individuals.

I'm also stunned this case wasn't solved if they have that many potential suspects in the vicinity.

Most analysis's don't want is a list of suspects, when a case is reviewed they usually ask for crime scene reports, crime scene photographs, a list of the protocols used by the medical examiner during autopsy , and the autopsy findings .

A profile will almost never list suspects it denotes characteristics of the offender based on behavior , from there you apply the behaviors and investigative considerations to a suspect pool if you have one.

As I've said earlier , this isn't a Seductive pedophile I'm fairly certain of what type this is involved in this case.

OK...so it isn't the Seductive type....can you narrow it down between the Introverted type and the Sadistic type?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Not Familiar with it at all to be honest, however with that many in one area the fact that there weren't SCORES of assaults lends some credence to the data concerning such individuals.

I'm also stunned this case wasn't solved if they have that many potential suspects in the vicinity.

Most analysis's don't want is a list of suspects, when a case is reviewed they usually ask for crime scene reports, crime scene photographs, a list of the protocols used by the medical examiner during autopsy , and the autopsy findings .

A profile will almost never list suspects it denotes characteristics of the offender based on behavior , from there you apply the behaviors and investigative considerations to a suspect pool if you have one.

As I've said earlier , this isn't a Seductive pedophile I'm fairly certain of what type this is involved in this case.

RichKelly,

I see you are verified law enforcement. What does it mean to you that a POI was publically named for the first time 21 years after the abduction?

 

[cGorg]

FBI Surveillance Van

What kind of moniker is that? Isn't this case difficult enough?

 

[FBI Surveillance Van]

About the perp-laying-in-wait/possible earlier day driveby in the Rassiers driveway

I see a few options:
1. Someone who knew/believed all Rassiers were away on vacation and thought they could use the property as an area for committing some kind of crime
2. Someone staking out the boy scouts camping in the area that weekend
3. Someone staking out the party spot in the area that weekend
4. Someone staking out the Del Win/polka gathering in the area that weekend

Perhaps the perp had NO CLUE Jacob and friends would be passing by- perhaps the perp was simply hoping for a combination of 1-4 variables (or more possibilities) and got "lucky" when Jacob and company passed by

Also, most schools were out that Monday, so the traffic in the area is a bit more understandable.

Just my thoughts

"STALKING THEORY" of JW abduction that consolidates:
1) DR seeing car doing powerturn in his driveway that afternoon.
2) Abductor having targeted JW sometime PRIOR to the evening bike trip to the Tom Thumb,
and yet getting so "lucky" by being in position when he did.

Someone staking out the Boy Scouts camping in the area that weekend.(Saturday)

I believe that Boy Scouts camping that weekend was reported by a fellow classmate of JW. Police sponsored Explorer Program may also have a way to confirm or determine what troop of Boy Scouts were, or were not, camping in the woods there that weekend.

Jacob may have been seen from a distance riding bike in the area there, and watched as to where his home was located.

Programmable scanner would allow eavesdropping on cordless phone calls to/from Wetterling household,
provided that it was within range.
(Someone should please try and confirm whether or not they did indeed have a cordless phone at that time).

Stakeout (in this cordless phone scenario) might have been past DR driveway on 16th ave., and much closer to JW home to provide a cordless phone intercept.

When Dad and boys went to hockey tryouts Sunday afternoon, the abductor's car could have been positioned between their house and DR's driveway (spying/eavesdropping), and would need to move quickly up 16th ave. to avoid detection, and then turn right onto DR driveway and drive down out of site of 16th to the farmhouse, do a fast powerturn before they got too far ahead, so as to follow them to the St.Cloud hockey rink. (This would coincide with the ~MonteCarlo? vehicle seen by DR that afternoon. Driver was careless about bringing DR's attention to himself, but he doesn't know YET, that he is going to abduct Jacob later that night, and at this very location.

At the rink there might have been a signup sheet which would show Jacob's name and age (11) associated with his address.

The abductor having specific knowledge of Jacob's age, is consistent with the process used later that evening to select him from the other 2 boys.

Eavesdropping phone calls could have provided the explainable "luck" to be there waiting after the parents had left, and when the boys called to get permission to go to the Tom Thumb.

If the abductor was there waiting along the roadway that night, because he was stalking JW, then the ability to intercept the phone call (asking permission to go to the Tom Thumb) would also have been required to justify that wait, because he would have assumed (without the knowledge of the call) that JW was not coming out of his house till after daybreak the next day, and then - why would he be there at all waiting in the dark for nothing?

OPPORTUNISTIC THEORIES:
There is also the scenario that the abductor was there waiting in the dark for a DIFFERENT reason(not directly related to JW), and spotted(an unforeseen event) the boys on their way to or at the Tom Thumb. This is the simpler "opportunistic" theory, which needs no cordless phone intercepts, but unfortunately doesn't explain the high speed driveway car spotted by DR earlier that day. There would also have to be a primary reason OTHER than wanting to abduct a child - for this "opportunistic" child abductor to be there in the first place. And yet, he came prepared along 16th ave. for something...that required a mask and a gun! This person would also have to be very familiar with the area and probably have seen JW previously to know who he was abducting, and where he lived, so as to have any confidence at all in the spot he later picked along 16th ave. return trip for the ambush. When and how did he get all this familiarity? The more I think about this "opportunistic" MO abductor, the more I think he would have to be a pretty darn good "stalker"..... to get this unbelievably "opportunistic".

Nevertheless, there are at least 2 of these that are being presented:

o1) A potential thief having knowledge (Rassier's parents believed to be on vacation) and was staking out the residence for an opportunity to rob it, and changed to plan B (abduct JW) after the boys rode their bikes past on the way to Tom Thumb. Explains presence, with mask and gun, but why not play it safe, and just let the kids ride past? Why was abducting JW suddenly more appealing than the planned robbery? Very unlikely.

o2) A peeper having knowledge that there was a teenage party(Apollo HS class of 1990) in the woods north of Rassier's (parents believed to be on vacation) and was creeping through the woods spying on those teenagers, and changed to plan B (abduct JW) after the boys rode their bikes past on the way to Tom Thumb. This one is more believable, but having the mask and gun handy is way overkill for a peeper (unless he intends to get caught!). The main problem here with switching to planB(abduct JW) is that without a really good look at the kids, and confirming that no adult was present, he wouldn't even consider it. Probably would need to follow them in his vehicle down to Tom Thumb to make sure. The boys DID say that they were passed from behind buy a few vehicles on the way TO the Tom Thumb. So o2) "opportunistic" peeper is possible, but seems uncoordinated, and impulsive. Another problem is that someone favoring 11yr. old boys wouldn't normally care to spend a long/dark/cold/lonely night outdoors peeping on 17-18 yr. old women drinking beer with "their" boyfriends. If it was colder maybe he would have been at a youth hockey rink instead? Mask and gun? No known assaults on "lovers lane" couples in Stearns County that I am aware of. Unlikely, and yet is still possible, mainly because there were so few residences on 16th between the Wetterlings and Tom Thumb, and given the short amount of time (<10min) it would take for the boys to traverse that distance, that maybe NO cars should have passed them from behind, but there were a bunch that did, and driving from behind to get a good look would be consistent with the actions of an "opportunistic" abductor that was initially on that stretch for another reason.

.............

 

[livstabler]

Hypothetically speaking, what if poi was leaving his driveway to go "hunting" for a boy, or returning from an unsuccessful hunt when he saw the boys riding towards Tom Thumb? He already has mask/gun in his car and thinks running into them is a sign that it's his lucky day... So he parks his car half way up the driveway and waits for them to come back... Or maybe he was walking down to his mailbox when he saw them pass, and went back to the house for his nylon ski mask and gun. Maybe he'd tried to subdue JW so he'd be easier to carry and "accidentally" went too far before he even got him back to the house? In my opinion, this wasn't planned specifically, but he'd assaulted before (J?) and had a taste for it, and this "easy" opportunity was too hard to resist. Yes, doing it so close to home was stupid and brazen, but apparently not too much so, since he's gotten away with it for 26 years. Maybe he'd just planned to play with him a while like the "others", but after he had him locked up somewhere and the cops were sniffing around, he realized he'd have to kill him (or it was the aforementioned accidental loss of control). But he still had 5 days to finish and clean up the mess before the property was searched?

I watched one video of him talking about his woodpile almost obsessively (and saw photos) and the hair stood up on the back of my neck so bad, I won't watch another one. Plus the way he was seeking attention and inserting himself into the case after all these years is typical of how sociopaths want credit for their crimes, even though they don't exactly want to be caught and punished. They just want someone to recognize and tell them what a genius they are for executing and getting away with the perfect crime for so long. Total narcissism. Like he said, he didn't want to waste his time (can't remember where I saw the exact quote) that night with the search, but was terribly concerned about his woodpile (hope they searched under that). I don't know how anyone can watch or listen to him without him pinging a million red flags, but just like LE, I sadly have no proof that can convict him.

What is even scarier though is that if this was this perp's first kill, he probably got a taste for it and the high of not being caught wouldn't be enough to last 26 years. JW may have been an accidental escalation from assault (J), but these people don't just escalate once and stop. They need more and more stimulation to feed the monster... Meanwhile poi brags he has run races in 21-22 states since then... I can't accuse him of anything, I'm just saying that if he's as guilty as my gut thinks he is, it's a very scary thought.

 

[chaplain1]

Really? Why do you think that? You just stated in post #800 that RichKelly's profile of the alleged abductor fits DR. DR would be very familiar with the landscape....I don't understand your post.

I have two theories
1) DR being the simplest
2) Some kind of roamer. As Rich has stated he found it hard to believe this was not solved due to all the local pedophiles.

 

[Kell1]

RichKelly,

I see you are verified law enforcement. What does it mean to you that a POI was publically named for the first time 21 years after the abduction?

That could be due to several factors, it could be that new evidence has surfaced it could be an investigator looking at a former person of interest from a new angle it could simply be something that was overlooked has been discovered there could be several reasons why it took that long but with today's technological advances we are far better now looking At cold cases then we ever have been

 

[Kell1]

OK...so it isn't the Seductive type....can you narrow it down between the Introverted type and the Sadistic type?

there are two things you need to understand

first that human behavior rarely if ever Fits nice and comfortable in one little box, human behavior and in particular interaction is complex and dynamic therefore categorizing offenders you often find aspects of offenders that bleed over into one another

Second we are going off of media reports and not actual investigative data

Though it can and I am sure it will be argued buy a few that certain aspects of this offender's behavior may be consistent with a sadistic type , the underlying Psychological footprint is more consistent with that of a introverted sexual deviant

 

[Kell1]

I have two theories
1) DR being the simplest
2) Some kind of roamer. As Rich has stated he found it hard to believe this was not solved due to all the local pedophiles.

I may have misspoken in that aspect you have to remember that is also entirely possible that although this is most likely the acts of a pedophile.in this particular case, unlike the others who are known offenders this offender may have been able to slip through the cracks and go unnoticed in his life. factor into that the primitive nature of criminal investigation back then it's not hard to see how this crime is unsolved.

they May have been looking at the crimes of a sexual deviant who's other crimes were unknown

 

[chaplain1]

Rich--my roaming theory has been known on this board for quite some time. A traveling salesman, trucker, etc who would have many of the characteristics you describe.

And, as a further aside, the le I have spoken to say that they are unaware of DR'S sexual behavior. He has apparently never gone out with women or men. He is Norwegian bachelor farmer, or in this case, perhaps the Germania bachelor farmer.

 

[Kell1]

Rich--my roaming theory has been known on this board for quite some time. A traveling salesman, trucker, etc who would have many of the characteristics you describe.

And, as a further aside, the le I have spoken to say that they are unaware of DR'S sexual behavior. He has apparently never gone out with women or men. He is Norwegian bachelor farmer, or in this case, perhaps the Germania bachelor farmer.

Ill admit haven't read your theory, I generally wont as a rule, (nothing against it ) In order to give an unbiased analysis , I just read facts of the case, and from there ill add what I feel is pertinent.

Its nothing personal against anyone, but its the same reason why I don't go off peoples personal blogs , because there usually a HEALTHY dose of opinion, and they tend to be strongly suggestive in nature.

Now its possible the offender could be any one of the things listed above, however in most cases they tend to follow the profile hence why they exist, which is unemployed, if they are employed its usually within some kind unskilled labor position, the MAJORITY of it tends to be in construction or construction related jobs.

I don't want to speculate much further than what we do know .

Can other avenues be investigated???... absolutely , and in unsolved cases they should be .

For example did anyone other than the 2 boys he was with see anything? .. not that I'm aware of , though Id like to believe both boys were thoroughly investigated, I don't know for sure.

Some may take issue with that, but lets ask, have kids ever harmed other kids??...have siblings ever harmed other siblings?....... damn right they have, sometimes horrifically so

Lets look at the story itself , to any seasoned investigator the story itself should seem strange, masked assailant , in the dark, makes sure you cant see his face, talks in a indiscernible voice....No one sees him coming no one sees him leave, therefore they cant say whether or not a vehicle was used, what type etc.

Basically a "phantom"

Investigative procedure always says you check who last saw the victim (alive in homicide cases) , and you always investigate the ones with an alibi twice......Remember the law of appearances, things aren't always what they appear.

Now I will admit I DO feel this was indeed an abduction, but that's an example of how you have to consider every investigative angle, without interjections as to personal feeling .

 

[mamamumbles]

I'm glad you are on here Rich. I have had the same thoughts on possibilities. We have to go on facts. Unfortunately we are not privileged to those facts. Without someone admitting it or a skeleton found with extra evidence still there we will NEVER know who did this. That is the fact. People have actually admitted like one of the B's but the police don't want to believe that story, that he was dragged to where the car was and taken away in the car.

 

[Trackergd]

@Trackergd,

What shoeprints have you found in the photos of DR's driveway, and if you have some as candidates for the abductor, where you able to determine some shoe/sole type and size for them?

The only prints that we can identify by two independent means are Jacobs, both by comparison to the brand and model shoe and by LE verifying they were his prints. Only two appear near the unidentified tire prints.

All other prints are unidentified, however there appear to be a number behind Jacobs that are consistent with someone putting Jacob into a vehicle as illustrated very well by Sas.

Here are the challenges:

• 
  We have never seen prints of the entire print field before it was contaminated by LE and searchers.
  The print field was contaminated very soon after the abduction as it was poorly secured.
  Despite a formal request, Sterns County declined to share the print field photographs for analysis.
  The placement of the plaster casts seems rather odd given the print field.
  Very few pictures of the print field exist outside of those LE has. What ones we do have are from media and are mostly snips from video.
  We have not had any communication with anyone (LE or Civilian) who were on site after the abduction who can give us a better idea of the print field.
  We have no idea what LE has and does not have.
  We lack information about Kevin, the party group and the Scout Troop camping nearby.
  The area is rife with pedophiles.

From a cold case point of view, the available forensics for those outside of Sterns County LE are nil.

IF I ever get to see all the print field photographs and some time to put the breadcrumbs together, I might be able to give you an idea of what happened and how. The entire story was there at one time like an open book.

 

[Kell1]

I'm glad you are on here Rich. I have had the same thoughts on possibilities. We have to go on facts. Unfortunately we are not privileged to those facts. Without someone admitting it or a skeleton found with extra evidence still there we will NEVER know who did this. That is the fact. People have actually admitted like one of the B's but the police don't want to believe that story, that he was dragged to where the car was and taken away in the car.

Glad to be here,

I feel that was most likely the case as well, in something like 82% of cases a vehicle is involved in abductions.

My general feeling is he lives close, he's an oddball generally known around the area , those who know him eill describe him as odd, most likely a loner with few if ANY friends

AS for a job, I feel he will be employed, Here I could be wrong, but then I ask why put prowling so late, I mean the hours he's out are odd to begin with .

If we follow the profile outline, ... Construction seems a LEGITIMATE possibility.

He will be between 27-35 years old, white male, with some history of crimes, almost certainly sexual in nature.

NOW though they almost certainly exist in his background this does not mean they were ever prosecuted for them, as we've come to learn in the "old" days people often accused of sex crimes against kids, were simply told to leave the area. As sad as that is, it was not an unheard of process, especially when the offender, was apparently a shy harmless introvert, in some cases with a family .

I come to 2 possible conclusions on the mask itself 1) Hes uncomfortable with his appearance- Scars, or some discerning feature he is self conscious of or 2) He feels he could be identified because hes known around the area. (Maybe a little of both who knows)

However if you figure in its dark they're alone, he has a weapon to gain control of more than 1, orders them face down , tells his brother to run and not look back... I feel lends itself more to the latter.

I don't think you're dealing with someone who's splitting atoms in his free time .

But the, technique tools the approach, all indicate planning, the skill in doing so indicate experience

 

[chaplain1]

Joy's blog seems to have antagonized law enforcement by getting all of principal characters together (Jared, Kevin, Dan). After this recent publicity, I find it hard to believe that they will release info for another 10-15 years--even to someone like tracker.

 

[Kell1]

Oh one more thing, I could also be off on the age, though they generally tend to be late 20's early to mid 30's , if an individual was incarcerated (or in treatment) for a period of time, the age span can expand possibly late 30's to mid 40s