MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #17

[bucshunter]

Beats me, This is what the article says

http://projectjason.org/forums/topic...0221989/page-2

At the big dig, there was Stearns County, FBI and Team Adam. Team Adam is made up of retired LE who specilize in missing children. Team Adam is from the Center for Missing and Exploited children

I cannot get the link to open so the story mention new evidence that led to the dig?s

 

[bucshunter]

Beats me, This is what the article says

http://projectjason.org/forums/topic...0221989/page-2

At the big dig, there was Stearns County, FBI and Team Adam. Team Adam is made up of retired LE who specilize in missing children. Team Adam is from the Center for Missing and Exploited children

Human what is this project jason site? I get an error message.

 

[777]

<modsnip>

first, if i were investigating, i would start with dr and kevin....777, i wouldnt go as far to say that kevin is innocent. *his story is seemingly too perfect to explain away every detail putting him in the middle of the abduction, but it just doesnt add up. *it doesnt make sense. *to answer your question 777. *could it be possible that police discussed with mrs wetterling and they decided to clear him publicly to let his guard down. *to let him think his fantastical story worked,(just because someone says soemthing doesnt make a fact or factual) and say he was clear so they could investigate more closely and let his guard down so he may slip up or make a mistake? *they are in fact watching him. *777, perhaps a possibility?*

I agree Kevin and DR are the only two people we know were in the right place and right time. Kevin's story makes no sense whatsoever; DR's story is unremarkable. Yes, the police with Patty's acquiescence may be manipulating Kevin and/or his official story in some way - it's really too fantastic to be true.

I've always thought the bigger question, regardless of when DR told LE about the cars, is why didn't LE ask for the public's help in identifying those cars? I can think of the following reasons:

1. LE figured out those cars right away. This is possible, but it could be argued that this means Kevin came forward and was known right away. It also seems that if LE knew these two cars, that they would have used this information as leverage against DR during questioning. There is no indication that they did so.

2. LE didn't believe DR. This is curious, because then it would seem he would have been treated as more of a suspect from the very beginning. I think he may have been a suspect right away, but not necessarily a top suspect.

3. LE didn't properly digest or hear what DR told them. This is highly doubtful because no matter what one's opinion of LE's competence is, this is a very basic level and it's almost unfathomable they missed this.

4. LE believed DR, but held this information close to the vest, so as to not spoil the information. This is possible I suppose, but it would seem the immediate urgency would be to find Jacob, and releasing the information about the cars would possibly help find him.

Any other ideas??

One explanation that DOES make sense to me is that Kevin's actions this night were known from the very beginning by police. They then decided to keep it secret, perhaps in part to serve the investigation and perhaps in part because Kevin was a reluctant participant in all this.

As for why they did not seek public help in identifying the cars....I think your book and other sources show that almost all the manpower on this case was spent on tracking down tips. Tips phoned in from the public.

Like everyone else, the police had a tendency to start with a suspect first and then try to match that person back to the crime scene....also like everyone else, perhaps not enough effort was made in taking the clues from the crime scene first and letting those point you in the direction of a suspect.

Just an opinion here based on many years of experience, first hand. The media is historically inaccurate in their reporting. They are in a rush to get the story out first, support their media organization and make money. Facts have little to do with the story and are frequently either left out or spun to keep public interest. This is why LE has a Public Information Officer as do most SAR teams. Camera crews have in some cases walked on the tracks I was trying to follow trying to stick a camera in my face and ask questions. I have little love of the media other than what information I can get out of them that I don't already have. They tend to excel on digging up dirt on the subject..the things the family won't tell me...the dirty laundry. So take what you read and see in the media with a large grain of salt. You are not getting the entire story, and possibly some disinformation sowed by LE to throw the perp off his/her game. There are some exceptional reporters, but by and far, they are few and far inbetween.

I value very much your point - the media is wildly inaccurate - yet people will happily convict a man of child abduction on this thread based only on what they have seen in the media.

I'd rather 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be sent to prison. I'm all for looking at DR and anyone else but there is nothing in media reports to decide guilt or innocence.




777

 

[777]

PM sent.

If a child board is developed for non-DR discussions will any members who steer the conversation back towards DR on those boards have repercussions?

For this last week or so I was willing to try and have a discussion on the main thread that looked beyond just DR as a suspect. As you can see, the anti-DR forces post dozens of times a day and it's not possible in practical terms to keep a discussion going without attempts to steer it back to DR.

I just sent a PM myself to Bessie.


777

 

[bucshunter]

&#8220;Some of these were taken from a group of boys. That is really rare,&#8221; Patty Wetterling said. &#8220;The threat of a gun, the age of the victims, they were close to Jacob&#8217;s age. I do think there is a strong possibility they are connected to Jacob&#8217;s case.&#8221;

 

[777]

Sas its hard to match the volume of posts you and human post regurgitating the same things regarding dr as the perp

That's putting it mildly.

Go back to most any random page in these threads over the last several years....same people making the same points over and over again.

DR has been consistent in saying he first told LE about the cars when he was interviewed at school the morning following the abduction. He's said so in interviews more than once. He says he told LE and the SC Times reporter about both cars on that Monday, but that the newspaper only reported on one of the cars.

AFAIK DR has always given a consistent story of this night. Do you know of any glaring inconsistencies?

I don't think this is a good analogy. I remember September 11th pretty well, that is probably the only comparable event. Maybe the Challenger disaster.

Those are different - they are impersonal.

Besides, read the book by FBI man John Douglas which ELOC recommends. Everyone reacts differently. In no case should most any type of behavior after a crime be used to assume guilt or innocence of the crime.

I too remember where I was for September 11th in good detail. I can only remember certain random details about the day my first child was born because I was in such a panic. Definitely couldn't say what calls I made, what cars I saw in my driveway, what I said to anyone else that day, etc.

If Patty says so. We should begin harping at LE to clear this poor mans name. Enough abuse already.

Patty has said numerous times that she thinks Jared's case and Jacob's case are related. This rules out DR. Yet, on the one hand we have people who claim to worship every word Patty says yet on the other hand ignore the fact that she thinks Jared and Jacob are related.....the only "evidence" that they consider is evidence that leads to their conclusion, everything else is "just" an opinion.




777

 

[bessie]

I wanted to let you guys know that I received quite a few replies, and by far, most of them were in favor of a sub-forum. So I've decided to set one up. It probably won't be ready until some time early next week, hopefully Monday. I'll post the link here when it's open for posting.

Thanks to everyone for your pm's.

 

[bucshunter]

“Some of these were taken from a group of boys. That is really rare,” Patty Wetterling said. “The threat of a gun, the age of the victims, they were close to Jacob’s age. I do think there is a strong possibility they are connected to Jacob’s case.”

This is Pattys current thoughts

 

[human]

Here is another link to Team Adam but I think there is more info in the book link that I will post.

BTW it is really quite strange with some of these comments. I originally brought up DAH perhaps in 2009 or 08 on here. I only rembered Paynesville.

I kept regugitating the info for a number of years until jBrown figured out who he was.

Anyway, here is Team Adam

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-jacob-wetterling-praying/story?id=11065019

 

[Sasquatch321]

So yesterday for the 3rd time I visited the site and neighborhood of the abduction again. Once again I'm just drawn back by the hills and who could have really known and planned this so well. For the first time I also had to take a left onto Kiwi Ave where the Wetterlings house is located. Despite driving in there and turning around at the deadend I was unable to place which house was exactly the wetterlings. It's a very wooded little enclave in there. I had to go in there to see what Matt Feeney might have been able to see. It's very possible when he dropped the kid off there that he noticed the boys imo. Psycopath predators can fall in love with someone in a split second and they will come back to stalk and prey. So I'm out of kiwi ave now and I'm training my eyes back on DR's spiking woodpile, well it's probably just some kind of art. Then I suddenly see this white object just above the weed line heading down the driveway towards the road. It was totally tripping me out cause all I can see is a floating white object until he reached the end of the driveway, where then I see it is Dan on his bike. I thought omg is this really happening and I just cringe up, half wanting to stop and question him, half wanting to stop and have a little tussel with him in the ditch. I would have liked to put him in the back of my truck and gone over to pattys to sort things out with each other. But morals kicked in, I'm just a regular person that is not going to do any good by stopping and talking to this man or dragging him to the Wetterlings. I thought it was funny he didn't even acknowledge me passing him by as well, He was just focused straight ahead with what looked like a big smile on his face. I can imagine he's treated the neighbors on the dead end like this for 25 years.

 

[777]

Does that mean anything, so as to say he couldn't have done it? Ted Bundy appeared normal and charming as well right?

No.

Ted Bundy appeared "normal and charming" to his victims for the brief moments they were alive - and he was for certain moderate periods of time able to just slightly fit into the normal everyday world. So for a few weeks and months he could live in an area and the worst a lot of people thought of him was that he was weird.

BUT, he very definitely was not able to hide his true self for any length of time. He had to move around frequently and had a long history of crime and criminal behavior. He was often just one step ahead of the law.

DR has taught kids for 40 years. No arrests. No complaints. There is no child molester who just has a one-off night of crime.

The Hunt.....emotionally charged....but factually inaccurate + generally misleading. A media presentation not reflective of the actual scenario. IMO, this wasn't a case where artistic license should have been used for effect- despite the good intentions. 'Hollywood' is perfectly capable these days of capturing the actual details of any subject matter.

Patty's letter to DR.....5 years old or not....still relevant IMHO. There must have been good cause for her to write such a letter. She is a very careful spokeswoman from what I've witnessed watching her speak in videos. However, if you know her or have factual information stating that she doesn't believe the POI is involved then I'll disregard the letter.

1. I've read Joy's discussion about the production of Jacob's segment on The Hunt. They have to get good ratings and sell commercials, sure. But Patty was given an important chance to talk and she was not manipulated nor edited into saying something she did not intend. John Walsh has made a point many times that he takes consultations with crime victims very seriously. I don't think they are perfect - but trying to dismiss The Hunt is just again the nonstop habit on this thread of rejecting any evidence that does not conform to the desired conclusion that many have, which is that DR is guilty.

2. Patty's letters are not proof of innocence nor guilt nor much of anything. Unless we have every letter Patty wrote about the case it is again simply cherry-picking the evidence to suit one's preferred conclusion for anyone who tries to twist the meaning of Patty's letter one way or another.

This is a forum on the internet, not a jury room in a court of law. As far as I can tell, all you people popping in and simply saying "he didn't do it" are acting on speculation and gut feelings as well. What makes you right? Unless you are him, you were with him at the time, you know who did it, or you did it yourself, there is no way anyone can know 100% that he didn't do it. It's all hearsay and speculation here because none of us were there during the crime and we don't have access to the case files or evidence.

I don't think many of us are saying HE DIDN'T DO IT.

We are saying there is no proof. There is evidence he was in the right place and right time - but that's all there is.

Besides, in this country INNOCENCE IS THE PRESUMPTION IT IS NEVER "SPECULATION".

I never said he wasn't guilty. I just don't subscribe to the idea of smearing a man's name without any evidence to back it up. I personally don't care that this is just a public forum on the internet. I still believe in innocent until proven guilty. What is so wrong with that? So forgive me if I have opinions that differ from yours or anyone else's.

By the way, I didn't just "pop in." I've been following this thread and Jacob's case for a very long time. I've just cut back on how much I post and what I say because people have twisted my words in the past. And what difference does it make anyway? Everyone is welcome here and so are their opinions.

Well put. Actually, I don't feel everyone is welcome to post their opinions. Look back through the threads - quite a few have been run off.

It would be great if some would be more tolerant of others opinions, and if some would be more respectful in advertising or dramatizing their own.

Agreed.

I'm sure I've contributed to the tension lately. It's not an ideal solution, but I think the only practical solution is to have an alternative thread for everyone interested in considering suspects besides DR.

Not long ago, I posted (what I thought was new information) regarding DAH. At the time, I believe his mother lived in a trailer park only a few miles from the abduction site; which potentially puts him in the immediate area. I have never heard evidence that he was cleared/had an alibi/was incarcerated etc...but I could have missed it.

It's hard to maintain a question or line of reasoning because of the serial posters ignoring what you say and proceeding to hang DR simply because he is unmarried and takes care of his parents.

Any time someone posts a tidbit of information about anyone other than DR, it gets lost in the regurgitated information about DR. The recently proposed dedicated Jacob forum would be nice with one thread on DR and other threads with other discussions.

Agreed.
Let's admit that despite a stated intention to help Jacob, a lot of people have adopted this as their hobby and find satisfaction from talking about it. Endlessly.

&#8220;Some of these were taken from a group of boys. That is really rare,&#8221; Patty Wetterling said. &#8220;The threat of a gun, the age of the victims, they were close to Jacob&#8217;s age. I do think there is a strong possibility they are connected to Jacob&#8217;s case.&#8221;

This quote from Patty implies DR is not guilty of this crime - this kind of post is not well tolerated here. Prepare for an onslaught of posts regurgitating something along the lines of DR was behaving strange at some point, therefore he is guilty.


777

 

[human]

Here is the article about the evidence and what was taken

http://www.immelman.us/news/wetterli...t-dan-rassier/

Sources tell KSTP.com, investigators removed several items from the farm, including a lawn chair, the base of a patio umbrella stand and a cedar chest. The items had been stored in an area above a four stall garage on the Rassier property.

We have also learned investigators seized a box from Daniel Rassier&#8217;s bedroom containing news clippings and articles about the Jacob Wetterling abduction. That box also contained part of Rassier&#8217;s journal.

Sources have confirmed to KSTP.com, during this summer&#8217;s two-day search, investigators did not have a search warrant for the farm house, but rather just for the outbuildings and property. However, during that first day of the search investigators found enough evidence to go back to a judge and get a warrant for the farm house itself.

This is the third time the Rassier family farm has been searched, the first was immediately after the abduction, the second time was 6 years ago when investigators examined Daniel Rassier&#8217;s computer.

Sources also confirm part of the reason why the farm was searched again this summer, was because new investigators took on the case and discovered evidence that had not been examined before. Another reason why investigators converged on the farm this summer is because of advances in technology.

The K-9 searching the Rassier farm was flown to St. Joseph from Louisiana. The K-9 works very closely with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

 

[777]

So yesterday for the 3rd time I visited the site and neighborhood of the abduction again. Once again I'm just drawn back by the hills and who could have really known and planned this so well. For the first time I also had to take a left onto Kiwi Ave where the Wetterlings house is located. Despite driving in there and turning around at the deadend I was unable to place which house was exactly the wetterlings. It's a very wooded little enclave in there. I had to go in there to see what Matt Feeney might have been able to see. It's very possible when he dropped the kid off there that he noticed the boys imo. Psycopath predators can fall in love with someone in a split second and they will come back to stalk and prey. So I'm out of kiwi ave now and I'm training my eyes back on DR's spiking woodpile, well it's probably just some kind of art. Then I suddenly see this white object just above the weed line heading down the driveway towards the road. It was totally tripping me out cause all I can see is a floating white object until he reached the end of the driveway, where then I see it is Dan on his bike. I thought omg is this really happening and I just cringe up, half wanting to stop and question him, half wanting to stop and have a little tussel with him in the ditch. I would have liked to put him in the back of my truck and gone over to pattys to sort things out with each other. But morals kicked in, I'm just a regular person that is not going to do any good by stopping and talking to this man or dragging him to the Wetterlings. I thought it was funny he didn't even acknowledge me passing him by as well, He was just focused straight ahead with what looked like a big smile on his face. I can imagine he's treated the neighbors on the dead end like this for 25 years.

Many thanks for your insights into the neighborhood.

Not that I have any problem with what you're doing, but I have to say that this is a perfect example of how seeing someone drive or do strange things might have a perfectly innocent explanation. What if someone noticed your car and a few hours later there was a crime...you'd probably be a suspect.

 

[Sasquatch321]

I wanted to let you guys know that I received quite a few replies, and by far, most of them were in favor of a sub-forum. So I've decided to set one up. It probably won't be ready until some time early next week, hopefully Monday. I'll post the link here when it's open for posting.

Thanks to everyone for your pm's.

A DR thread all by itself, awesome!

 

[livstabler]

Patty has said numerous times that she thinks Jared's case and Jacob's case are related. This rules out DR. Yet, on the one hand we have people who claim to worship every word Patty says yet on the other hand ignore the fact that she thinks Jared and Jacob are related.....the only "evidence" that they consider is evidence that leads to their conclusion, everything else is "just" an opinion.

777

How does the cases being related rule out DR?

 

[Jennifermn]

Has any info ever come out on DR's sexuality? When I watched the interview, my first thought was his mannerisms and speech reminded me of a man who might be homosexual. I do not mean that to be derogatory at all btw.

The reason I bring it up, is because I suspect it's the reason he's never been married. I've seen the fact that he's never been married thrown around a lot as being bizarre. IMO if my hunch is correct, it makes perfect sense.

Personally, I don't think one being married, or living with their parents is weird though regardless of his sexual orientation.

I apologize in advance if bringing this up goes against any sort of rules here on WS. I'm a noob, and am learning as I go. I'm just wondering if anyone has any insight on this.

 

[chaplain1]

I haven't date in a few years...

 

[Jennifermn]

It will be cool to have a subform, where info/topics can be better categorized.

I'd also like to know what makes some member so sure DR is the perp? I know he's been the person LE has focused the most on, and that counts for something - but after all this time, and all of the searches I just feel like something should have surfaced by now.

After a lot of DR sleuthing, I have to say, he and his family seem like pretty nice and normal folks. I was expecting an awkward anti-social type, but on social media he has a lot of friends, and family that he speaks to, and has a pretty good sense of humor too. He just won teacher of the year at Rocori in Cold Spring, MN.

I know that doesn't exclude him as a suspect, but I just can't see him as the perp. I wish there was more to go off of than gut feelings or hunches. It sucks that there isn't more.

 

[bucshunter]

It will be cool to have a subform, where info/topics can be better categorized.

I'd also like to know what makes some member so sure DR is the perp? I know he's been the person LE has focused the most on, and that counts for something - but after all this time, and all of the searches I just feel like something should have surfaced by now.

After a lot of DR sleuthing, I have to say, he and his family seem like pretty nice and normal folks. I was expecting an awkward anti-social type, but on social media he has a lot of friends, and family that he speaks to, and has a pretty good sense of humor too. He just won teacher of the year at Rocori in Cold Spring, MN.

I know that doesn't exclude him as a suspect, but I just can't see him as the perp. I wish there was more to go off of than gut feelings or hunches. It sucks that there isn't more.

Teacher of the year! Awesome!

 

[bucshunter]

So yesterday for the 3rd time I visited the site and neighborhood of the abduction again. Once again I'm just drawn back by the hills and who could have really known and planned this so well. For the first time I also had to take a left onto Kiwi Ave where the Wetterlings house is located. Despite driving in there and turning around at the deadend I was unable to place which house was exactly the wetterlings. It's a very wooded little enclave in there. I had to go in there to see what Matt Feeney might have been able to see. It's very possible when he dropped the kid off there that he noticed the boys imo. Psycopath predators can fall in love with someone in a split second and they will come back to stalk and prey. So I'm out of kiwi ave now and I'm training my eyes back on DR's spiking woodpile, well it's probably just some kind of art. Then I suddenly see this white object just above the weed line heading down the driveway towards the road. It was totally tripping me out cause all I can see is a floating white object until he reached the end of the driveway, where then I see it is Dan on his bike. I thought omg is this really happening and I just cringe up, half wanting to stop and question him, half wanting to stop and have a little tussel with him in the ditch. I would have liked to put him in the back of my truck and gone over to pattys to sort things out with each other. But morals kicked in, I'm just a regular person that is not going to do any good by stopping and talking to this man or dragging him to the Wetterlings. I thought it was funny he didn't even acknowledge me passing him by as well, He was just focused straight ahead with what looked like a big smile on his face. I can imagine he's treated the neighbors on the dead end like this for 25 years.

Dont be afraid of dr Sas. He's already spoken to Patty and she now believes he is innocent. I bet he'd be willing to sit down and talk with you