MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

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Jbrown324320 said:
Trackergd, the population of St Joseph's the time Jacob was abducted was around 4000 people. The towns close to there were just as small. To have that many sex offenders in that sparsely populated area defies logic to me. But when the church sex scandal came out, it started to come together. Some victims end up abusers themselves. I believe the abuse and victims from familial sex abuse and priest sex abuse multiplied. Everyone turned a blind eye and did not get help or counseling. Pretend it didn't happen. MN people like to see the good stuff and ignore or not talk about the bad sometimes. At least that is what it was like in my MN family.
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Where I'm from they take ignoring the bad to galactic proportions and blind denial. I think the county seal needs an ostrich on it. It's frustrating to those of us raising hell with our local civic and LEO community and half of our media for having subzero standards. The other half of the media is on our side. We're winning.

Life is a great deal of "bad" I've found JBrown. Perhaps a third of my circle of childhood friends have met bad ends. I just got used to it I suppose. When many others see "bad" I start looking for the good. An example you can relate to would be JW's parents and community. Simply astonishing the way everyone is getting along 24.5 years on. His friends and family are still growing, thriving, having children. Fate brought rain and they just kept right on bringin' the parade!

However this wasn't why I replied sorry to run on. The clustering of sex offenders has been studied. A good read: Mack & Grubesic 2010~ Sex Offenders and Residential Location:Predictive-Analytical Framework. Environment and Planning Here we have termed it "cluster******g".

But all is not lost, technology will be making missing & abducted peeps a thing of the past soon. Within 25-40 years, tech will make most abhorrent human behavior and crimes very very risky business if the government and cult of public safety et. alia doesn't ruin the public trust completely and keeps their stuff together. It would be pretty risky behavior indeed to try to snatch a person when many kids and people perhaps wear a carbon steel ring or anklet we can Lojak them with.
 
Mario V said:
Hi ELOCsoul,

"Odd"? Gee, what would seem odd about that.. considering the way Minnesota LEOs handled this all the way on down the line? If this was my child they'd have much more serious problems at this point.

It's clear that for every good LEO who gave their all here there were at least two or more who dropped the ball for whatever reason. Way up here in twenty-fourteen, using past as predictor, it would be insane to keep expecting closure from Minn. LE here unless a few key elements change.

I'd say there is hope. Not everyone is constrained by the same rules, rights and technological resources as Asshat County and Minn. there. This has dragged, and could be a matter of how much decorum has to get wrecked before someone cries uncle.

I'm still sucking up info on these cases ~ awaiting some ordered materials. Hope in the future to bring something solid to the table, and more. Closure here may require the application of a more radical and forceful approach.
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It wasn't just MN was it? The FBI had more than MN agents or not?

The Wetterlings are bright educated people. I do not like the attack on them in this post.
 
Mario V said:
Here I have been sandbagging for about a year, just signed in about a week back.

Questions if you'd help:

1.) Where may I post Wetterling-related maps/images for future use by the forum members? (Declassified and or public domain) I have noted prior where other posters have taken pains to post images and they are removed. In studying various archival aerial images a few interesting things occurred to us here and while of two minds about disclosure I'm leaning toward potentially floating a few more thoughts here however I'd need to okay that with 3rd parties and am averse to leaking or otherwise telegraphing new direct information.

2.) Is there someone local to St. Cloud with photographic equipment? Nothing special required, we'd just like a few things closely photographed (from public roads/property of course) local to 16th Ave SE and will not be traveling there until mid-May when I will be traveling to Chicago.

3.) Can you help me determine who the realtor/developer was that built the homes to the North of Dale ST, East~West during 86-97 timeframe? (Timeliness of that detail would really help, I cannot say why but a window is closing this year on looking into this in any detail)

4.) Has anyone seen or heard of a van in the Wetterling's area during the time of these abductions? We know about the Chevette- Monte- and others, anything about an older long van? Perhaps beat up or otherwise indicative of an owner who worked in construction or landscaping trades?

5.) A silly one~ Why in blazes can't I load an avatar so I don't look so generic? Ha.

Thanks ELOCsoul!
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What declassified maps could there be?

A child has been missing for years.

Many people have been open and forthright with the information they feel they can provide. Other are here to play games.

Why? I have seen too much lying by people on cases such as Kyron Horman. People just plain making up stuff. Very sad
 
Re Mario's post that Sher referenced.

The party line was probably gone by the 60's. So no listening in on the phone.
 
welcome Mario. We need some fresh stuff and ideas on how to get info from the sheriff and make more connections. I hope you can help. Radical approach is needed here I believe.

I was in St Joseph today with my daughter. I passed Jerry's chiropractor business. I wanted to get out and take pictures, but shergal has a lot of better pics of the area without snow. Eerie vibe to the town every time I go in it. Probably because I have been researching this case for so long.
 
Mario, it was said that someone attended the same party the parents attended who was close to or worked with the monks at St John's. Could he have passed on info he overheard from Patty's conversation? I don't know.
 
Mario V said:
Here I have been sandbagging for about a year, just signed in about a week back.

Questions if you'd help:

1.) Where may I post Wetterling-related maps/images for future use by the forum members? (Declassified and or public domain) I have noted prior where other posters have taken pains to post images and they are removed. In studying various archival aerial images a few interesting things occurred to us here and while of two minds about disclosure I'm leaning toward potentially floating a few more thoughts here however I'd need to okay that with 3rd parties and am averse to leaking or otherwise telegraphing new direct information.

2.) Is there someone local to St. Cloud with photographic equipment? Nothing special required, we'd just like a few things closely photographed (from public roads/property of course) local to 16th Ave SE and will not be traveling there until mid-May when I will be traveling to Chicago.

3.) Can you help me determine who the realtor/developer was that built the homes to the North of Dale ST, East~West during 86-97 timeframe? (Timeliness of that detail would really help, I cannot say why but a window is closing this year on looking into this in any detail)

4.) Has anyone seen or heard of a van in the Wetterling's area during the time of these abductions? We know about the Chevette- Monte- and others, anything about an older long van? Perhaps beat up or otherwise indicative of an owner who worked in construction or landscaping trades?

5.) A silly one~ Why in blazes can't I load an avatar so I don't look so generic? Ha.

Thanks ELOCsoul!
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There was a van involved in an abduction attempt in St. Joseph township two months prior to Jacob's abduction. It was tan in color, the driver was in his 20's - 30's.

I'm not from the area so can't answer your other questions. I did have pictures of the area from last fall but no longer have them. I did write a description of the area at night, I've reposted it a couple of times so you may have seen it.
 
Jbrown324320 said:
welcome Mario. We need some fresh stuff and ideas on how to get info from the sheriff and make more connections. I hope you can help. Radical approach is needed here I believe.

I was in St Joseph today with my daughter. I passed Jerry's chiropractor business. I wanted to get out and take pictures, but shergal has a lot of better pics of the area without snow. Eerie vibe to the town every time I go in it. Probably because I have been researching this case for so long.
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Yes, something to shake the tree. Any further info would be helpful.

I have never been in St Joseph itself-have driven on I-94 and on through to MPLS. 6 years ago I was at St John's for my daughter's tennis tournament....the first time I'd ever been there(and before I'd known of Jacob's case). It was snowing heavily and while the campus was beautiful I did feel a sense of unease. There WAS an eerie vibe. It sounds strange but it was there nonetheless. Of course, there's nothing of proof, but places do have their own resonance.
 
cGorg said:
Yes, something to shake the tree. Any further info would be helpful.

I have never been in St Joseph itself-have driven on I-94 and on through to MPLS. 6 years ago I was at St John's for my daughter's tennis tournament....the first time I'd ever been there(and before I'd known of Jacob's case). It was snowing heavily and while the campus was beautiful I did feel a sense of unease. There WAS an eerie vibe. It sounds strange but it was there nonetheless. Of course, there's nothing of proof, but places do have their own resonance.
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I always loved going to St. John's campus as a child. My folks used to pack a picnic and go to a couple picnic spots they had there. One was right near Lake Sagatagan and my dad would walk with us around the lake through the woods to the Stella Maris chapel. It was beautiful and peaceful there. The chapel seemed so isolated and mysterious to me. Here is a picture of it from across the lake.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rQ-PTV3PwN0/UEQc9ibld1I/AAAAAAAAAIY/vLsrEyU4FkQ/s1600/chapel.jpg

The other picnic spot was a right turn off a road along a creek before you actually entered the campus. I think now there is some sort of ecumenical center back there. We would always stop and buy St. John's bread before we left the campus. It seemed like a warm, friendly place back then.

As I've mentioned on here before, there are many good people at St. John's and it is an excellent college, but I feel it has been tarnished by those monks and priests who molested young boys, and the abbots above them who helped hide them away there.

I never found the campus creepy though, even as an adult - with the exception of the crypt below the church - that's a bit creepy, it is very shadowy, smells of old incense, and has lots of tiny rooms with altars and relics of saints.

However, 16th Ave. in St. Joe, there is no way I'd want to wander around out there. I drove out there once a few years after the abduction, and even in a car it felt scary and unsafe to me. Like JBrown said, I'm sure it's just because we have been looking at this case for so long. The town of St. Joe itself doesn't bother me at all, we go there with friends each year for their big 4th of July festival.
 
shergal said:
I always loved going to St. John's campus as a child. My folks used to pack a picnic and go to a couple picnic spots they had there. One was right near Lake Sagatagan and my dad would walk with us around the lake through the woods to the Stella Maris chapel. It was beautiful and peaceful there. The chapel seemed so isolated and mysterious to me. Here is a picture of it from across the lake.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rQ-PTV3PwN0/UEQc9ibld1I/AAAAAAAAAIY/vLsrEyU4FkQ/s1600/chapel.jpg

The other picnic spot was a right turn off a road along a creek before you actually entered the campus. I think now there is some sort of ecumenical center back there. We would always stop and buy St. John's bread before we left the campus. It seemed like a warm, friendly place back then.

As I've mentioned on here before, there are many good people at St. John's and it is an excellent college, but I feel it has been tarnished by those monks and priests who molested young boys, and the abbots above them who helped hide them away there.

I never found the campus creepy though, even as an adult - with the exception of the crypt below the church - that's a bit creepy, it is very shadowy, smells of old incense, and has lots of tiny rooms with altars and relics of saints.

However, 16th Ave. in St. Joe, there is no way I'd want to wander around out there. I drove out there once a few years after the abduction, and even in a car it felt scary and unsafe to me. Like JBrown said, I'm sure it's just because we have been looking at this case for so long. The town of St. Joe itself doesn't bother me at all, we go there with friends each year for their big 4th of July festival.
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shergal....it is perception. Your description of you + your family's experience is heartwarming, obviously you had good times there with your family. I'm sorry to say what my perception was while I was there....it was simply an intuition. The physical beauty was there but there was something else in the air to me. It depends on the vantage point. I'm sure the good people at St John's outnumber the bad-probably typical for the world at large. And your experiences were good ones. My life has been the same-good experiences. But in the realm of physical beauty, there can be bad experiences which change the perception of that physical environment. And the crossroads of 16th Ave + Rasier's driveway were at one time typical of thousands upon thousands of farmyard driveways-innocent + non-descript but now evoke negative connotations.
 
Jbrown324320 said:
Mario, it was said that someone attended the same party the parents attended who was close to or worked with the monks at St John's. Could he have passed on info he overheard from Patty's conversation? I don't know.
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How could that happen?

No cell phones so,the phone at the house would have to be used. The police , I am sure, easily got the records of every phone call into and out of that,house.
 
cGorg said:
shergal....it is perception. Your description of you + your family's experience is heartwarming, obviously you had good times there with your family. I'm sorry to say what my perception was while I was there....it was simply an intuition. The physical beauty was there but there was something else in the air to me. It depends on the vantage point. I'm sure the good people at St John's outnumber the bad-probably typical for the world at large. And your experiences were good ones. My life has been the same-good experiences. But in the realm of physical beauty, there can be bad experiences which change the perception of that physical environment. And the crossroads of 16th Ave + Rasier's driveway were at one time typical of thousands upon thousands of farmyard driveways-innocent + non-descript but now evoke negative connotations.
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I know it sounds woo woo, but I believe it as well. There is house next door to a friend's where the occupants all suffer some horrible issues. Every new family has a tragedy occur. There is a street by me that has issues as well. Just an ugly feeling. So, I am with you on vibes coming out
 
human said:
How could that happen?

No cell phones so,the phone at the house would have to be used. The police , I am sure, easily got the records of every phone call into and out of that,house.
Click to expand...

Could someone who had been at the party have overheard the Wetterling's conversation about the boys going to Tom Thumb ? Then left to lie in wait for them to return? There would have been time if the boys had not left the home yet. This would surely point to the perp being a local.
 
celticthyme said:
Could someone who had been at the party have overheard the Wetterling's conversation about the boys going to Tom Thumb ? Then left to lie in wait for them to return? There would have been time if the boys had not left the home yet. This would surely point to the perp being a local.
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For the same reasons that Human points out I would tend to say no, very unlikely IMO.

However, I would argue that it was likely that, due to the specific purpose of the party, that those who knew of the party would have held high expectations that the Wetterlings would be attending. There would have been an opportunity for someone to plan an abduction based on those expectations. I'm not saying that I think that's what happened, but it does leave that door open in my mind. Popular notion is that the decision to attend the party was last minute. I do not believe that to be true.
 
Also.. Mossad was right.. if one particular idea I'm thinking of is a solve.
. It really was right under their noses all along. It appears it still is.
-M
 
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