MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

[ELOCsoul]

Most of the what we hear regarding the possible link between Johnny Gosch and Jacob, comes from the Franklin Scandal.

But actually it was a PI hired by Gosch's mother that first suggested that Jacob's and Gosch's cases were linked by a pedophile ring. (source: 7/22/91 St. Cloud Times).

That PI was Roy Stephens from Omaha. He had some unusual tactics, as indicated in the link below. He was credited with helping to convict someone of abducting Jill Cutshall in 1987, near Norfok, NE.


http://m.norfolkdailynews.com/news/...238-e625-11e1-8742-001a4bcf6878.html?mode=jqm

 

[ELOCsoul]

A criminal who knows the whereabouts of law enforcement at any given moment can use that information to their advantage. A person of average intelligence can understand this and use it to his advantage. A criminal who is able to listen to law enforcement radio transmissions, for example, could use information obtained from those transmissions to further their criminal activity, hide criminal activity or avoid detection, assist in a get-away, or gain investigative information. Small town, rural police may be especially susceptible to this, as their daily routines may not vary much from one day to the next. In this manner, the activities and locations of law enforcement officers become predictable to the criminal. Knowing these things, a concerned citizen might even be inspired to write to the local newspaper editor wondering “Will our local police vary their activities so you don’t know where they will be at any given time?”

Such tactics could be used by anyone, anywhere in the U.S, in the late 1980s. For example, first available from your local Radio Shack store on November 30, 1987, the Realistic PRO-27 portable police scanner was priced at only $49.95 (1988 Radio Shack catalog, page 96, http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1988/). By 1988, Radio Shack’s police call radio guide for Minnesota had increased one dollar in price from $6.95 to $7.95. (Radio Shack Cat. No. 62-1045). Very simple to set up and use, anyone with even a small income could afford such a device if they really wanted one - just a trip to Crossroads Mall. Simple technology affordable even to a person of simple means.

View a 26-year-old Realistic Pro 38 (1987) portable police scanner still fully functional in 2013: Realistic Pro 38 police scanner - YouTube

I'm not sure what the poster was trying to say here, but wasn't there a St. Joseph police office under internal investigation in 1990 for possessing a police scanner that had been obtained from the department under questionable circumstances? I want to say I had come across something about there being three separate internal investigations into the prior police chief's regime. Bill Lorenz was the chief at the time of Jacob's abduction, so the internal investigations would have been from incidents during his administration. Any locals recall anything about this??

 

[Jbrown324320]

I don't know if this is anything, but searching Bill Lorenz in Minnesota and it comes up with a company Lorenz manufacturing in Benson, MN with a link to a scanner frequency for the company. http://www.cityfreq.com/callsign/kqc536.html.

 

[human]

http://greaterminnesota.kstp.com/ne...ve-interview-jacob-wetterling-person-interest

wow. Reviewing these things just blows my mind more.

He will do anything to solve and help with the case, but never ever met with the Wetterlings until accidentally bumping into Patty.

That speaks volumes to me.

I wonder about the chest. It seems from what he says that the dogs may have hit on it because death, not just blood.

All the weird things burned such as clothing an animals. Strange. Who wants to burn animals? They stink.

We live in the country and throw any animals in the woods We have a fraction of the property they have. Burning clothes as well. Strange.

His total lack of concern except for himself and his family is astounding to me

 

[HEY YOU!]

The boys get the ok to go to the video store on their bikes, at the same time DR is out on a run. He sees flashlights in the distance as he approaches his house and hides in the brush (explains noise that boys heard)Realizes he has an opportunity since parents are gone. Sees boys are alone, runs to house grabs dark clothing and mom's pantyhose and puts it on, drives his car down driveway and turns it back around facing his house up the driveway where the footprints and scent stop, he waits for the boys...proceeds to pick Jacob and tells others to run. Takes Jacob back to house.

That night he SAID he searched the buildings but wouldn't you or I insist the cops do it? Of course the cops should have anyway. He actually goes to bed and SLEEPS knowing a child has been abducted at the end of his driveway, no volunteering to help or going over to the family to see what if anything they need? Goes to work the very next day without a call to police department or Wetterlings to see how search is going? A good Christian man did not offer help, support or even a casserole to the family who's son was taken from the end of his driveway? Why? Why didn't he have contact with the Wetterling family AT ALL?

Once Kevin came forward to claim the odd tire prints, DR was named person of interest...why? All other tire tracks were accounted for, that leaves only DR. NO OTHER TIRE TRACKS where Jacob's footprints end.

Just my thoughts and opinion.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I'm thinking the reason he didn't go to the Wetterling house is because there is definitely 1 witness possibly 2 who may find him 'familiar' and ID him. Has Jacob's brother or his best friend ever confronted DR? What has been their contact with him? They are adults now, have they gone over to DR's house for a face to face man to man conversation regarding the night their best friend/ brother was abducted from DR's driveway? Do they know it's him and are still terrified after all these years? I would be.

 

[shergal]

The boys get the ok to go to the video store on their bikes, at the same time DR is out on a run. He sees flashlights in the distance as he approaches his house and hides in the brush (explains noise that boys heard)Realizes he has an opportunity since parents are gone. Sees boys are alone, runs to house grabs dark clothing and mom's pantyhose and puts it on, drives his car down driveway and turns it back around facing his house up the driveway where the footprints and scent stop, he waits for the boys...proceeds to pick Jacob and tells others to run. Takes Jacob back to house.

That night he SAID he searched the buildings but wouldn't you or I insist the cops do it? Of course the cops should have anyway. He actually goes to bed and SLEEPS knowing a child has been abducted at the end of his driveway, no volunteering to help or going over to the family to see what if anything they need? Goes to work the very next day without a call to police department or Wetterlings to see how search is going? A good Christian man did not offer help, support or even a casserole to the family who's son was taken from the end of his driveway? Why? Why didn't he have contact with the Wetterling family AT ALL?

Once Kevin came forward to claim the odd tire prints, DR was named person of interest...why? All other tire tracks were accounted for, that leaves only DR. NO OTHER TIRE TRACKS where Jacob's footprints end.

Just my thoughts and opinion.

The police were still in his driveway and yard when he came out for work the next day. He couldn't get out because they had crime tape across the driveway, so he lifted it and walked under it right into the center of the crime scene. (I've always thought that was bizarre - a teacher should know better.) The cops told him to drive around through the "ditch" area. But I like your point of why wouldn't he go over to Wetterlings, offer his support in person, etc. And yes, bringing the casserole, would be so Minnesota. ;-)

Very strange he didn't talk to Wetterlings for all those years.

 

[HEY YOU!]

The police were still in his driveway and yard when he came out for work the next day. He couldn't get out because they had crime tape across the driveway, so he lifted it and walked under it right into the center of the crime scene. (I've always thought that was bizarre - a teacher should know better.) The cops told him to drive around through the "ditch" area. But I like your point of why wouldn't he go over to Wetterlings, offer his support in person, etc. And yes, bringing the casserole, would be so Minnesota. ;-)

Very strange he didn't talk to Wetterlings for all those years.

And knowing first thing in the morning that the neighborhood boy kidnapped from his driveway is still missing, he goes to work like nothing happened? Wouldn't you go directly to the family or at least the cops and offer your help in some way? Any way? Who just goes to work like everything is peachy? I really can't get over this point. And when he says he met with Patty and so casually says, 'well it's been 30 years so, yeah' or something to that effect. As if, why hasn't SHE gone to him?

And why hasn't Jacob's brother or best friend EVER gone to see DR and talk face to face with him about that night? Why? Because they already know.

 

[human]

And knowing first thing in the morning that the neighborhood boy kidnapped from his driveway is still missing, he goes to work like nothing happened? Wouldn't you go directly to the family or at least the cops and offer your help in some way? Any way? Who just goes to work like everything is peachy? I really can't get over this point. And when he says he met with Patty and so casually says, 'well it's been 30 years so, yeah' or something to that effect. As if, why hasn't SHE gone to him?

And why hasn't Jacob's brother or best friend EVER gone to see DR and talk face to face with him about that night? Why? Because they already know.

wow. You have summarized everything so that the strange things to me are pieced together and make total sense. Excellent insights about going to work, not being concerned and never going over there in case the boys ID him. Yes.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I wonder what the view is from the upstairs window at the DR house? Look at the google earth map...it is a direct line of sight to where the Wetterlings live. Perhaps there is a hill and the house is down and out of site? I don't know but am curious, can you see the DR house at any point when traveling on the road from the Wetterling house? Or from anywhere on the farm? Did he own binoculars? A telescope?

This was surely a crime of opportunity, who else would have black pantyhose available except for a guy who still lives with his mom & dad and who happened to live at the last place Jacob was seen? It seems so obvious.

I wonder how his parents feel? Do they have suspicions? Did they find something unusual? Would they protect their son no matter what because of their God fearing beliefs? God would not want that, he would want the truth and peace for Jacob's parents. They deserve to know what happened, they deserve the truth.

 

[HEY YOU!]

wow. You have summarized everything so that the strange things to me are pieced together and make total sense. Excellent insights about going to work, not being concerned and never going over there in case the boys ID him. Yes.

And also why we have never heard of any contact between Jacob's brother, his best friend and DR...even not as adults. I find that very telling indeed. I think they have a solid case based on no strange tire prints alone. I wonder what else they have? They need to take it to trial.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

I wonder what the view is from the upstairs window at the DR house? Look at the google earth map...it is a direct line of sight to where the Wetterlings live. Perhaps there is a hill and the house is down and out of site? I don't know but am curious, can you see the DR house at any point when traveling on the road from the Wetterling house? Or from anywhere on the farm? Did he own binoculars? A telescope?

This was surely a crime of opportunity, who else would have black pantyhose available except for a guy who still lives with his mom & dad and who happened to live at the last place Jacob was seen? It seems so obvious.

I wonder how his parents feel? Do they have suspicions? Did they find something unusual? Would they protect their son no matter what because of their God fearing beliefs? God would not want that, he would want the truth and peace for Jacob's parents. They deserve to know what happened, they deserve the truth.

From my understanding, the house is not visible from the road. It is my opinion that he would not have seen the boys on the road and had no idea they would be there. I know he's a runner but why would he be running at 9pm at night (as it has been previously suggested)? I'm not a runner. Do people go out running that late? What would his reason be for being outside that late at night? Someone came prepared. They were ready and knew what they were doing.

 

[shergal]

I wonder what the view is from the upstairs window at the DR house? Look at the google earth map...it is a direct line of sight to where the Wetterlings live. Perhaps there is a hill and the house is down and out of site? I don't know but am curious, can you see the DR house at any point when traveling on the road from the Wetterling house? Or from anywhere on the farm? Did he own binoculars? A telescope?

This was surely a crime of opportunity, who else would have black pantyhose available except for a guy who still lives with his mom & dad and who happened to live at the last place Jacob was seen? It seems so obvious.

I wonder how his parents feel? Do they have suspicions? Did they find something unusual? Would they protect their son no matter what because of their God fearing beliefs? God would not want that, he would want the truth and peace for Jacob's parents. They deserve to know what happened, they deserve the truth.

Welcome, HEY YOU! Here is a video that DR did with Esme Murphy. It has some excellent panorama shots of the farm looking up to the road, and the road looking back to the farm house. I'm pretty sure you can't see the house from the road, it is down a slight hill and behind many trees. But as you can see when they are standing near the house, you can see up to the road, so anyone passing with flashlight would have been seen even from the ground where they are standing - surely from an upstairs window.

When DR is shown on the deck it looks like there is more of a hill there between him and the road. If nothing else, in open country like that, I feel with windows open (and it was a warm day) you would hear kids approaching on bikes from further away and seen flashlights.

The view across those fields towards the Wetterling home certainly looks wide open here:
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/...est-goes-through-day-of-wetterling-abduction/

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

I'm thinking the reason he didn't go to the Wetterling house is because there is definitely 1 witness possibly 2 who may find him 'familiar' and ID him. Has Jacob's brother or his best friend ever confronted DR? What has been their contact with him? They are adults now, have they gone over to DR's house for a face to face man to man conversation regarding the night their best friend/ brother was abducted from DR's driveway? Do they know it's him and are still terrified after all these years? I would be.

Why did/does he need to go to the Wetterling house? If he's innocent in all of this, as he says he is, what is he going to tell them? He didn't know the Wetterling's and they didn't know him.

As far as the boys not confronting DR even as adults, I don't think they have a reason to. I'm sure they know who he is by now and if they had/have any suspicions about him they would most likely share them with LE. I would not assume to know what the boys think of DR.

 

[HEY YOU!]

From my understanding, the house is not visible from the road. It is my opinion that he would not have seen the boys on the road and had no idea they would be there. I know he's a runner but why would he be running at 9pm at night (as it has been previously suggested)? I'm not a runner. Do people go out running that late? What would his reason be for being outside that late at night? Someone came prepared. They were ready and knew what they were doing.

I recall him saying that he was running a lot that day...can one of you get the exact quote? I remember him saying that in an interview. He could have been elsewhere on the property and seen the flashlights approaching the house and went down to the area where the boys heard the rustling in the brush.

 

[shergal]

Why did/does he need to go to the Wetterling house? If he's innocent in all of this, as he says he is, what is he going to tell them? He didn't know the Wetterling's and they didn't know him.

As far as the boys not confronting DR even as adults, I don't think they have a reason to. I'm sure they know who he is by now and if they had/have any suspicions about him they would most likely share them with LE. I would not assume to know what the boys think of DR.

To me, going to the Wetterling home would just be the neighborly thing to do. It's a small town. Even if DR didn't know the Wetterlings before Jacob was abducted, it would seem the right time to stop at their home and offer support since their son did disappear in his family's driveway. Granted, DR does seem socially awkward, and maybe he wouldn't be comfortable doing that. But then he could have called them offering to help in any way he could. Since he says they had never talked in 20 years, that obviously didn't happen either.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

I recall him saying that he was running a lot that day...can one of you get the exact quote? I remember him saying that in an interview. He could have been elsewhere on the property and seen the flashlights approaching the house and went down to the area where the boys heard the rustling in the brush.

So from the time he heard/saw the boys coming down the road, he had time to run downstairs (assuming he saw them from an upstairs window), grab his shoes and jacket or whatever he might have needed, and run down to the end of the driveway to lie in wait in the grass all before the boys rode by on their bikes and scooter? The timing just doesn't work for me.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

To me, going to the Wetterling home would just be the neighborly thing to do. It's a small town. Even if DR didn't know the Wetterlings before Jacob was abducted, it would seem the right time to stop at their home and offer support since their son did disappear in his family's driveway. Granted, DR does seem socially awkward, and maybe he wouldn't be comfortable doing that. But then he could have called them offering to help in any way he could. Since he says they had never talked in 20 years, that obviously didn't happen either.

Sure, it would have been a nice gesture. But it's not a red flag just because he didn't. He's damned if he did and damned if he didn't anyway. How many people would be suspicious of him if he did go visit the Wetterling's? Often times the guilty party inserts themselves in the searches and vigils that are organized for their victims.

 

[HEY YOU!]

Sure, it would have been a nice gesture. But it's not a red flag just because he didn't. He's damned if he did and damned if he didn't anyway. How many people would be suspicious of him if he did go visit the Wetterling's? Often times the guilty party inserts themselves in the searches and vigils that are organized for their victims.

Put yourself in DRs house at the time of the abduction. What would you have done? Would you just go back to your house, do a quick search of the outbuildings and go to sleep? Is it logical to go under the police tape and enter the crime scene? Is it normal to just go about business as usual? I am genuinely curious. What would every one of you on this forum have done in this same situation?

I would have insisted the police check my outbuildings, the woods and all around the home. It is a big property, there could be clues. I would definitely have gone over to the family's home, if not that night then the next day. If there were ever a day to call out, that would be one of them. I would have continued to be there for the Wetterlings, handing out flyers and doing whatever I could. Yes, I know we are all different in this respect. But to offer absolutely NOTHING in response to a neighbor's child being abducted in your driveway? What would you guys do? Honestly?

 

[Jbrown324320]

we can speculate about DR's unusual (and suspicious) behavior all we want. we need concrete piece of evidence linking someone to the crime to get anywhere or to make an arrest. until we find a hard link to Jacob's abduction, I feel we really can't narrow down our list of suspects. In my opinion, he is covering for someone he knows.