MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #4

[CementPond]

LOL Glad I could be of assistance to you. Hehehehe!

Sorry to go O/T
Your profile picture of the "mooning" scarecrow and Nancy has me in tears from laughing so hard! Thank you, I really needed it this morning!

 

[Animal04216]

No it is NOT ok to post that here. I deleted the directions on exactly which post it was on the other site (you guys know better than that considering the perp is a minor and it has not been determined if they will be prosecuted as an adult AT THIS TIME). You can say guys go read the comments on this article, but do not direct anyone to a comment that names this person yet!

Oh thank you! I have seen the perp's name in one form or another in various comments to news articles all day today... (mispelled, first name, last initial, etc) I think it will end up on national media sooner than the hearing.... It seems that it's okay to report as long as it is stated "this information is from multiple sources, but LE will not confirm" ... (aka rumor)

 

[MDATCA]

I did a quick search on the xD. It is most likely used as an emoticon in AB's quote. I found a few things on it.

"xD" or "XD", an emoticon commonly used on the internet to express happiness, self-deprecation, laughter, bewilderment, or sarcasm

This site explains it well.

http://ch00nz.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/xd-the-best-emoticon-of-all/

To show appreciation for an infantile or immoral joke / situation – A friend overhears someone say something that could be interpreted the wrong way by someone that appreciates infantile humour, like a lady offering a co-worker a hug, only to realise her shirt is wet, consequently saying “Want a hug? I’m very wet”. Boring people would not even notice the obvious sexual innuendo, so the face is used to show your friend that you realise this is a seriously funny situation. The story teller will usually conclude the story with a of his own, to which you should reply with if you also appreciate the situation

http://ch00nz.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/xd-the-best-emoticon-of-all/

I think she used it in this context.

If it is XD3 then it brings you to Deviant Art. If you go to the search functon at the top of the page and type in A's first name you get to a page of pics of various things associated with that name. Look at all the pics. I am not sure but I think some may be of a person of interest.
The artist has 2 accounts so look through both of them. The one with the SS name has more of the individual I am wondering about than the MrC one. If it is who I think it could be the pics were from the spring of 2007. I am not 100% sure the subject is AB. What does everyone think?

 

[capoly]

BBM ~

Any idea what that means? The xD3? Do you think she was flatlining? or choking herself?

Salem

BBM

Do believe xd means overdose.....3? maybe number she took?

ETA Sorry, MDATC, just read your post.....considering the emo connection your definition likely applies in this case.

I don't know why but I copied your username to paste (my memory is so bad, I forget names within seconds) and when I pasted it, it came up as a link then went to this underlining text lol...sorry.

 

[MDATCA]

Oh My Dear God In Heaven,

I have been reading at the links you all posted and I am numb.

If even one tenth of the rumors are true this is such a hideous crime that it leaves one speechless.

In the days to come my guess is we are going to hear about all kinds of huge red flags that were ignored about this girl. That's what is so tragic.

People knew, People knew how disturbed she was IMO.

I think this case is so chilling because each because most of us can relate to it. Many of us have children who we allow/ed to play at a neighborhood friend's house or at least know someone who does. How well do any of us really know our neighbors and the members of the household. You think you know them pretty well after all you see them on a regualr basis. I am sure that Elizabeth's mother had spoken with them and had enough of a relationship to allow her children to play over there. She felt comfortable enough in the neighborhood to allow E to walk to and from. My point is that it is very common in every neighborhood for kids to be playing with neighborhood kids.

Most of us know or have known someone who was in a dark place in their life. Most of the time the person grows out of it. I don't know how long E and her family have known AB or the family but if it has been a few years then I am pretty sure that E's mom thought AB was just going through a phase as many teens do. I would never think that someone I know would be capable of what happened. Even though people are saying there were warning signs I can think of things that would be viewed as warning signs after the fact. People probably did talk to AB about the things and she was able to talk her way out. It is a fairly small community and I am sure that as soon as she would be questioned about things she would revert back to the sweet girl everyone knew and people would just write off the sign as a phase. From what I am reading in comment sections there are quite a few teens in the area that have the look AB had. They are not bad kids capable of the actions that AB is alledged to have commited. Even what I have seen of the MS, FB and twitter postings are fairly common among teens.

This case is chilling because none of it follows the usual patterns. We are all feeling scared because the people involved and the events leading up to it are very common. It drives home the point it could be anywhere, anytime and anyone.

I think much of the dark behaviors were probably written off because AB had history of being a student with good grades. People tend to stereotype "bad" people as not doing well in school, looking scary and other negative things. As I stated I get the impression there are many kids in the area that dress the style AB does so that isn't really a clue. As for the dark writings just imagine what Stephen Kings or Anne Rice's english papers were like.

 

[danni]

HOLY CRAP! to those that know the twitter name, search it.

Last night I got one hit, this morning I got a few more.

 

[capoly]

semi-OT...re deviantART

It has got to be incredibly hard for therapists, school counselors etc to determine the Who/What/Why re an actual threat to society/themselves with teens these days.

The 'anime' kids alone would have filled up an institution in my day.

 

[swanniee11]

BBM ~

Any idea what that means? The xD3? Do you think she was flatlining? or choking herself?

Salem

Sorry if this has already been mentioned (playing catchup from last night)

She used a 3 in her MS name as well. When I 1st looked at it I was thinking "*advertiser censored*" lol. I don't know teen slang YET.

 

[evelyn24]

In her MS profile the 3 was used in her name to make a heart <3

 

[Tyra1003]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned (playing catchup from last night)

She used a 3 in her MS name as well. When I 1st looked at it I was thinking "*advertiser censored*" lol. I don't know teen slang YET.

<3 -----it's a heart.

 

[Capri]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned (playing catchup from last night)

She used a 3 in her MS name as well. When I 1st looked at it I was thinking "*advertiser censored*" lol. I don't know teen slang YET.

<3 = a heart turned sideways

 

[danni]

I realllllllly truely do not want to disrespect anyone. But I would like to RESPECTUFLLY disagree!

As for the ICP stuff, just like the Twilight comments yesterday you can't lump everyone interested in this genre all together.

I am 26 years old.....
but during my teen years I listened to ICP, Marilyn Manson, along with many other "Horrorcore" groups I watched horror movies, played any video game I could get my hands on, and hung out in chat rooms talking to people that were more than twice my age.
My dad was/is an alcoholic, my parents divorced when I was 14, and my mom worked three jobs to raise three kids on her own. I was home alone from 5:30am to about 8:00pm (before and after school but all day during the summer) DAILY all the while listening to horrorcore music and playing video games or chatting online in adult chat rooms.
I DO NOT GO AROUND KILLING PEOPLE nor did I kill people or think about killing people during these years of my life. I don't want a pitty party, it has made me who I am today, a loving stay at home mom to three kids. I do want people to understand that no matter how crappy your background is a person has choices to make.

"Jesse Pomeroy was fourteen when he was arrested in 1874 for the sadistic murder of a four-year-old boy."
"Willie Bosket had committed over two thousand crimes in New York by the time he was fifteen, including stabbing several people." <-also shot a man to death when he was fifteen.
"Cindy Collier was 15 and Shirley Wolf 14 when they started prowling condominiums in California in 1983. They knocked on doors at random to gain admittance. An elderly woman let them in and sat chatting with them as they thought up a plan to steal her car. Shirley grabbed her by the neck while Cindy found a butcher knife and tossed it to her. Shirley stabbed her victim 28 times, even as the old woman begged for her life. They fled the scene, but were soon arrested. Both confessed that the murder was "a Kick" and that they wanted to do another one. They thought it was fun."
"In 1964, when Edmund Kemper was 15, he shot his grandparents, killing them both. He'd been imagining this act for some time and had no regrets."
(snippits from "THE UNTHINKABLE: CHILDREN WHO KILL" By Katherine Ramsland. read more at http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html)

There was no "goth", "emo", "Twilight", "horrorcore", ICP, or video games, around when most of these children were killing. I wonder what society blamed it on back then?

sorry its so long but I could go on for days. Read about Dave Pelzer, spent the vast majority of his youth chained to a toilet forced to eat rotting meat, and drink ammonia when he was not starved by his mother who stabbed him. Yet he never killed anyone. Talk about a background!

 

[mysterygirl]

I did a quick search on the xD. It is most likely used as an emoticon in AB's quote. I found a few things on it.

"xD" or "XD", an emoticon commonly used on the internet to express happiness, self-deprecation, laughter, bewilderment, or sarcasm

This site explains it well.

http://ch00nz.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/xd-the-best-emoticon-of-all/

To show appreciation for an infantile or immoral joke / situation – A friend overhears someone say something that could be interpreted the wrong way by someone that appreciates infantile humour, like a lady offering a co-worker a hug, only to realise her shirt is wet, consequently saying “Want a hug? I’m very wet”. Boring people would not even notice the obvious sexual innuendo, so the face is used to show your friend that you realise this is a seriously funny situation. The story teller will usually conclude the story with a of his own, to which you should reply with if you also appreciate the situation

http://ch00nz.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/xd-the-best-emoticon-of-all/

I think she used it in this context.

If it is XD3 then it brings you to Deviant Art. If you go to the search functon at the top of the page and type in A's first name you get to a page of pics of various things associated with that name. Look at all the pics. I am not sure but I think some may be of a person of interest.
The artist has 2 accounts so look through both of them. The one with the SS name has more of the individual I am wondering about than the MrC one. If it is who I think it could be the pics were from the spring of 2007. I am not 100% sure the subject is AB. What does everyone think?

What site brings you to Deviant Art with the search function? The one linked or were you referring to something else?

 

[MDATCA]

I realllllllly truely do not want to disrespect anyone. But I would like to RESPECTUFLLY disagree!

As for the ICP stuff, just like the Twilight comments yesterday you can't lump everyone interested in this genre all together.

I am 26 years old.....
but during my teen years I listened to ICP, Marilyn Manson, along with many other "Horrorcore" groups I watched horror movies, played any video game I could get my hands on, and hung out in chat rooms talking to people that were more than twice my age.
My dad was/is an alcoholic, my parents divorced when I was 14, and my mom worked three jobs to raise three kids on her own. I was home alone from 5:30am to about 8:00pm (before and after school but all day during the summer) DAILY all the while listening to horrorcore music and playing video games or chatting online in adult chat rooms.
I DO NOT GO AROUND KILLING PEOPLE nor did I kill people or think about killing people during these years of my life. I don't want a pitty party, it has made me who I am today, a loving stay at home mom to three kids. I do want people to understand that no matter how crappy your background is a person has choices to make.

"Jesse Pomeroy was fourteen when he was arrested in 1874 for the sadistic murder of a four-year-old boy."
"Willie Bosket had committed over two thousand crimes in New York by the time he was fifteen, including stabbing several people." <-also shot a man to death when he was fifteen.
"Cindy Collier was 15 and Shirley Wolf 14 when they started prowling condominiums in California in 1983. They knocked on doors at random to gain admittance. An elderly woman let them in and sat chatting with them as they thought up a plan to steal her car. Shirley grabbed her by the neck while Cindy found a butcher knife and tossed it to her. Shirley stabbed her victim 28 times, even as the old woman begged for her life. They fled the scene, but were soon arrested. Both confessed that the murder was "a Kick" and that they wanted to do another one. They thought it was fun."
"In 1964, when Edmund Kemper was 15, he shot his grandparents, killing them both. He'd been imagining this act for some time and had no regrets."
(snippits from "THE UNTHINKABLE: CHILDREN WHO KILL" By Katherine Ramsland. read more at http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html)

There was no "goth", "emo", "Twilight", "horrorcore", ICP, or video games, around when most of these children were killing. I wonder what society blamed it on back then?

sorry its so long but I could go on for days. Read about Dave Pelzer, spent the vast majority of his youth chained to a toilet forced to eat rotting meat, and drink ammonia when he was not starved by his mother who stabbed him. Yet he never killed anyone. Talk about a background!

I agree. I know many kids who are lumped into one or more of those groups. That is kind of what I was getting at. Those looks are common. Every community has kids that dress differently. Evil comes in all shapes, sizes, colors and clothing.

 

[MDATCA]

What site brings you to Deviant Art with the search function? The one linked or were you referring to something else?

I am sorry I googled the term "XD3 emoticon" and the first hit was Deviant Art.

 

[tlcya]

Hi all, I am new to WS and this is my first post. I don't know that I am a slueth but I follow cases and usually have pretty good instincts about people and their motivations, etc.

This case is just tragedy all the way around. I am scared to death to let my nine year old daughter even out in the front yard at this point unless I am right there with her. I sat her down last night and had a long talk with her about the dangers of the world. I will forever remember the look on her face as I explained that NO ONE can be trusted except a few select relatives. She was shocked that one kid could lure away and murder another. She had a lot of questions and I had no answers. I do not know the whys. What did Elizabeth do to raise such anger in AB? Did she do or say something? What could a nine year old say or do to a fifteen year old to warrant murder? Ovbiously the answer is nothing. And yet this horrible thing has happened.

I am having trouble wrapping my mind around it, how do I make it make sense to my daughter? There is no sense in it, it is senseless.

I am raising my children to respect themselves and others, to be tolerant, compassionate, good citizens of the world. More and more I question - am I doing right by them? Am I raising them according to values that no longer apply? Am I rearing "unicorns" who will be unable to fend for themselves or feel safe in the world we now live in??

 

[Mamabear1963]

I agree. I know many kids who are lumped into one or more of those groups. That is kind of what I was getting at. Those looks are common. Every community has kids that dress differently. Evil comes in all shapes, sizes, colors and clothing.

bbm
I agree! There may be warning signs parents/teachers can look for but evil can be portrayed as an angel of light.

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't think that what clothes she wore, or the music she listened to, or what group she was associated with had anything to do with this,maybe some are wanting an excuse or reason for the inexcusable murder of an innocent 9 year old beautiful girl. It is hard for me to wrap my mind around this. It does seem that kids today are allowed more freedom to express themselves then when I was that age (15). She should be charged as an adult, jmo, Her troubled mind is no excuse for murder.

 

[VespaElf]

President's Award for

Educational Excellence

This award was started to help students achieve academically by rewarding them.

Only students in the exit grade are eligible for this award.

They must earn a 3.5 or better grade point average and achieve in the 85th percentile or higher in math or reading on a standardized test.

According to the News Tribune, AB won this award (along with other classmates) recently at her school. Also it appears the two girls attended the same school.

The initial rumors were that AB had been held back a few grades........this doesnt jibe with that.MOO was that shes is actually VERY intelligent yet emotionally immature/"troubled"(possibly bi-polar) butb I guess only time will tell what is fact & what is rumor!

 

[nursebeeme]

The initial rumors were that AB had been held back a few grades........this doesnt jibe with that.MOO was that shes is actually VERY intelligent yet emotionally immature/"troubled"(possibly bi-polar) butb I guess only time will tell what is fact & what is rumor!

ITA.. 15 y/o and a sophomore is right on target (ie, doesn't fit with being held back)

Also, welcome to all the newbies!!!! Welcome to Websleuths!!! We are very glad to have you guys here!!!