MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[DebinGA]

MB died on a Saturday, Aug. 9, and the store video/story was released the following Friday iirc.

 

[bettybaby00]

That guy may have some insight, however he appears to be very wrong in some of what he was saying. If Brown was paying for three boxes of Swisher Sweets, why did DJ put his box back? Why did the camera not show Brown paying for them? Why did the store owner try to prevent Brown from leaving the store? If Wilson got out of the SUV and shot Brown while he was on his knees with his hands in the air, they why was Brown so far away from the SUV? Why is this guy saying that Brown was shot 9 (or is he actually saying 8) times? Why is there no screaming/yelling to Wilson to not shoot "bro" on that audio tape that has been turned over to the FBI?

I don't believe half of what this guy is saying.

MOO

All the chatter about the store owner/clerk is kinda meaningless to me b/c even if he didn't call it in, there was an incident report. He clearly didn't say to the cop who showed up, "oh no officer there's noting wrong, you shouldn't have come."

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/236907978

 

[katydid23]

If that audio tape is valid, it is curious that there is no recording of any voices outside. No one yells FREEZE and no one yells OKAY DONT SHOOT DONT SHOOT....

 

[EvilSoup]

I find it very odd too. I agree with you that I would think anything GJ related would come from the prosecutor. Have no idea what this could be about and my kid has his first high school game at 4. Heading out now so once again will rely on you good folk to pass on the nitty gritty. Thanks once again.

Hope the game was a good one! What sport?

 

[DeDee]

On one of our threads here, I read that OW weighs 175#. May be so, may not. At any rate, there is a minimum height and weight set for police officers, or so I've heard before. If this is so, he is at least the minimum or more. And further, if this is so ... what are the requirements in Ferguson?

Anyone here familiar with the JonBenét murder may recall that Lou Smit got his cousin to hit him on top of the head with a hammer so the resulting knot/lump that formed would add inches to his height so he could be eligible to join the police dept. Lou Smit also claimed an intruder killed JBR. A classic case of a deceptive detective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Smit

 

[aa9511]

WTH 9 year old kids should NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT be allowed to practice with real guns..............OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG. Common sense, people!

OMMGGG may I also add that the dentist says until kids are 8 years old, an adult needs to help them brush their teeth because they don't have the motor or whatever skills to adequately clean their own teeth when they're younger than that.

But yet people think 9 year olds are capable of handling guns, which require hand-eye coordination and strength and other skills???

OMMGGGG.

Brushing teeth vs. shooting guns

 

[Boytwnmom]

It certainly did not hold that juvenile court records become public once the juvenile has died. It was about using parts of a juvenile court record that consisted of statements by an adult who was trying to keep the records sealed:

The statutory protection of § 211.271.3 applies only to the use of a child's statements and court records and reports against the child. Statements made by others in a juvenile court proceeding and court records and reports may be used against others. Id. State v. Mahurin, 799 S.W.2d 840, 843-44 (Mo. banc 1990), cert. denied, ___ U.S. ___, 112 S.Ct. 90, 116 L.Ed.2d 62

(1991). Thus, those juvenile court records and reports which do not relate to the juvenile's 103*103 own statements against himself are not subject to the privilege.

In the case cited, the parents were being prosecuted for child abuse/endangerment and were arguing that evidence, consisting of prior incriminating statements/admissions contained in a prior juvenile case record, should remain sealed. The court found that statements of people other than the juvenile are not protected and can thus be used against them:

Appellants contend the trial court erred in admitting records of a juvenile court proceeding. They argue the provision in section 211.271(3) that "all reports and records of the juvenile court, are not lawful or proper evidence against the child and shall not be used for any purpose whatsoever in any proceeding ..." constitutes an absolute prohibition on the use of juvenile records for any purpose, against anyone. The quoted language shows the statute applies only to use of a child's statements against the child. Smith v. Harold's Supermarket, Inc., 685 S.W.2d 859, 863 (Mo.App.1984). Bertha's statements in records that were part of an investigation that resulted in the removal of her children from her home were used against her. This use does not fall within the ambit of 844*844 the statute's prohibition and its intended protection to a child.

I am not really seeing the applicability here. But, hey, people can argue whatever they want.

Interesting tidbit from Charles Johnson piece



http://gotnews.com/got-news-court-free-michaelbrown-documents-now/

 

[K_Z]

Late joining the topic this evening but wanted to make sure this was posted. TIA if it is already here. I will not link the reporter's website but it is accessible via the AOL link provided or by google.

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/08/...enile-criminal-record/20953546/?ncid=webmail1

"An explosive new lawsuit filed in St. Louis seeking the release of Michael Brown's juvenile criminal record alleges the slain teen was a gang member and faced a second degree murder charge."

IMHO, great to have independent investigative reporters!

Link posted earlier today says the next court hearing on this lawsuit is Sept 3. I'll see if I can find that. The lawsuit document is posted in the thread from a day or 2 ago, as well as in the media thread.

ETA-- link in post above this one.

 

[Hejlena]

I guess author Kevin Deutsch must be an "embedded reporter." Just following the criminals and rioters and looters around with a microphone, or maybe a little spiral notebook and pencil, or something. Watching them assemble and hurl flaming improvised explosive devices at police? WTH? More "Hug a looter" stuff? Glorifying the crooks and "the fight" against the authorities, with adventurous, "fight the good fight" war storybook language? Sick. This isn't the kind of journalism we need, IMO.

Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, though. There wasn't a single person, IMO, in either St. Louis or Ferguson, that didn't know any of the stuff in that "investigative report."

*Hug a looter**
Bwahahahahahah :laughing: :laughing:

 

[Oceans]

There have been some updates to the transcript:

CNN TONIGHT

An American Jihadist; FBI Analyzing Audio Recording of Brown Shooting

Aired August 26, 2014 - 22:00 ET

HOSTIN: Alex, I mean, you know, that may be the case, but you have so many eyewitnesses, quite frankly, that...

LEMON: Sunny, can I say this?

HOSTIN: ... are not saying that. They're saying something that's different.

LEMON: Well, the eyewitnesses -- those are the eyewitnesses -- eyewitnesses, excuse me, we know of.

FERRER: Of course.

LEMON: Because some of the eyewitnesses that we are hearing from sources, there are at least a handful or maybe a dozen eyewitnesses who are corroborating the police officer's side of the story, but they don't want to be part of the media spectacle. They don't want their names out there.

FERRER: That is true. And I think that this...

HOSTIN: Well, I haven't -- I haven't heard from any witnesses like that. Perhaps other people have. But, again, from what we know at this point, I think that the pause in the shots, quite frankly, corroborate a lot of the evidence or depictions, at least at this point.

FERRER: I totally -- I totally disagree. I totally disagree.

JOHNSON: Yes, I'm with Alex.

FERRER: The pause in the shooting is going to be spun by both sides.

People form their opinions originally based on their own life perceptions. The people who feel this was an unjustified shooting are going to say that pause gave the officer time to premeditate the shooting. The people who feel it's a justified shooting are going to say he shot him and stopped, and since he was still coming, he shot some more.

And the reality is that the harm is not that people form their opinions immediately. The harm is that people formed fixed opinions. And then when facts like this come in, they're not willing to change their mind. They're willing to form it into their story or say, "Oh, it's not credible; it's not believable." That's the problem. JOHNSON: And it's a reasonable officer too. I mean, it's a

reasonable person standard. So it comes from the officer's testimony. And the officer, unfortunately, is the only person who's alive between the two of them.

LEMON: But there are reports out there, as well.

FERRER: No, we're going to have other forensics. We're going to have other forensics, and we're going to have other witnesses. We just have to wait for all that to come in.

And I'm not a big believer that the police should be letting out all their evidence. Because when they do, this is why police say, "An investigation is pending. We can't comment." Because when they let out the evidence they have, people come out of the woodworks with stories that fit into that evidence.

HOSTIN: But let's...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Stand by. Hold that thought. We'll get into it. I'm going to let you guys -- I'm going to let you finish. But there are, you know, there are reports that people are fitting their testimony to what they hear witnesses on television saying. We're going to talk about that.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/26/cnnt.01.html

BBM

 

[RANCH]

If I may, with respect, say that most of us who are white do not have parents or grandparents who could not use white toilets, eat at white lunch counters, attend white schools or have their supposed constitutionally-assured votes "lost" in the ballot box. And worst of all, stand the very real chance of being the victim of physical violence/death at the hands of vigilante mobs or even LE.

This is our past, this is their past. Our experiences shape who we are, who we trust and how we respond. And although things are better with each generation, please remember, there are men MB's age who have family members who are still alive who lived through discrimination that hopefully, this country will never see again. But when you have a knowledge and understanding of what prior generations of your family/community experienced, it becomes a part of you.

I really don't mean to soapbox it(although I guess I am), but I can honestly say that I am thankful everyday for being a member of a privileged group. My ancestors came to this country and fought for its independence because they WANTED to. They were landowners, and yes, slave owners. They had choices, voices and respect. They obeyed the laws because they MADE them. The laws benefitted their interests.

All I want to bring home here is that not every person springs fully formed from a place of benign neutrality. When societal strictures behoove your agenda, it is awfully easy to walk the straight and narrow. After all, your dad painted the line.

But when you come from generation after generation of mistreatment and oppression, you may not view the world the same as a person who has never had to worry that looking someone in the eye can mean you are being insubordinate. I cannot imagine what it must be like to share that mistrust generationally.

Stepping down off soapbox now. Sorry.

This post does not mean I believe MB's death was because he was black. It means that I understand the upset of the black community. Whether OW was right or wrong, remains to be confirmed. But I try very hard in my life to understand where people are "coming from" before I dismiss their views. I hope they will do the same for me.

I think that the United States has gone absolutely nowhere with black and white relations in the past fifty years. We are having riots based on the color of peoples skin and not based on the facts of a case. I think that we will continue to see this kind of violence because I have no idea how it can stopped. JMO.

 

[bettybaby00]

It certainly did not hold that juvenile court records become public once the juvenile has died. It was about using parts of a juvenile court record that consisted of statements by an adult who was trying to keep the records sealed:



In the case cited, the parents were being prosecuted for child abuse/endangerment and were arguing that evidence, consisting of prior incriminating statements/admissions contained in a prior juvenile case record, should remain sealed. The court found that statements of people other than the juvenile are not protected and can thus be used against them:



I am not really seeing the applicability here. But, hey, people can argue whatever they want.

Thanks for the update. I had thought you had said death doesn't automatically make it public record

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think that the United States has gone absolutely nowhere with black and white relations in the past fifty years. We are having riots based on the color of peoples skin and not based on the facts of a case. I think that we will continue to see this kind of violence because I have no idea how it can stopped. JMO.

As long as the "leaders" are race baiters and agitators with no solutions continue to do nothing but fan the flames without doing a DAMN thing to help Solve the problem.

IMO race relations have come a long way.

Poverty & ignorance is the problem...not race. IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bettybaby00]

There have been some updates to the transcript:

CNN TONIGHT

An American Jihadist; FBI Analyzing Audio Recording of Brown Shooting

Aired August 26, 2014 - 22:00 ET

HOSTIN: Alex, I mean, you know, that may be the case, but you have so many eyewitnesses, quite frankly, that...

LEMON: Sunny, can I say this?

HOSTIN: ... are not saying that. They're saying something that's different.

LEMON: Well, the eyewitnesses -- those are the eyewitnesses -- eyewitnesses, excuse me, we know of.

FERRER: Of course.

LEMON: Because some of the eyewitnesses that we are hearing from sources, there are at least a handful or maybe a dozen eyewitnesses who are corroborating the police officer's side of the story, but they don't want to be part of the media spectacle. They don't want their names out there.

FERRER: That is true. And I think that this...

HOSTIN: Well, I haven't -- I haven't heard from any witnesses like that. Perhaps other people have. But, again, from what we know at this point, I think that the pause in the shots, quite frankly, corroborate a lot of the evidence or depictions, at least at this point.

FERRER: I totally -- I totally disagree. I totally disagree.

JOHNSON: Yes, I'm with Alex.

FERRER: The pause in the shooting is going to be spun by both sides.

People form their opinions originally based on their own life perceptions. The people who feel this was an unjustified shooting are going to say that pause gave the officer time to premeditate the shooting. The people who feel it's a justified shooting are going to say he shot him and stopped, and since he was still coming, he shot some more.

And the reality is that the harm is not that people form their opinions immediately. The harm is that people formed fixed opinions. And then when facts like this come in, they're not willing to change their mind. They're willing to form it into their story or say, "Oh, it's not credible; it's not believable." That's the problem. JOHNSON: And it's a reasonable officer too. I mean, it's a

reasonable person standard. So it comes from the officer's testimony. And the officer, unfortunately, is the only person who's alive between the two of them.

LEMON: But there are reports out there, as well.

FERRER: No, we're going to have other forensics. We're going to have other forensics, and we're going to have other witnesses. We just have to wait for all that to come in.

And I'm not a big believer that the police should be letting out all their evidence. Because when they do, this is why police say, "An investigation is pending. We can't comment." Because when they let out the evidence they have, people come out of the woodworks with stories that fit into that evidence.

HOSTIN: But let's...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Stand by. Hold that thought. We'll get into it. I'm going to let you guys -- I'm going to let you finish. But there are, you know, there are reports that people are fitting their testimony to what they hear witnesses on television saying. We're going to talk about that.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/26/cnnt.01.html

BBM

This Ferrer guy is absolutely right with regard to evaluating witness accounts.

And Sonny, :facepalm: "HOSTIN: Well, I haven't -- I haven't heard from any witnesses like that. Perhaps other people have."

I can imagine the indignation in her voice. She seems to have a wee problem recognizing that this isn't about her, and every available witness isn't going to speak with her personally.

 

[Linda7NJ]

“Perception is part of what plays into this. I want to know what the officer says, I want to know what the other officer says, I want to know what every witness has to say, that's not captured on video,” said Chief Burbank.

That’s why Burbank won't say if he believed his officer was justified in shooting and killing Taylor. He says some of the attention should be diverted to the victim. What was Taylor doing that lead to the shooting?

”If an officer gives you direction, even if you don't think its right, you should comply,” said Chief Burbank.

But he did offer these words to Taylor’s family and friends:

“I am very sorry that happened. That is not the intent of the police department. I know, having spoken first hand with the officer involved it was not his intent to take that young man's life,” said Chief Burbank.

Chief Burbank says he will not release any more information about the Dillon Taylor shooting because he says it would be inappropriate because there are several investigations ongoing.

http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/st...k-talks-dillon-s/30023/QZNZoKpmtkSO8HSs5oXKgA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Footwarrior]

If that audio tape is valid, it is curious that there is no recording of any voices outside. No one yells FREEZE and no one yells OKAY DONT SHOOT DONT SHOOT....

It is not really that odd. The sound of gunfire travels a lot better that the sound of a human voice. That recording could have been made several blocks away from the shooting.

 

[gngr~snap]

He really does have some insight- that was uploaded Aug 11, before we knew of the cigarillos. Also, interesting that Black Canseco mentions "World Star" as he's recording his 10 minute video. I'm not sure what World Star is, but they uploaded this guy very early in the aftermath of the shooting. The guy in this video is so fired up, seems like he could have recorded this on Aug 9. Just speculating...

He is rolling on the sizzurp isn't he? Look at huge bottle of cough syrup!!

All posts are MOO

 

[EvilSoup]

Yes Katy and that shooting death has been ignored in MSM.

Can you please link to the WS thread? I have searched MSM and though there are many articles, they offer no details. I really want to read more.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I doubt that is true. I think it just matters if they can pass the physical.

My BIL was a cop for 20+ years before he retired a few years ago. He's not even 5'2"!

this is in response to the minimum height for a cop post. Still getting used to the reply vs. reply and quote thing!

 

[Phoebeb]

Yes, I believe you could be right! Look at the "Crazy: Witness" video again at about :55 mark. He is quite sure it is the Ferguson Market MB was accused of stealing the cigarillos from and then goes on to describe exactly what we saw on the surveillance video, "My dude went in, you know what I'm saying, he picked up a box of rillos, was like let me get these, gave em to his homeboy. And he was like (acts out reaching behind counter just like surveillance video shows) I'm gonna need these two too, two boxes. So my "n" walked out of this Bleepity bleep GC... " and he goes on. He acts out exactly what happened in the store well before the video was realeased. I think this may be the unknown guy. I'm not sure if I believe he was with MB and DJ, maybe he happened to arrive and leave at the same time. Or maybe he got the whole thing acted out by DJ and he wasn't there at the store at all. He sure had the events of the register transaction down to a tee, imo...

Here is the surveillance video link to compare the two (I don't see the same long ponytail in the surv video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkOfqIXkBRE

Could this guy be Unknown Guy from the store video? He seems to have lots of insight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8BG-B50xHo