MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[zenreaper]

Haven't posted here in a while, thought I would start back up.

One thing I have not seen asked or addressed or considered is the TACTICAL situation OW was facing. He exits the vehicle with TWO suspects that he is aware of. That explains, quite simply, why ENDING the situation with MB the way he did made sense. There was another suspect out there, hiding. The other suspect could have been armed, could have been going to GET a gun, etc.

On the issue of the recently released audio tape, am I the ONLY one who thought, "What kind of neighborhood do you live in where 10 or 11 SHOTS do not even cause you to break stride in your sentence, or change your tempo?" Sorry, but until authentication, it sounds fake (solely my opinion).

 

[EvilSoup]

IIRC, for some reason the PO suspected him of something, and was telling him to halt, and the kid had his damn headphones on, and didn't hear him.

Do you have a link to the story? I get very fired up over these kinds of cases. I want to read up. Your post offers more than I could find in a dozen articles, but where did you read that?

 

[gngr~snap]

http://www.myreporter.com/2012/07/why-does-it-take-weeks-for-toxicology-reports/

Interesting...

I was looking for specific information on toxicology at autopsy for "bath salts" and synthetic drugs...


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They are available but did they run them?
http://www.nmslabs.com/services-forensic-designer-drugs
Spice:* JWH-018 is out.**XLR-11 and UR-144 are in.


Bath Salts:* 38% Positivity Rate -*Alpha-PVP, Methylone & DMAA are the biggest culprits.



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[reedus23]

“Perception is part of what plays into this. I want to know what the officer says, I want to know what the other officer says, I want to know what every witness has to say, that's not captured on video,” said Chief Burbank.

That’s why Burbank won't say if he believed his officer was justified in shooting and killing Taylor. He says some of the attention should be diverted to the victim. What was Taylor doing that lead to the shooting?

”If an officer gives you direction, even if you don't think its right, you should comply,” said Chief Burbank.

But he did offer these words to Taylor’s family and friends:

“I am very sorry that happened. That is not the intent of the police department. I know, having spoken first hand with the officer involved it was not his intent to take that young man's life,” said Chief Burbank.

Chief Burbank says he will not release any more information about the Dillon Taylor shooting because he says it would be inappropriate because there are several investigations ongoing.

http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/st...k-talks-dillon-s/30023/QZNZoKpmtkSO8HSs5oXKgA


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Yeah, I just lost a long post in response to this. Probably for the better. Suffice it to say I get it. Do what a cop says no matter how unlawful the order if I want to see tomorrow. That really sounds like the kind of society I want to live in. Someone forgot to put a little asterisk in the Constitution that says "Oh, by the way. All those rights we just gave you, they really don't mean anything. At least they don't mean anything if you want to live." Final note on that case...yet another example of the cops giving out information as long as it calls the deceased into question or favors the department while at the same time saying they won't release any information in order to preserve the integrity of the investigation. Don't give me the "integrity of the investigation" BS when you, at the same time, are releasing information.

 

[gngr~snap]

Do you have a link to the story? I get very fired up over these kinds of cases. I want to read up. Your post offers more than I could find in a dozen articles, but where did you read that?

Did I hear the cop was cleared today? Maybe it was someone else.
You can bet that the video of the shooting is still out there and very alive if you know the deep web...

http://www./1435685/justice-for-dil...tally-shot-by-black-cop-in-utah-been-ignored/
http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_13113.shtml?wap=0

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[Irish_Eyes]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...ast-weeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html

* calling father at 1 a.m. agitated over vision he'd had of Satan chasing an angel
* "dabbled in drugs and alcohol"
* "got into at least one scuffle with a neighbor"
* "his grades were kind of edgy"
* talked about getting a job where his friend Brandon worked - but didn't
* talked about working at Family Dollar his cousin manages - but didn't
* graduated from the worst high school in the area, after previously attending at least 3 others in the area, almost as bad

I personally know a teenager about whom all of that was true (with the exception of the Satan/angel thing, and the scuffle with a neighbor.) That kid actually has a felony record too. Him and some dumb teenage friends on a night of vandalism, and he was the only one of the bunch who was 18 - his birthday had been 3 weeks earlier.

Today, he's totally different. He's in his twenties, has a toddler daughter who he is very involved with, has a job, works hard, keeps his nose clean. He's taken the GED twice and failed it (he's always been in special ed his whole life), but he's doing his third GED class soon.

MB never had a chance to get out of those angsty teen years and get a more mature perspective. We really don't know who he would have been as an adult - as an employee, a father, a grandfather, etc. Even if some video came out tomorrow that showed the whole shooting and DW was 100% right, it doesn't make the death of MB any less tragic.

 

[Oceans]

THANK YOU so much for finding this and posting it. I watched that segment and I was so impressed by Judge Alex. He is like the voice of reason, imo.

And I have never known him to go off the deep end and say things that are far-fetched. He is not like that from what I have seen. So it makes me believe that there is in fact a small group of credible witnesses who saw MB blindside OW and shove him back in the car, etc. jmo :cow:

You are most welcome! I'm glad the transcript got updated.

I like Judge Alex Ferrer as well a lot. I think he is very knowledgeable, level-headed, fair and honest.

I was hoping that there were other witnesses who corroborate ODW's story. I believe, FBI did a great job by going door to door, questioning people in that area. I also wonder if FBI could collect cell phones from the people in the area to check IF someone possible videotaped the event but did not want to admit it. Just a thought and JMO.

 

[reedus23]

I would need a link for all of those allegations you mention above.




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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/24/justin-cosma-ferguson-police_n_5705409.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yeah, I just lost a long post in response to this. Probably for the better. Suffice it to say I get it. Do what a cop says no matter how unlawful the order if I want to see tomorrow. That really sounds like the kind of society I want to live in. Someone forgot to put a little asterisk in the Constitution that says "Oh, by the way. All those rights we just gave you, they really don't mean anything. At least they don't mean anything if you want to live." Final note on that case...yet another example of the cops giving out information as long as it calls the deceased into question or favors the department while at the same time saying they won't release any information in order to preserve the integrity of the investigation. Don't give me the "integrity of the investigation" BS when you, at the same time, are releasing information.

You seem to forget just how dangerous their job is. Every single interaction could be their last.

If a person is incapable of following basic directions from authorities

Or...

If someone is so delicate and gets their feelings hurt & panties all in a bunch because they're incapable of following the law or directions...

Perhaps those people shouldn't leave their house...




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[Linda7NJ]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/24/justin-cosma-ferguson-police_n_5705409.html

Wow!

Thanks for the link!
Horrendous!!!!!


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[Linda7NJ]

You are most welcome! I'm glad the transcript got updated.

I like Judge Alex Ferrer as well a lot. I think he is very knowledgeable, level-headed, fair and honest.

I was hoping that there were other witnesses who corroborate ODW's story. I believe, FBI did a great job by going door to door, questioning people in that area. I also wonder if FBI could collect cell phones from the people in the area to check IF someone possible videotaped the event but did not want to admit it. Just a thought and JMO.

No, the FBI can't just take people's stuff.


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[EvilSoup]

And yet it's on the way to sometime IMO in the near future becoming legal in every state....

Meh. I'll be dead before TX legalizes. We have schoolbook issues to deal with first. *sigh*

 

[deoneta]

I assume they can screen for certain drugs but do they only screen for illegal drugs? Synthetic pot & NYQUIL and whatever else kids use to lace their pot are legal. So do they show up in a screen? I know when reading about bizarre behavior it's often associated with substances other than "plain old pot". I am interested in knowing if there is any kind of chemical involved here, beyond pot. I know they said he had pot in his system but not the THC levels or whether there was anything else. So, no way to know right now if he was high at the time or had just been high the night before.

This is a very interesting article on forensic toxicology:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1680257-overview#a1

My take on what might apply to the findings in this case:
The initial toxicology screens are performed using commercially produced kits which screen for alcohol and commonly abused drugs. These tests only reveal if a substance is present, but not the quantity. Further tests which take longer to process can determine the amount of a drug present using blood or urine samples. Other drugs and chemicals can be detected, but only if the examiner has reason to suspect the substance and orders the test. As an example, I thought of a murder described on one of those ID documentaries. A man murdered his wife by arson. The deceased was found to have several times the normal dose of benadryl which the husband used to prevent his wife from waking and escaping the fire. Benadryl is a common and legal drug, but the victim was tested because an empty bottle was found at the murder scene. All MOO

 

[reedus23]

The question is .....was Officer Wilson in reasonable fear for his life when he pulled the trigger.

The answer is undoubtably yes.

All IMO


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3. A law enforcement officer in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody is justified in using deadly force only

(1) When such is authorized under other sections of this chapter; or

(2) When he reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested

(a) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony; or

(b) Is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon; or

(c) May otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.

As I read this statute, and maybe I'm wrong, first, the officer must reasonably believe that the use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest. By virtue of the red "and", in addition to that reasonable belief, the cop must also reasonably believe one of those 3 things, the third of which mirrors what you were saying. My only point is that, at least the way I'm reading the statute, the statute requires a or b or c but it also requires the first reasonable belief as well.

 

[EvilSoup]

Oh yeah, there were videos. The victim had head phones on, his friends were on the ground ordered to do so by LE. Dillon just sat there with his head phones on. He is mixed white/Latino. There was no aggressive action by victim toward the police. Police (Black) shot him dead in the video. The video has been yanked.
I watched the whole sordid tale.

Could you link to the WS thread? Lots of people lamenting lack of coverage, surely someone started a thread?

 

[EvilSoup]

Some have commented that pot isn't a drug they'd expect to precipitate a violent episode. Generally, I would agree. Lots of people do probably smoke pot, get mellow, order a pizza delivery and binge watch House of Cards on Netflix or whatever. However, pot does lower inhibitions and impairs judgement. There are also unpredictable results from adding cough syrup or spice or a myriad of possible popular additions to the blunt. All MOO

Love "House of Cards".

Haven't smoked pot in 20 years. Because it's illegal. But I'd rather have girls' doobie night IN, watching movies than girls' night OUT drinking margaritas. But I am so rogue like that. :truce:

 

[Truthy]

The question is .....was Officer Wilson in reasonable fear for his life when he pulled the trigger.

The answer is undoubtably yes.

All IMO


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Not if the "threat" was running away. I don't think four witnesses are telling the same lie, nope. That first volley of shots sounds exactly like what they described before he paused, and Mike turned around, which is when the second volley started. IMHO.

 

[EvilSoup]

For the same reason they drink Purple Drank? It has alcohol in it? Honestly who knows. It sounds like something that a bored idiot came up with that then got passed on to "celebrities" who then passed it on to those that listen to their music/watch their shows/look up to them.

MOO

Same reason we can't have big houses, we have to have McMansions. Guns aren't good enough; we need machine guns. TV isn't enough, we need 847 channels.

We are spoiled, bored and desensitized. Yay, us.

 

[reedus23]

You seem to forget just how dangerous their job is. Every single interaction could be their last.

If a person is incapable of following basic directions from authorities

Or...

If someone is so delicate and gets their feelings hurt & panties all in a bunch because they're incapable of following the law or directions...

Perhaps those people shouldn't leave their house...




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Not sure if serious or sarcastic. You saying it is ok for police to disregard constitutional rights because they have a tough job? Or that there is no such thing as an unconstitutional request/order from a police officer because whatever an officer says is constitutional regardless of what is in the constitution itself? That anyone who doesn't think constitutional rights should be trampled simply have their panties in a wad? I'm not talking about simple instructions to turn your stereo down because it's too loud this late at night. What that comment I bolded suggests is that it is ok for that officer that stops you for a traffic ticket to also order you to let him squeeze your breasts, as one courageous poster earlier indicated she had to endure. No. That is not ok with me and if that is me getting my panties in a wad, so be it. My panties are in a wad. Well, actually they are my wife's. I just like to wear them. I kid. Maybe. Seriously though, I get it, if you want to live to see tomorrow, you let him squeeze your breasts, but hell no that doesn't make it acceptable and no way in hell it should be condoned. If a cop is so off his rocker that when I tell him no, you can't touch my wife's breast, that he's susceptible to shooting me for disobeying his order, well the SOB maybe shouldn't be a cop.

ETA - Just jumping off Linda. Not jumping at you. Sorry it sounds that way.

 

[gngr~snap]

Not if the "threat" was running away. I don't think four witnesses are telling the same lie, nope. That first volley of shots sounds exactly like what they described before he paused, and Mike turned around, which is when the second volley started. IMHO.

This happened here today. He wasn't running away he was stabbing. I think in this case the officer did the right thing.

http://m.ajc.com/news/news/police-officer-involved-shooting-at-woodruff-park/ng9xP/
Video of shooting.
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=55a_140917826

I didn't see a thread but I doubt we need one. No charges will be filed against police. Moo
Suspect alive.
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