MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

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Herein lies the problem. I truly think a lot of people are trying to get "justice" for TM by sacrificing Officer Wilson to do so. It's not fair, Octobermoon.

BBM
That is what tears me up too, JLSChook.

Even if it turned out after due process that he wasn't justified, the constant unashamed demands that he should be punished, and defending such demands by citing past grievances and being wronged by others is nothing less than frightening to me.

These things aren't only said by activists, but most of the media doesn't call them out on it.




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It would matter to any officer who just scuffled and was repeatedly punched in the face...struggled with a suspect to gain control of his own gun....

When that person then starts running AT the that officer...that officer, any officer, is going to shoot till the threat is over...



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We still don't know that happened. Only have Josie's words and a vague description by Chief Belmar. He was wearing flip-flops and already shot. Bathsalts?
 
Because the strong arm robbery isn't part of the investigation of whether this was excessive force by a LEO?

Because there seems to be a huge problem? Because all witnesses say he was surrendering and the only side of his story we have comes from a woman who wouldn't use her real name. Who got it second hand from the officer's girlfriend?

Throw in the lying (spell?) by a Chief OP, the officers who have shown themselves to be less than trustworthy when it comes to interacting with the public and the media....<mod snip>

What do you mean by the Chief lied? Do you have a link for that?


Oh, yes, and stay on topic. This case has nothing to do with G. Zimmerman.
 
For those that think Chief Jackson should not have released the convenience store robbery and assault videos, or that this truth somehow "smears" the reputation of MB, consider this thought experiment.

Assume for a minute MB and DJ entered the same liquor/ convenience store. Instead of robbing the store of cigarillos, and assaulting the clerk, pretend MB selected some snacks and a soft drink. Pretend MB brought the items to the register, and paid for them. And pretend that during that process, the clerk, the same small man, came around the counter (to where we could see him clearly on video) felt ill, grabbed his own chest, and collapsed to the floor. Picture MB concerned, and immediately dropping to his knees to render aid, to see if the man needed help, and if he was breathing. Then picture Big Mike pulling out his cell phone to call 911 to get an ambulance for the collapsed shopkeeper. The ambulance arrives, takes the clerk off in a stretcher, and MB and DJ exit the store thru the front door. And assume that all that was recorded on about 4 different video surveillance cameras.

Now continue the thought experiment to include all of what happened during their stroll down the middle of the street, and the encounter with OW, that resulted in MB assaulting the officer in his patrol vehicle, and struggling to take his weapon, and the officer shooting MB and killing him.

Would that hypothetical convenience store video surveillance video have been relevant to what happened 10 min later? Should it be suppressed, since no crime was committed? Should it be released, because it shows exactly what a Gentle Giant and a kind man MB was 10 min before his death? Should it be suppressed because the hypothetical video shows MB in a positive light? Would THAT kind of a video be relevant, or irrelevant?

The truth is the truth. And the truth always shows what kind of a person someone really is. In this case, the truth is that MB was committing strong arm robbery and assault 10 min before the encounter where he died. Hugely relevant.

The video shows us exactly what kind of mindset MB was in 10 min before the encounter that directly lead to his death. It wasn't a shoplifting video from years ago-- it was 10 minutes before the encounter with OW. Ten minutes. Highly, highly relevant. And it would be beyond irresponsible to not release it, IMO.

And I would feel exactly the same if the video was the "hypothetical" in my thought experiment. It was released, as it should have been. And IMO, it should have been released before all the riots, burning, and looting occurred. Earlier release may have squelched the riots, saved store property, and prevented the police overtime for the riots, had it been released and handled more promptly, and more transparently from the very beginning.

More transparency and less lies from all sides. We agree. :)
 
Welll, we had three officers at least stupid enough to publicly say racist things and or threaten to kill protesters in just a period of one of two weeks. Theri behavor is inexcusable for a public servant. I'd guess for each of those, he has a few coworkers that feel the same way, but are smart enough to keep their mouths shut. IMHO, they'd have to have some support of that racism before that they got accostomed to acting out that way.
It's not about this one incident, as reported again and again in the media- it is about a pattern of targeting the AA community for harrassment.
Let's not forget OW's former force was disbanded for this sort of stuff, and rightfully so, IMHO.

And I sat and watched a hundred+ protestors chanting KILL THE PIGS! So it seems to go both ways.
 
Did I miss something???? Is there any evidence that this is necessary? Or is Holder having an investigation in reaction to mob mentality?

I believe it is necessary, and apparently the FEDS see it that way too. This was handled badly from the start. We don't even have any real evidence yet and everyone knows what happened.. I just don't see how.
I see a second hand accounting on the side of the officer, I see dramatics on the side of the family and a lot of "witnesses" that may have a stake in the outcome. They need a real investigation into how this happened and how it was handled. IMPO
 

From your link:

There was one reporter, Joel Currier with the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, who asked for any and all evidence "leading up to" Brown’s death in a FOIA request. The request could have possibly included the tape, since the incident report on the robbery identifies Brown as a suspect in the crime.

He asked for everything and he got it. There was NO lie.
 
***** I'll give you the narrative because I can not handle the cursing in the background and it's really hard to hear because of it. TIFWIW


#1 How’d he get from there to there?

#2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck

{crosstalk}

#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him

{crosstalk}

#2 Then the next thing I know he coming back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –

#1. Oh, the police got his gun

#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him

{crosstalk}

#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing

#1 The Police?

#2 The Police shot him

#1 Police?

#2 The next thing I know … I’m thinking … the dude started running … (garbled something about “he took it from him”)

So the officer kept coming at him? The dude took off running and he kept coming at him???
 
Yes, the Chief lied in great detail, in order to justify sliming the young man. I think people realized that and the revised story about OW being aware of the "robbery" (called in as shoplifting, btw) were PR BS, and it inflamed things. It was a very poor choice. MOO.

He was NOT 'sliming' MB. He was sharing with the public, a video, showing what MB's state of mind was, ten minutes prior to the shooting. I think it is totally relevant to the tragic incident that followed. It showed a very aggressive and intimidating teen, hardly a 'gentle giant.' I think it was importyant to correct that narrative being sold by Crump.
 
So the officer kept coming at him? The dude took off running and he kept coming at him???

At first MB ran away BUT THEN he turned back and ran towards the officer and kept coming at him.
 
So the guy that originally wrote this article on the blot.com

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/05/ferguson-chief-lied-about-michael-brown-tape_n_5773420.html

Claimed that the Chief lied about record requests. And of course, most people would read the article and take it as fact :facepalm: which is one of the things that is so wrong about the way the media has handled this case. But I did some sleuthing and guess what, more media lies :gaah:

Here, look for yourself. I didn't count the requests, but there were more than one. Let this be a lesson to everyone to not always believe what you read. If it sounds hinky, take the time to look into it so you can accept it or disprove it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/238701520/City-of-Ferguson-FOIA-Request-Log

Here is the link to the Report pertaining to Aug. 9 robbery of Ferguson, Mo., convenience store
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/pa...rtment-incident-report-on-aug-9-robbery/1256/

Which states, The City has received numerous request for records..............
 
For those that think Chief Jackson should not have released the convenience store robbery and assault videos, or that this truth somehow "smears" the reputation of MB, consider this thought experiment.

Assume for a minute MB and DJ entered the same liquor/ convenience store. Instead of robbing the store of cigarillos, and assaulting the clerk, pretend MB selected some snacks and a soft drink. Pretend MB brought the items to the register, and paid for them. And pretend that during that process, the clerk, the same small man, came around the counter (to where we could see him clearly on video) felt ill, grabbed his own chest, and collapsed to the floor. Picture MB concerned, and immediately dropping to his knees to render aid, to see if the man needed help, and if he was breathing. Then picture Big Mike pulling out his cell phone to call 911 to get an ambulance for the collapsed shopkeeper. The ambulance arrives, takes the clerk off in a stretcher, and MB and DJ exit the store thru the front door. And assume that all that was recorded on about 4 different video surveillance cameras.

Now continue the thought experiment to include all of what happened during their stroll down the middle of the street, and the encounter with OW, that resulted in MB assaulting the officer in his patrol vehicle, and struggling to take his weapon, and the officer shooting MB and killing him.

Would that hypothetical convenience store video surveillance video have been relevant to what happened 10 min later? Should it be suppressed, since no crime was committed? Should it be released, because it shows exactly what a Gentle Giant and a kind man MB was 10 min before his death? Should it be suppressed because the hypothetical video shows MB in a positive light? Would THAT kind of a video be relevant, or irrelevant?

The truth is the truth. And the truth always shows what kind of a person someone really is. In this case, the truth is that MB was committing strong arm robbery and assault 10 min before the encounter where he died. Hugely relevant.

The video shows us exactly what kind of mindset MB was in 10 min before the encounter that directly lead to his death. It wasn't a shoplifting video from years ago-- it was 10 minutes before the encounter with OW. Ten minutes. Highly, highly relevant. And it would be beyond irresponsible to not release it, IMO.

And I would feel exactly the same if the video was the "hypothetical" in my thought experiment. It was released, as it should have been. And IMO, it should have been released before all the riots, burning, and looting occurred. Earlier release may have squelched the riots, saved store property, and prevented the police overtime for the riots, had it been released and handled more promptly, and more transparently from the very beginning.

LOL, thanks button is not enough. This is a beautiful post and just hits the nail on the head. Love it.
 
The DOJ was asked to investigate 2 days after the shooting.

Racial tension was immediately evident after Brown's shooting. A mostly white police force stood guard around Brown's body in the street that Saturday as hundreds of angry onlookers gathered in the predominantly black community. Some chanted: "Kill the police."

On Monday, Nixon talked by phone with St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley and later released a statement asking the U.S. Justice Department to investigate Brown's shooting.


http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2014/09/05/records-gov-nixon-kept-routine-after-shooting
 
The Chief did not lie, LambChop. The writer for 'the blot' did.

See for yourself.


What do you mean by the Chief lied? Do you have a link for that?


Oh, yes, and stay on topic. This case has nothing to do with G. Zimmerman.

So the guy that originally wrote this article on the blot.com

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/05/ferguson-chief-lied-about-michael-brown-tape_n_5773420.html

Claimed that the Chief lied about record requests. And of course, most people would read the article and take it as fact :facepalm: which is one of the things that is so wrong about the way the media has handled this case. But I did some sleuthing and guess what, more media lies :gaah:

Here, look for yourself. I didn't count the requests, but there were more than one. Let this be a lesson to everyone to not always believe what you read. If it sounds hinky, take the time to look into it so you can accept it or disprove it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/238701520/City-of-Ferguson-FOIA-Request-Log

Here is the link to the Report pertaining to Aug. 9 robbery of Ferguson, Mo., convenience store
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/pa...rtment-incident-report-on-aug-9-robbery/1256/

Which states, The City has received numerous request for records..............
 
The lie, as per the article, was that the Chief stated that he had received many specific requests for the tape. Whether or not he included the tape in an omnibus request is another matter. From the article:

"Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson lied when he said he had received "many" specific requests for the videotape that allegedly shows Michael Brown robbing a convenience store, according to a new report.

"All I did -- what I did was -- was release the videotape to you, because I had to," Jackson told reporters on Aug. 15 when asked why he released the robbery footage. "I&#8217;d been sitting on it, but I -- too many people put in a [Freedom of Information Act] request for that thing, and I had to release that tape to you.""

But there was no specific request for that tape, or 'that thing' as he also calls it. Nor did he respect the omnibus request -- he did not release all information, but selectively released some. I think that's why the author of the article (and the sources on which the article is based) refers to it as a lie.

from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/05/ferguson-chief-lied-about-michael-brown-tape_n_5773420.html
 
We still don't know that happened. Only have Josie's words and a vague description by Chief Belmar. He was wearing flip-flops and already shot. Bathsalts?

We certainly have a MUCH clearer picture of what happened today then we did early on.

The links are available in the media thread and I personally sent one to you, that you requested.

<modsnip>

IMO


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For his part, Jackson responded to a recent question about why he released the video with a statement issued by a public relations firm.

The statement said that the Ferguson Police Department &#8220;had indeed received numerous requests for video footage that showed the strong-arm robbery that preceded the unfortunate incident involving Michael Brown &#8230; Providing a clear, concise picture of the situation was all the police department was seeking in releasing the robbery footage on August 15th.&#8221;

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
 
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