Found Deceased MO - John Forsyth, 49, doctor, Mercy ER Clinic, Cassville, 21 May 2023 *car found* #2

[Betty P]

I would have thought, as an ER doc employed at the hospital, all patient medical records would be the property of the hospital. And that’s where they were to be kept. It’s not like he was in private practice.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what the work related papers are?

MOD NOTE: Quoted post appears to have been deleted if you click to go to it, but that's because I made a giant mess while opening the new thread. That post is available here: Found Deceased - MO - John Forsyth, 49, doctor, Mercy ER Clinic, Cassville, 21 May 2023 *car found* #2. Sorry about that. (Knitty)

News and his brother only referred to work related papers. Not sure if they were patient records. Technically, HIPAA would still apply to non-patient work related records. I'm not sure there's any reason to find fault with the victim here.

The fault lies with those who may have murdered him.

The question I'm trying to focus on is this: Does the presence of his work related papers and briefcase in the car imply that he was taken by someone before he reached his RV?

His RV was unlocked
His car contained items he was probably carrying when he left the hospital, with the exception of his passport
Did he go to his RV first and was taken there?
Did he go to his RV first, then got in his car with these items, leaving to meet with someone at the aquatic park service area, leaving his RV unlocked?
Did he go to the RV first, then got in his car for the meeting, locking his RV before he left. Whomever "disappeared" him later used his keys to open his RV, then left leaving it unlocked?

I'm just thinking the presence of his work related files in his briefcase being left in his unlocked car might give a clue as to whether he was kidnapped and if so when. The timeline seems pretty tight. A lot happened in a short period of time.

 

[scndaavian]

I can think of many reasons to go to school in Barbados... He was adventurous and wanted to see different parts of the world. He was tired of the cold weather and wanted a warmer climate for a while. Barbados is beautiful. A friend was going so he went too. There could be a myriad of reasons that are not negative as well.

Most of the island's schools on notorious or at least well known for accepting US students with lower grades and higher expectations to become Licensed To practice

 

[neesaki]

News and his brother only referred to work related papers. Not sure if they were patient records. Technically, HIPAA would still apply to non-patient work related records. I'm not sure there's any reason to find fault with the victim here.

The fault lies with those who may have murdered him.

Yes, I totally agree.…. Didn’t intend to victim blame. Humble apologies.

 

[Betty P]

Yes, I totally agree.…. Didn’t intend to victim blame. Humble apologies.

No problem.

I'm puzzled about that briefcase. Is it relevant in any way? Were there papers or reports that he reviewed or completed relating to the operation of the ER? I'm just spitballing. Maybe they're not important by themselves, but they give an idea about what happened that caused them to be in his unlocked, abandoned car. Same with the RV. I can't imagine he would have left that unlocked.

He seemed like a very professional doctor. Even if he were terribly depressed and planning to end hid own life (which doesn't appear to be the case) it seems unlikely he would leave that stuff lying around. Why the passport? Was he planning to leave the country, but encountered dangerous people before he could get out of town?

I have a feeling his RV was locked and someone retrieved his keys, went through it, and left the keys in his car? IDK, it's confusing. Also, IIRC, his laptop was one he used for work, correct? If so, did he have a personal one? Surely he did with all of that cryptocurrency stuff. If so, where is that?

 

[neesaki]

No problem.

I'm puzzled about that briefcase. Is it relevant in any way? Were there papers or reports that he reviewed or completed relating to the operation of the ER? I'm just spitballing. Maybe they're not important by themselves, but they give an idea about what happened that caused them to be in his unlocked, abandoned car. Same with the RV. I can't imagine he would have left that unlocked.

He seemed like a very professional doctor. Even if he were terribly depressed and planning to end hid own life (which doesn't appear to be the case) it seems unlikely he would leave that stuff lying around. Why the passport? Was he planning to leave the country, but encountered dangerous people before he could get out of town?

I have a feeling his RV was locked and someone retrieved his keys, went through it, and left the keys in his car? IDK, it's confusing. Also, IIRC, his laptop was one he used for work, correct? If so, did he have a personal one? Surely he did with all of that cryptocurrency stuff. If so, where is that?

Yes, I’m just trying to figure out if something may have been going on concerning his records. Is it possible someone wanted and removed something from his briefcase. Or information stored in his laptop. It does seem they would have just taken it all with them though. JMO

 

[?!?]

Yes, I’m just trying to figure out if something may have been going on concerning his records. Is it possible someone wanted and removed something from his briefcase. Or information stored in his laptop. It does seem they would have just taken it all with them though. JMO

'Taking it all with them' MAY have provided traceable location info to investigators - so they didn't take it. (perhaps)

 

[Betty P]

'Taking it all with them' MAY have provided traceable location info to investigators - so they didn't take it. (perhaps)

Same with the cell phones and car, possibly explaining why they were left.

Of course, all the info about this evidence is going to be kept under wraps by LE, as it should be.

 

[MSCJgrad]

Thanks to those who shared the podcast interview. I am local-ish to this case, and have followed closely. As it pertains to the podcast, I am curious as to why the FBI would not have been in contact with the family. I have my own thoughts but I am keeping them to myself to respect TOS. I also find it curious as to how (per the interview) LE could completely rule out any family member being involved, particularly given the size of the family-without making any such statement to the public. The complete silence from everyone except for the brother is… odd, IMO.
Has Brown Bear been here recently? I am curious as to the family’s perspective here.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Thanks to those who shared the podcast interview. I am local-ish to this case, and have followed closely. As it pertains to the podcast, I am curious as to why the FBI would not have been in contact with the family. I have my own thoughts but I am keeping them to myself to respect TOS. I also find it curious as to how (per the interview) LE could completely rule out any family member being involved, particularly given the size of the family-without making any such statement to the public. The complete silence from everyone except for the brother is… odd, IMO.
Has Brown Bear been here recently? I am curious as to the family’s perspective here.

Brown Bear provided a few comments today. Go back up thread.

 

[Cedars]

Just wondering if he wasn't super skilled at what he did, and he had something pending against him we're not aware of?

He'd been a full-time practitioner in MO since 2005, not sure what experience he'd had before then: residency, etc

Surely, 17+ years of hands-on experience (plus continuing education to keep up in a changing field) would have long since filled in any gaps from med school?

JMO

 

[1MTIrish]

And remember.....regardless of where he went to school....he still had to pass a series of board exams throughout his residency....the very same ones every practioner in his field of licensure has to pass

 

[RickshawFan]

I can think of many reasons to go to school in Barbados... He was adventurous and wanted to see different parts of the world. He was tired of the cold weather and wanted a warmer climate for a while. Barbados is beautiful. A friend was going so he went too. There could be a myriad of reasons that are not negative as well.

Usually you go to Barbados for med school if you weren't such a great student, did poorly on the MCAT's, or were missing essentials like lab courses. Or/and. It's a quality thing. I wouldn't go to a physician trained in the Caribbean (I check), whereas I'd be comfortable with many other med schools abroad.

 

[?!?]

Usually you go to Barbados for med school if you weren't such a great student, did poorly on the MCAT's, or were missing essentials like lab courses. It's a quality thing. I wouldn't go to a physician trained in the Caribbean (I check), whereas I'd be comfortable with many other med schools abroad.

Possibly why he was in the ER -- most patients don't have time to 'select.'

 

[caradana]

Wait a second. A gentlemen born of Mormon parents in Idaho, raised in Alberta and in southern Missouri … Have we asked/explored what specific denomination he was raised in? All of these are locations strongly associated with Fundamentalist (offshoot) Mormonism.

 

[RickshawFan]

I would like to see someone who knew him verify this. When you look up his license, the category is Physicians and Surgeons. I am wondering if whomever wrote the article didn't understand how the license was classified?

This is commentary, but not about this specific case. I believe the term "Physicians and Surgeons" came about because historically they came from 2 universes. In the UK, surgeons are called Mr., not Dr. IIRC "surgeons" evolved from barbers.

I don't believe "physicians" would include several other disciplines we might imagine would be included, like podiatrists.

Bottom line, IMO the terminology reflects old history, and I haven't seen that JF was a surgeon.

Moments later.... got that right!

Barber surgeon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Snoopster]

Wait a second. A gentlemen born of Mormon parents in Idaho, raised in Alberta and in southern Missouri … Have we asked/explored what specific denomination he was raised in? All of these are locations strongly associated with Fundamentalist (offshoot) Mormonism.

Regarding Mormonism in Alberta, yes, it's got the highest percentage of LDS of any province in Canada, but it still only represents 1.1% of the population. (source: Wikipedia The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Canada - Wikipedia )

Are you wondering if he was FLDS? If so, I think he seemed to live a pretty 'liberal' life by what we've heard, so I would doubt that. JMO.

 

[Brown bear]

Thanks to those who shared the podcast interview. I am local-ish to this case, and have followed closely. As it pertains to the podcast, I am curious as to why the FBI would not have been in contact with the family. I have my own thoughts but I am keeping them to myself to respect TOS. I also find it curious as to how (per the interview) LE could completely rule out any family member being involved, particularly given the size of the family-without making any such statement to the public. The complete silence from everyone except for the brother is… odd, IMO.
Has Brown Bear been here recently? I am curious as to the family’s perspective here.

<modsnip - removed at request of the VI>

I think everyone would prefer to let the parents and siblings of JF take the lead, as far as anything being said publicly. I’d personally feel presumptuous doing anything else.

<modsnip - removed at request of the VI>

 

[Snoopster]

<modsnip - removed at the request of the VI>

I think everyone would prefer to let the parents and siblings of JF take the lead, as far as anything being said publicly. I’d personally feel presumptuous doing anything else.

<modsnip - removed at the request of the VI>

I'm glad you were there, even though it must have been so difficult.
With John's brother in the media, it is easy to forget about the other family members, and, in particular his parents. I can't imagine what they are going through (and you as well).

We are impatient to hear something from LE regarding the direction of their investigation and we aren't even family or friends! (Are they leaning toward suicide or homicide? ) But many of us here understand that investigations take time. So we will let the investigation take its course.

Take care of yourself.

 

[Dhighsmith]

<modsnip - removed at the request of the VI>

I think everyone would prefer to let the parents and siblings of JF take the lead, as far as anything being said publicly. I’d personally feel presumptuous doing anything else.

<modsnip - removed at the request of the VI>

Continued thoughts and prayers.

 

[al66pine]

Licensing In State of Missouri. Was JF a "Physician and Surgeon?"

.... the term "Physicians and Surgeons" ....terminology reflects old history, and I haven't seen that JF was a surgeon.

Barber surgeon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

snipped for focus @RickshawFan Thanks for ^ info and link. And the trip down Memory Lane to the Middle Ages in Europe. Maybe you & others already know, but I went down a newish-to-me rabbit hole.

Briefly, per MO. statutes* & administrative agency regulations** of MO. "State Board of Registration for the Healing Arts," an applicant (w required edu. & qualifications) is licensed as a "physician and surgeon."
IIUC, not as one or the other, but as both.

SPECIALTY?
MO. Bd/Reg./Healing Arts does not further delineate or verify the licensee's specialty (if any) in the Bd's licensing functions, IIUC.
Its online database of licensee status shows specialty info that the licensee provides to the agency, but the MO. Bd. does not confirm accuracy and advises users to verify specialty info w ___ (I'm blanking out, made no notes then, and ATM too tired to search)? Was it "American Board of Medical Specialties" *** or other org?
Last week on MO's license-status website, Dr. F.'s profile showed "Family Practice" (IIRC, or Emer. Med.?). When I checked, the board certification website showed JF as board-certified in that specialty.

Regardless of whether JF was bd-certified in a specialty, in MO. JF was licensed in MO. as a "physician and surgeon" imo. ICBW.

Welcoming correction or clarification. TiA.

BTW and FWIW, ^ OP mentioned podiatrists. MO. Chapter 330**** (not Ch. 334) govern & MO. Board of Podiatric Medicine (not MO. Bd/Reg/Healing Arts) regulates & licenses podiatrists.
Sooo --- different laws, diff reg's, diff boards.

______________________________________________
Not so briefly. Details, details, details.
* MO. Revised Statutes
Ch. 334 "Physicians and Surgeons..." include:
334.021. Reference to terms in prior laws, how construed —no hiring discrimination permitted based on medical degree held. — 1. Where other statutes of this state use the terms "physician", "surgeon", "practitioner of medicine", "practitioner of osteopathy", "board of medical examiners", or "board of osteopathic registration and examination" or similar terms, they shall be construed to mean physicians and surgeons licensed under this chapter or the state board of registration for the healing arts in the state of Missouri.
334.031   Qualifications of candidates for licenses. (8/28/1997)
334.035   Application for permanent license, postgraduate training requirement. (8/28/2014)
^ Missouri Revisor of Statutes - Revised Statutes of Missouri, RSMo Chapter 334

** Regulations of State Board of Registration for the Healing Arts
"Chapter 2—Licensing of Physicians and Surgeons
20 CSR 2150-2.001 Definitions
PURPOSE: This rule defines terms used in Chapter 334, RSMo,
^https://www.sos.mo.gov/cmsimages/adrules/csr/current/20csr/20c2150-2.pdf
See page 3, w definition "(10) Licensee—a person who holds a physician and surgeon ... license issued pursuant to Chapter 334,..." (sbm)
A "physician and surgeon license" is singular, indicating one license for both.
^https://www.pr.mo.gov/healingarts.asp

*** ABMS | American Board of Medical Specialties
https://www.certificationmatters.org/

American Board of Medical Specialties - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

**** MO. statutes re Podiatrists
"Chapter 330 Podiatrists" includes 

Missouri Revisor of Statutes - Revised Statutes of Missouri, RSMo Chapter 330

Revised Statutes of Missouri, Missouri law

revisor.mo.gov

" 330.030. Issuance of license — qualifications — examination — fees..."

330.030

Issuance of license — qualifications — examination — fees — reciprocity.

revisor.mo.gov