MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12

[wfgodot]

Good Lord, man! You should have married this girl. She was obviously very relaxed...and non-combative.

Great family - great big (seven or eight kids), laid back. Used to having people in and out, around the house - one more didn't hurt.

 

[MsDetective]

If the kidnapper was not a stranger, then he/she would know where the baby's room was, so no guessing would be necessary.

It would also explain why the dog didn't bark.

 

[RANCH]

OK I see what you are saying. But look at it from the eyes of LE. They are doing their job. Their job is to ask the same questions over and over and over until they are sure that the parties are telling the truth or they wear them down and they tell what they know. That is why the long interviews. They gauge your reactions and how you answer and if you change your story.

When you walk out of that process what does it tell LE? That they hit a nerve somewhere?

I see your point but there has to be a limit somewhere on how long an interview can last. Or on repeated interviews.

 

[cluciano63]

Unless the perp no longer has Lisa with them.

Well...assuming the baby is alive, someone has turned up with a new (not newborn) baby...it's not like the old days, I don't know if you can even go see a doctor with a baby that many months old without someone wanting some info on the baby's history. I guess I am just not seeing someone taking this baby in this bold manner only to hand her off to someone else...and it is hard to see this as a revenge act, because kidnapping is such a serious felony; who wants to risk life in prison to get "back" at someone? I've never heard of that actually happening, except maybe in the world of heavy drug dealing...JMO (NOT suggesting a drug connection.)

 

[MsFacetious]

I agree that it is not usually both. But there are that rare breed of crazy, creepy intruders that do not fit the usual mode.

Your average opportunity burglar, finding an open front door is going to grab the cell phones and look around for anything else they can quickly take. But they also do not usually turn on all of the lights. [ if they did so]

But there are crazy transients who do weird things that make no sense. And these are the types of perps that make a crime scene really confusing and it makes the innocent victims look possibly guilty because of all of the inconsistent circumstances.

There has been more than one case where a burglar went in and had no intention of taking anyone... then saw a young child (even 2 year old) and thought they might want to take that child.

It would not be the first time a burglary turned into a kidnapping.

It also wouldn't be the first time that occurred and a parent was under suspicion... or even was arrested for the crime before the real suspect was caught.

I have left out disturbing details of both of these cases. Both articles contain those details and both cases have threads on Websleuths.


http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/11/aaron-noyer-of-pennsylvania-sentenced-to-life-in-murder-of-2-yea/

Aaron Noyer sentenced to life for murder of 2 year old Elizabeth....

When Noyer was brought in for questioning, he allegedly told police he had climbed through the girl's bedroom window to burglarize the home.

During the burglary, Noyer abducted Elizabeth and took her to a nearby area...


http://abcnews.go.com/2020/riley-fox-parents-speak-scott-eby-charged-murder/story?id=10878773

The Foxes' attorney, Kathleen Zellner, said Eby confessed to killing Riley after first burglarizing another house on the same block -- an important clue that the Foxes said police at the time ignored.

According to Zellner, Eby cut through the back door of the Fox house, pushed the door in, and saw Riley sleeping on the couch in the living room.

Zellner said Eby formed the intent to kidnap Riley after he saw that her father was asleep.

http://archive.chicagobreakingnews....t-in-riley-fox-slaying-left-shoes-behind.html


Riley Fox's Dad spent months in jail after being arrested for her rape and murder. He was released after DNA cleared him.
Though they never connected the shoes with the last name EBY... found in the water with Riley's body... to a suspect.
It was another 6 years before they charged Scott EBY with her murder.

 

[shefner]

Great family - great big (seven or eight kids), laid back. Used to having people in and out, around the house, lol.

Well, obviously their wax is still intact.

 

[katydid23]

Are the 2 boys back with their parents ?

Probably not, but I meant in general, they needed to see her and be comforted some. Even if they are with other family members.

 

[wfgodot]

Well, obviously their wax is still intact.

No plummeting seaward in that clan. Actually, come to think of it, I dated two of the sisters. (Not at the same time!)

 

[RANCH]

She does seem to answer before he has a chance to...can't tell if it is her way, or if she is doing it because she was the one who was "there" or what...JMO

Ok. Media interviews. I guess the tv person should ask a more direct question to Jeremey if Debbie keeps answering for him. MOO.

 

[passionflower]

It's 10:37 there now, any news?

 

[shefner]

No plummeting seaward in that clan. Actually, come to think of it, I dated two of the sisters. (Not at the same time!)

Aha! You sound as much like an Eros as an Icarus. More wings, more wings.

 

[grandmaj]

I see your point but there has to be a limit somewhere on how long an interview can last. Or on repeated interviews.

It was more than that. There was some misunderstanding.... something happened Thursday afternoon and the parents sped away. This is the beginning. It is all in the time line.



***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lisa...,5671503.story

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.---suspects all cleared
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a391r9l4

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by BeanE

--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

 

[TravelingBug]

Well...assuming the baby is alive, someone has turned up with a new (not newborn) baby...it's not like the old days, I don't know if you can even go see a doctor with a baby that many months old without someone wanting some info on the baby's history. I guess I am just not seeing someone taking this baby in this bold manner only to hand her off to someone else...and it is hard to see this as a revenge act, because kidnapping is such a serious felony; who wants to risk life in prison to get "back" at someone? I've never heard of that actually happening, except maybe in the world of heavy drug dealing...JMO (NOT suggesting a drug connection.)

I don't know...with "minute clinics" couldn't they take a child and arouse less suspicion? Many of my friends have been paying out of pocket instead of using insurance at those b/c the cost is cheaper...not using insurance couldn't someone pull it off with a child perhaps?

Or if someone with a child of similar age (or one where family/friends were expecting one of that age even if they'd not seen her prior) could pass Lisa off as their own.

 

[gliving]

This is deje vu for some reason...........

Yep, Danielle Van Dam and I fear the worse.

 

[liz b.]

Probably not, but I meant in general, they needed to see her and be comforted some. Even if they are with other family members.

Oh, I wasn't aware that the boys had been spending time with Deb and Jeremy...

 

[katydid23]

I don't know...with "minute clinics" couldn't they take a child and arouse less suspicion? Many of my friends have been paying out of pocket instead of using insurance at those b/c the cost is cheaper...not using insurance couldn't someone pull it off with a child perhaps?

Or if someone with a child of similar age (or one where family/friends were expecting one of that age even if they'd not seen her prior) could pass Lisa off as their own.

And here in Los Angeles anyone can buy fake documents, like birth certificates right on the street.

 

[katydid23]

Oh, I wasn't aware that the boys had been spending time with Deb and Jeremy...

I don't know if they are or not. I was just assuming that she would want to spend time with her son, who must be devastated, poor thing.

 

[liz b.]

I don't know if they are or not. I was just assuming that she would want to spend time with her son, who must be devastated, poor thing.

Yes. you would think so...

 

[cluciano63]

In the recent case in Canada, which was one of the few stranger kidnappings from a home in recent years, LE had a ready-made suspect and sure enough...

This is a bold kidnapping, if it happened and was a stranger, and probably not a first crime. And probably someone who lives nearby would fit the "profile". Seems like any neighborhood "creeps" would have been brought to LE's attention by now, and they said they have looked at the RSO's. So if not a registered sex offender, what other crimes might proceed a "home invasion/kidnapping" I wonder? I think it would have to be someone with a criminal record. JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

There has been more than one case where a burglar went in and had no intention of taking anyone... then saw a young child (even 2 year old) and thought they might want to take that child.

It would not be the first time a burglary turned into a kidnapping.

It also wouldn't be the first time that occurred and a parent was under suspicion... or even was arrested for the crime before the real suspect was caught.

I have left out disturbing details of both of these cases. Both articles contain those details and both cases have threads on Websleuths.


http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/11/aaron-noyer-of-pennsylvania-sentenced-to-life-in-murder-of-2-yea/

Aaron Noyer sentenced to life for murder of 2 year old Elizabeth....

When Noyer was brought in for questioning, he allegedly told police he had climbed through the girl's bedroom window to burglarize the home.

During the burglary, Noyer abducted Elizabeth and took her to a nearby area...


http://abcnews.go.com/2020/riley-fox-parents-speak-scott-eby-charged-murder/story?id=10878773

The Foxes' attorney, Kathleen Zellner, said Eby confessed to killing Riley after first burglarizing another house on the same block -- an important clue that the Foxes said police at the time ignored.

According to Zellner, Eby cut through the back door of the Fox house, pushed the door in, and saw Riley sleeping on the couch in the living room.

Zellner said Eby formed the intent to kidnap Riley after he saw that her father was asleep.

http://archive.chicagobreakingnews....t-in-riley-fox-slaying-left-shoes-behind.html


Riley Fox's Dad spent months in jail after being arrested for her rape and murder. He was released after DNA cleared him.
Though they never connected the shoes with the last name EBY... found in the water with Riley's body... to a suspect.
It was another 6 years before they charged Scott EBY with her murder.

On October 27th, 2004, the Defendants wrapped up what can be best characterized as a botched investigation of the murder of 4-year-old Riley Fox. Having made critical mistakes in the early stages of the investigation resulting in the destruction of key evidence, Defendants, in a last desperate effort to close the case on the eve of an election, made their move on an easy target - the 27 year old father of Riley Fox. A young man with no knowledge of the criminal justice system in Illinois and its shameful history of false confessions and wrongful convictions, Kevin Fox was best known for being a great father to his children and a bit too trusting of authority figures. Seeing no need for an attorney because he had “nothing to hide”, Kevin walked into a locked room from which he may never return. After hearing hours of threats, lies about the evidence, and promises about a ”deal”, Kevin Fox fell victim to a lethal game of bait and switch.

Believing he had only two options, a 30 year to life sentence with the promise of daily sexual assaults and years of separation from his family or, the bait, a 3-5 year sentence for involuntary manslaughter and immediate release on bond, he chose the later, at the price of agreeing to a fabricated story.

The switch occurred on October 27th when Kevin Fox learned he had not only been tricked into a first degree murder charge but the lethal game ended in the coveted prize for the State - a chance to get a lethal injection.

https://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1146566231