MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12

[wfgodot]

Here's the "handing out posters at the car race" story, this from the Kansas City Star:

Call for help in missing baby case moves to Kansas Speedway

---
[Ashley] Irwin said they chose the Speedway because it attracts 100,000 fans and “people from all over the country.” She said they felt it was a worthwhile effort on a day when police reported no new progress in the search for the little girl.
---

more at link

 

[liz b.]

IIRC, years go there was case of an open garage door kidnapping (in FLA???)
baby (about Lisa's age) never found, parents home bugged by LE but was that ever solved?
Mom babysat other kids.

I think it was little Sabrina Eisenberg. No, AFAIK it was never solved....LE bugged the house, and supposedly heard a convo between the parents having to do with an accident with the baby and her dad using cocaine. It was too distorted to really hear.Parents denied any involvement. The parents moved back to MD,where I think one or both of them were from... I'm fairly sure there was a lawsuit later... MOO

 

[curiositycat]

There were 3 children in the house. Why the baby? A sick baby who is going to be a handful between teething, a cold, needing more care than an older child like diapers, feedings, baths etc.

I'm having a really difficult time with this theory except for in two cases. Grudge, or some crazed woman who wanted a baby. But, I keep coming back to no one hearing a thing. That bugs me. Opening doors and closing doors, and window screens out and lights being turned on and phones disappearing out of the kitchen? Someone was moving around that house not just a minute or two with a grab and run ya know?

And no one heard a thing even with a baby monitor on?

All with the lights on and in the front of the house, too. You would think someone would have seen something, people come and go to work at all hours of the day and night. Cars go by, and yet someone was bold enough to turn all the lights on and grab a baby?

 

[wfgodot]

Well shoot! What happened to that 'new' lead in Kansas?

I'm still trundling along, trying to find something/anything!

 

[iamnotagolem]

My personal opinion is this was not a stranger abduction and the parents weren't involved. I think there are too many facts that point against both of those theories. I also think that the person who kidnapped her probably was very familiar w/the house and family, probably already had a carseat for her in his or her vehicle. This person is familiar enough with the family and knows mom is a deep sleeper.

 

[RANCH]

Go here and the links will work. I just copy and pasted Ranch.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150977&highlight=lisa+irwin+timeline

Timeline needs some work grandmaj. The news report that is linked is about the cell phones and then says "someone at the command post saw the couple talking to LE and then leave in a car". Not them speeding off in a police car to command center to find out about possible new lead.

 

[gitana1]

Timeline is in my signature

Awesome, awesome timeline. Many thanks.

Sabrina Aisenberg? I may not have the last name spelled correctly...

That's the one. Family seemed kind of stiff and odd in interviews but i really think an intruder took the child.

In the recent case in Canada, which was one of the few stranger kidnappings from a home in recent years, LE had a ready-made suspect and sure enough...

This is a bold kidnapping, if it happened and was a stranger, and probably not a first crime. And probably someone who lives nearby would fit the "profile". Seems like any neighborhood "creeps" would have been brought to LE's attention by now, and they said they have looked at the RSO's. So if not a registered sex offender, what other crimes might proceed a "home invasion/kidnapping" I wonder? I think it would have to be someone with a criminal record. JMO

What bothers me about a possible intruder theory is that the dad said all the lights were on in the house. What kind of intruder wants to totally announce their presence by turning all the lights on? Unless it is a mentally ill, disorganized criminal type.

There were 3 children in the house. Why the baby? A sick baby who is going to be a handful between teething, a cold, needing more care than an older child like diapers, feedings, baths etc.

I'm having a really difficult time with this theory except for in two cases. Grudge, or some crazed woman who wanted a baby. But, I keep coming back to no one hearing a thing. That bugs me. Opening doors and closing doors, and window screens out and lights being turned on and phones disappearing out of the kitchen? Someone was moving around that house not just a minute or two with a grab and run ya know?

And no one heard a thing even with a baby monitor on?

What bothers me is why was the 6 year old in bed with her and not the baby? The sick baby? I can't imagine putting a sick baby to bed in another room. But that's just me. I'd want my baby close, where I could attend to her needs and make sure she's okay throughout the night.

BTW, anyone know whether the dad's 8 year old was there? And I saw a report that stated the dad got custody of the 8 year old and was ruthless about it, IIRC. Does the 8 year old visit his mother? Is he with neighbors or is he with his mom? If with neighbors, why not with his own mother? I'd like to know more about the custody situation and if there is any rage going on there.

 

[gitana1]

BTW, I see we have lots of guests right now. Join up. We value everyone's opinion, it's easy to join and we don't bite, at least not often!

 

[twall]

IIRC, years go there was case of an open garage door kidnapping (in FLA???)
baby (about Lisa's age) never found, parents home bugged by LE but was that ever solved?
Mom babysat other kids.

yes, FLA, Sabrina Aisenberg and sadly she has never been found or the case solved. She was 5 mos. old.

 

[yllek]

Sabrina Aisenberg? I may not have the last name spelled correctly...

This Baby Sabrina case was never solved. I have no idea whether the parents had anything to do with it or not, but the similarities to Lisa's case are uncanny. I think about little Sabrina a lot as we discuss Lisa's story.

- baby taken from crib
- two older siblings and parents in the home
- door left unlocked
- dog did not bark
- parents stopped cooperating after day 3 - hired attorney; mom told she failed poly

I'm very glad Lisa's parents are reportedly cooperating again. I don't blame them if they have an attorney to help in this cooperation (rather than act as roadblock). Imo, it's the cases where parents stop cooperating altogether that have the least chance of getting solved.

Note: The Aisenbergs say they stopped cooperating on advice of their attorney because they were being railroaded. They were eventually wire tapped and LE had a bunch of incriminating statements indicating the parents were guilty, but the audio was so bad it was laughable. I disregard the wire taps. The parents were indicted and took the 5th, which certainly didn't help them in the court of public opinion. The LE and prosecution took some hits for the wire tapping debacle, but the parents were never officially cleared, AFAIK. Still no Sabrina.

 

[EllaMae]

There were 3 children in the house. Why the baby? A sick baby who is going to be a handful between teething, a cold, needing more care than an older child like diapers, feedings, baths etc.

I'm having a really difficult time with this theory except for in two cases. Grudge, or some crazed woman who wanted a baby. But, I keep coming back to no one hearing a thing. That bugs me. Opening doors and closing doors, and window screens out and lights being turned on and phones disappearing out of the kitchen? Someone was moving around that house not just a minute or two with a grab and run ya know?

And no one heard a thing even with a baby monitor on?

The perp probably didn't know the baby had a cold....and wouldn't care anyway.

As for the monitor....over time you learn to tune out just about everything but crying or something that sounds like a baby throwing up. If there were rustling noises...a parent might assume it was just an older baby moving around in her sleep. The noises change as the baby grows, and you just aren't as concerned with some noises that a 10 month old makes versus what a newborn does. You can tune it out and continue to sleep because it's not a noise that would be alarming from an older baby. You expect the baby to move around some at night. I can see where Debbie might sleep through those kinds of sounds.

 

[secretagent]

There were 3 children in the house. Why the baby? A sick baby who is going to be a handful between teething, a cold, needing more care than an older child like diapers, feedings, baths etc.

I'm having a really difficult time with this theory except for in two cases. Grudge, or some crazed woman who wanted a baby. But, I keep coming back to no one hearing a thing. That bugs me. Opening doors and closing doors, and window screens out and lights being turned on and phones disappearing out of the kitchen? Someone was moving around that house not just a minute or two with a grab and run ya know?

And no one heard a thing even with a baby monitor on?

3 Children but the only girl ;/

 

[grandmaj]

Timeline needs some work grandmaj. The news report that is linked is about the cell phones and then says "someone at the command post saw the couple talking to LE and then leave in a car". Not them speeding off in a police car to command center to find out about possible new lead.

Yes the news stations do change their links sometimes. Sorry.

 

[MaciBean]

I had been offline for 30 hours and just thought I'd check in tonight for an update. I spent my entire evening "catching up." Praying for Lisa and that I'll be able to catch up, again, tomorrow morning. lol

 

[Jaxson]

3 Children but the only girl ;/

and the only one young enough to not know she was stolen...

 

[passionflower]

Do we know if there was any discord in the relationship of the parents?
could they of had a fight after the party (2 days before) and baby Lisa got accidently hurt and they were to afraid to call 911 and she died?
so they told grandpa she was sick and made up all of this?

 

[grandmaj]

OK I was just at that update FB. What a mess. They are fighting and calling each other out and unfounded rumors have come from there in the past. So for now let's wait to see what the news reports on the teen. We have to be careful about sleuthing minors.

 

[EllaMae]

This Baby Sabrina case was never solved. I have no idea whether the parents had anything to do with it or not, but the similarities to Lisa's case are uncanny. I think about little Sabrina a lot as we discuss Lisa's story.

- baby taken from crib
- two older siblings and parents in the home
- door left unlocked
- dog did not bark
- parents stopped cooperating after day 3 - hired attorney; mom told she failed poly

I'm very glad Lisa's parents are reportedly cooperating again. I don't blame them if they have an attorney to help in this cooperation (rather than act as roadblock). Imo, it's the cases where parents stop cooperating altogether that have the least chance of getting solved.

Note: The Aisenbergs say they stopped cooperating on advice of their attorney because they were being railroaded. They were wire tapped and LE had a bunch of incriminating statements indicating the parents were guilty, but the audio was so bad it was laughable. I disregard the wire taps. The parents were indicted and took the 5th, which certainly didn't help them in the court of public opinion. The LE and prosecution took some hits for the wire tapping debacle, but the parents were never officially cleared, AFAIK. Still no Sabrina.

IIRC...one of LE's biggest pieces of incriminating evidence was that the house was very messy. But Mrs. Aisenberg's friends told LE that she was just that way. She didn't worry about her house, and that was nothing new. She wasn't a good housekeeper way before she had Baby Sabrina.

 

[grandmaj]

3 Children but the only girl ;/

True but the only one who is the bio child of both these parents also.

 

[gliving]

BTW, anyone know whether the dad's 8 year old was there? And I saw a report that stated the dad got custody of the 8 year old and was ruthless about it, IIRC. Does the 8 year old visit his mother? Is he with neighbors or is he with his mom? If with neighbors, why not with his own mother? I'd like to know more about the custody situation and if there is any rage going on there.

SBM, yes the dad's son was there. He has custody but the rage thing is overstated. He gained custody by default, because the son's mother didn't pursue it. I not sure if the mother visits, from what I've read here, she's unavailable at this time. HTH's