Thanks. This only allowed me to read 1 page so I wasn't able to see a resolution. I will.goggle her and see what comes up. (I do everything via my phone as my laptop has been "dead" for over a year. (I really need to get it fixed).
MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 mos, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011
- Thread starter Seymour Krelborn
- Start date
Thanks. This only allowed me to read 1 page so I wasn't able to see a resolution. I will.goggle her and see what comes up. (I do everything via my phone as my laptop has been "dead" for over a year. (I really need to get it fixed).
Thanks. This only allowed me to read 1 page so I wasn't able to see a resolution. I will.goggle her and see what comes up. (I do everything via my phone as my laptop has been "dead" for over a year. (I really need to get it fixed).
Nova1998. Great post! I feel like the abduction was planned, but it was just dumb luck they didn't get caught or leave something behind. If Tanko is/was involved, he doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed.
There was Shane out smoking a cigarette late as well as ? Brando on their respective porches. It was after they both went back inside when the abduction allegedly took place. (Or that's what some of us think.)
There was Shane out smoking a cigarette late as well as ? Brando on their respective porches. It was after they both went back inside when the abduction allegedly took place. (Or that's what some of us think.)
Here is a screenshot (from Google Maps) of a great vantage spot, directly across from the LI's home, which may have been used late in the evening after the sun went down to stake out the area and view the driveway, lights, the people coming and going. You most likely could look right down on the home. The foliage, providing cover, was most likely still feasible in early October. Just past the trees in the background would be the direction of the town houses.Under the premise that this was a semi-stranger abduction, he would have had to have known there was a baby there to target by some means (seeing her outside, seeing the mother with her) and would have planned out the area. Just as a side note, the LI home is also near an elementary school, another type of prime location for abductors when selecting and casing out an area. ( Note for admins - If this image is violates any copyright issues, please let me know. Thank you). 
melissasmom
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Messages
- 1,201
- Reaction score
- 6
I tried to find the resolution to this online, didnt see anything (but I didn't try to hard, admittedly. Maybe I will look again today) I do know that she is not in jail and the child appears to be with her, based on her FB postings.
melissasmom
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Messages
- 1,201
- Reaction score
- 6
Ok, this time I found it. She pled guilty to the charges and received a sentence of 6 years, BUT the sentence was suspended (what the heck?), and she will be on probation for 5 years. 
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do
ETA: Ok, think I was confused by the FB pictures of the child. Casenet says that she is ordered to have no contact with any child under the age of 17 without supervision and to write a letter to her child under the terms of her probation. Maybe the pictures I saw were provided to her by the child's foster parents or someone else?
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do
ETA: Ok, think I was confused by the FB pictures of the child. Casenet says that she is ordered to have no contact with any child under the age of 17 without supervision and to write a letter to her child under the terms of her probation. Maybe the pictures I saw were provided to her by the child's foster parents or someone else?
Nova1998- if you get a chance, read askfornina #231 and 233. It is just 1 page back. There is a great map on that too and it shows where the perp and baby were seen. I can see the area you are talking about. Her other post is background info on Tanko aka Jersey.
IHAVENOCLUE
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2011
- Messages
- 22,386
- Reaction score
- 4,999
Neglect to the point of delaying development.... Not to mention avoiding doctor/hospital care...
:thud:
askfornina
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2011
- Messages
- 1,876
- Reaction score
- 33
There is no such thing as too much reading!
You are referring to this quote...
http://www.kansascity.com/news/loca...-answers-in-Baby-Lisa-case.html#storylink=cpy
I would imagine that morning Deborah and Jeremy were thinking of every possible place Lisa could be and the grandparent's house was likely one of the first places they mentioned to police. I don't know the personal details of this situation and I'm not going to speculate, but- court records show that Jeremy's parents filed a motion in court for grandparent's visitation prior to Lisa going missing. Visitation- not custody-- an important distinction. More info on that can be found on this page of the thread about the custody case:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-filed-by-mother-of-JI-s-son-11-14-11/page39
That motion for visitation was dropped by the grandparents after Lisa's disappearance. The grandparents did not speak badly of the parents after the disappearance and CNN's Jim Spellman reported that every member of the Lisa's family he has talked to believe Deb and Jeremy are innocent.*** Lisa's grandparents have spoken with the media on several occasions and have been nothing but supportive of the parents. I don't know what the visitation issue was about, but there is apparently no bad blood there.
***Here is a source for that info:
@jimspellmancnn tweets:
Unfortunately, I don't have the original links for the these tweets. Jim changed his twitter username and they are no longer available.
Here is a link to a websleuths post w/ the tweets:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Dr-Phil-3-February-2012&p=7541617#post7541617
Jim Spellman also discusses the divide within the family regarding Stanton/Tacopina at 0:55 in this video:
http://youtu.be/CZL4OfeZ2zs?t=55s
More on the subject of Stanton/Tacopina later in this post...
Rasleen's lawyer, Dorothy Savory, was her lawyer in the custody dispute with Jeremy going as far back as 2005.
I'm sure Rasleen and Deborah's ex were thoroughly investigated by LE. I don't suspect either of them, because the phone call is key IMO and I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt either of them have connections to Megan Wright and/or Jersey. There has never been any indication of that. If Jersey didn't take Lisa, I think the person who did this has to be an acquaintance of his and/or Megan Wright.
Deborah's cousin knows the benefactor, which is how she became involved. She is a philanthropic woman who seems to be very pro-law enforcement IMO. She is the founder of K9s4Cops, an organization that donates k9s to law enforcement agencies. She is good friends with Bill Stanton and Tacopina.
http://k9s4cops.org/why-we-exist/
http://k9s4cops.org/about/board-members/
These videos are a must-watch in order to understand how Bill Stanton became involved with the case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BipD-shAwZs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIb5Tb0kVM4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31TIP2yWtfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BEakYHhSC8
BS says the benefactor sent him to Kansas City to represent Lisa's interests, not to represent the parents. Bill Stanton came into town believing the parents were probably guilty, and left convinced they were likely innocent. He brought in his team of experts. We still don't know everything this team did to assist. We recently found out Phil Houston is one of the experts BS brought in. Phil Houston is former law enforcement and is apparently very qualified in his field. He interviewed the parents for approx. 8 hours and is aware of more info than the public. (Not privy to police info, of course.) He thinks the parents are likely innocent. Obviously, that isn't enough to convince me of their innocence, but it means something. Some weight should be given to his opinion, IMO. Why not? I think he is trustworthy and seemingly quite intelligent. He spent time on the ground.
I certainly don't think the benefactor would knowingly provide help to baby killers. I think she cares about baby Lisa and wants this case to be solved. I think her connections have absolutely done a lot of good in this case. For example, I don't believe the case would still be getting national coverage 3 years later without BS/benefactor. But, I definitely can't say I agree with everything Bill Stanton and co have contributed. I don't agree with how some things were handled. Without getting into specifics, I think the parents received some unwise advice along the way. I think hiring Tacopina was a mistake. I'm not a fan of his.
In the tweets and video from Jim Spellman I linked above, he reported that some family members were not happy with Tacopina/Stanton, either. It seems, for better or worse, the parents and other family members let them "run the show" for a while. Take a look at this quote from Deborah after Cyndy Short was fired from the case...
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15898355/short-forced-off-the-baby-lisa-case
Another interesting quote...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/1...missing-missouri-girl-refuses-to-divulge-fee/
Here is what Gil Abeyta had to say on the subject:
http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...rking-day-and-night-as-catalyst-for-baby-lisa
If I had a missing loved one, and a wealthy friend of my family member who had lots of qualified former law enforcement connections offered to help me find my missing loved one, I would absolutely accept. Bill Stanton also had worked with national media networks. The family had been inundated with media requests. I would certainly want help from someone who has experience dealing with the media at a time like that. I can see why the help was accepted. I'm just not sure some of the advice they received was wise.
Read more about the benefactor in this thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?163128-Benefactor-Discuss-here
Ok, this time I found it. She pled guilty to the charges and received a sentence of 6 years, BUT the sentence was suspended (what the heck?), and she will be on probation for 5 years.
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchDockets.do
ETA: Ok, think I was confused by the FB pictures of the child. Casenet says that she is ordered to have no contact with any child under the age of 17 without supervision and to write a letter to her child under the terms of her probation. Maybe the pictures I saw were provided to her by the child's foster parents or someone else?
Wow. Thank you Melissasmom
keeponsearching
Wine Drinker
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,451
- Reaction score
- 1,112
I have not followed Lisa case for many years. She has crossed my mine plenty of times though. I never read about the call made to Megans cell phone. I always think of Riley Fox when children go missing from their home in the middle of the night, or Elizabeth Smart. I am going to check out timeline.
I am wondering if the stolen cell phones and outgoing call are related to this presumed abduction. Although the two events happened, one may not be related to the other. To say with certainty, based on the publicly-available information, that the act of stealing the phones is related to the abduction or to the abductor would be leaping to a causal claim without firm evidence. However, the police possibly have much more that they have not released from the tips and calls received along with door-to-door canvassing they did.
There seemed to be quite a bit of withheld information at the beginning regarding who came over and who did what. The fact that one party might change their stories or withhold information still does not make them guilty of the disappearance. That they did so might have been based on other reasons...a fear of having a certain charge laid against them (should drugs have been involved); a worry that child services may try to take the children away; and finally, losing someone on whom you have to rely on for support. All are serious reasons that could weigh in.
What if the phones were stolen by another person who came to the house earlier that night and who saw them on the counter. Someone sees an opportunity and takes it. They leave and go back to their place (the pings were no more than 1/4 to 1/3 of a mile away at any time, I believe, from what I read on a CNN transcript). At 11: 57 AM they attempt to make a call but discover the phone call cannot go through as bills were unpaid. No calls made from the other two? That could be for a variety of reasons. The next he/she finds out in the neighbourhood that LI is gone and so are the phone calls. Then came the unsettling thought..he/she would presumed to be linked to the abduction as well.
Meanwhile, while he/she is making a call at 11:57PM, someone is really breaking into the house to carry out the abduction. This different person locates the child, seizes her, and exits the home, in and out quickly which is the prime goal of abductors. It's possible that he crosses the street and heads into the yards directly across from the home, up the slope, and onto the road where he is seen at approximately 12:15 AM by nearby neighbors carrying the child, and again cutting through the next set of properties to make his way out of the area.
Although I am open to the possibility that the abductor took the phones, it would have meant that he allowed himself a good stretch of time at that property: 11:57PM ..PLUS at least several minutes prior to that (to enter the home, locate the phones, find somewhere quiet to place the call) until roughly 12:15AM (if he cut through the properties in front of LI's house, it would just take a couple of minutes until he was seen), that would mean a large block of time at that property...20- 30 minutes...a huge risk that I am not sure would be feasible to an abductor.
There seemed to be quite a bit of withheld information at the beginning regarding who came over and who did what. The fact that one party might change their stories or withhold information still does not make them guilty of the disappearance. That they did so might have been based on other reasons...a fear of having a certain charge laid against them (should drugs have been involved); a worry that child services may try to take the children away; and finally, losing someone on whom you have to rely on for support. All are serious reasons that could weigh in.
What if the phones were stolen by another person who came to the house earlier that night and who saw them on the counter. Someone sees an opportunity and takes it. They leave and go back to their place (the pings were no more than 1/4 to 1/3 of a mile away at any time, I believe, from what I read on a CNN transcript). At 11: 57 AM they attempt to make a call but discover the phone call cannot go through as bills were unpaid. No calls made from the other two? That could be for a variety of reasons. The next he/she finds out in the neighbourhood that LI is gone and so are the phone calls. Then came the unsettling thought..he/she would presumed to be linked to the abduction as well.
Meanwhile, while he/she is making a call at 11:57PM, someone is really breaking into the house to carry out the abduction. This different person locates the child, seizes her, and exits the home, in and out quickly which is the prime goal of abductors. It's possible that he crosses the street and heads into the yards directly across from the home, up the slope, and onto the road where he is seen at approximately 12:15 AM by nearby neighbors carrying the child, and again cutting through the next set of properties to make his way out of the area.
Although I am open to the possibility that the abductor took the phones, it would have meant that he allowed himself a good stretch of time at that property: 11:57PM ..PLUS at least several minutes prior to that (to enter the home, locate the phones, find somewhere quiet to place the call) until roughly 12:15AM (if he cut through the properties in front of LI's house, it would just take a couple of minutes until he was seen), that would mean a large block of time at that property...20- 30 minutes...a huge risk that I am not sure would be feasible to an abductor.
Nine months after LI disappeared, in June of 2012, there was an attempted abduction in Fredericktown, MO of a ten-year old boy. There were two men in the car...one, the driver, tall and slim (similar to the general appearance of the 12:15AM man, but with longer hair with moustache and goatee), and an older man with greying hair (similar to the general description of the 4:15AM man, but possibly in his 50s.) http://www.kfvs12.com/story/18740798/police-follow-leads-after-attempted-child-abduction-in-fredericktown. There was an earlier attempted abduction in Bonne Terre that May by two men, but the descriptions of those suspects differ.
I found another timeline. KMBC live wire.com. There is nothing much about Jersey and nothing at all about Megan. But......there was an alledged sighting of Lisa on Oct. 5, 2011 with a WM and WF @ Loves gas station located on I 29 and Hiway 169 in ST. JOE MO.driving an older model SUV. Surveillance tape was turned over to LE and their standard response was to say it didn't seem to be a major lead.
I have taken over 20 pages of notes and am pretty well down and out. I believe they were after one person and one person only. Can't believe some of the shenanigans that went on. Well, I will need to sit on this a bit and then maybe put it down in a timeline. Unfortunately, a lot of the referenced articles were no longer available.
askfornina
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2011
- Messages
- 1,876
- Reaction score
- 33
I posted these links upthread already, but just in case you or anyone missed it-this is a collection most articles on the case. It includes a lot of articles that are no longer available online. They are in order by date so it's basically a timeline.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/140592934/Lisa-Irwin-News-Articles
This link has 676 news videos on the case mostly in order by date:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfj0f6PGTrAF4NjTg0l7--A/videos
redheadedgal
Former Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 4,659
- Reaction score
- 104
mary katherine smart saw her sister taken. and evidence was found (footwear) belonging to the man who kidnapped riley. neither of those variables have been proven to exist in this case. fwiw.